Bite-Size 2.0: A Creator Discussion and Advice Thread

[Jenny-Toons]

I'll copy-paste my introduction and answer the question!
Preferred Name: Jenny

Pronouns: She/Her/Hers

Genres you create: Cosmic Horror Romance, Horror, Crime/Thriller

Where you plan to take your writing journey: Welp, right now I've got a list of comics I want to finish in my life-time. There are 42 comics right now, many of them short form. I got my work cut out for me, but I know it's feasible. Actually gonna start on 4 of those short comics for the Webtoons Contest.

Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/Jenny-Toons

I like telling Corny Jokes, tiny animals, and delish foods. I also love me some good story-telling and horror, so expect a bit of that from little ole me.

Been making comics since I was 12, but been online since 2015, so I've come pretty far. I can also chime in on what it's like to have a STEM-based career choice but doing comics as well.

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For me, numbers are people. These are the people who liked my comics, who've commented on my comics, and who saw my comics in a passing glance. When I think of numbers as people, it carries more weight. I realize that hey -- a lot of people care about what I do, but a lot of people also live their lives and understand that I'm human too.

Numbers are very nice to look at, but the weight of seeing them as people, and seeing comments about my stories and theories and questions carries more weight for me. Right now, I'm sitting around 8.5k subs on Webtoons (combining all five of my comics). And I'm cool with that. It would be nice to have 100k or something, but I don't lose my mind over it. I'm just happy to see as many people as I do now reading my work and enjoying it (whether they comment or not).

Kinda shows me that there are plenty of people who like the stories I like, which gives me a good sense of community.

I think the unhealthy part of most people worrying about numbers is just thinking of stats as numbers. Like...disregarding bots and alt accounts -- there are real people with real lives who read my work. Why should I only see them as numbers? It does't sound...nice, you know? It makes me beg the questions "do the people who keep farming for subs actually want to engage with their audience? Or do they just want the big shiny number to look at?"

[KRWright]

@ratique Thank you for pinning the thread!

For me, numbers are people.

This is such a good way of looking at it! You're outlook is actually one that we should all remember.

[Jenny-Toons]

Thanks! I think it's easy to not see the weight of the number when you're only seeing said number on a screen. It's pretty tiny on a screen. But 8.5k people? That's a stadium! And you're on the field, being observed. When you put it in that perspective, it's pretty awesome.

Even 250 or 100 subs is awesome. That's an auditorium! And you're on stage preforming. All of these people are watching. And whether or not they're actively commenting (clapping) doesn't really change that (at least to me). Cuz like, in real life, you're gonna get people who don't clap at events. Doesn't mean they didn't like it.

[vblairehawthorne]

Preferred Name: Blaire Hawthorne
Pronouns: he/him
Genres you create: Horror and Fantasy with LGBTQ+ characters.
Where you plan to take your writing journey: To a point where I can reasonably live off with it. I don't really have a plan. I just write LOL
Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/vblairehawthorne

I like cheese.

Numbers

The anime Bakuman once went in-depth about the topic of having "two types of authors." There, a character said that an author may either be one of the following types: The kind of person who does whatever they want and the type of person who calculates the current meta to make their work even more popular.

I think I'm more in line with the first part wherein I would literally not care about other things as long as I'm writing the things I like. If I want to write it, I would do it, and I would feel happy right away.

However, I would be a hypocrite if I say that numbers never affected me. I would be jealous of those above me, and I would often feel like I am a failure and that I am not good enough when the numbers I produce aren't on par compared to the people around me.

Numbers is a frightening thing, and I am never once a fond friend of it. Heck, I failed most of my math classes! Numbers to me is a necessary evil because people will not bat an eye on you unless you have good enough numbers, but it just kept going on and on and on. It promotes a sense of "grind." If you're at the bottom, it makes you feel sick of not being good enough; if you're at the top, it will stress you up because it makes you want to keep pumping those chapters up to remain at the top. High numbers are never good enough and low numbers will make you feel weak,

The best way that I found in dealing with the negatives of seeing numbers is just to never let it be the goal. Don't let it consume you Write what you want, do what you want, and make what you want. If you think you're not good enough in a numerical sense, that's fine! Some stories grow fast while some take their sweet time. But your work will still touch the soul of someone out there because you did it with joy in mind, not numbers. What I learned in my years of writing online fiction is that numbers mean nothing. Engagement does. If you have a million reads, a million likes, and/or a million subscribers but only a very, very small fraction of them interacting with you, then the numbers mean nothing. In contrast, a book with conventionally low numbers but had an amazing engagement is far better.

What I'm trying to say is that numbers will eat you up unless you have readers out there that will make you feel better. Rushing to get a lot of numbers will make you feel proud, but having an audience that loves and support you and your work will make you feel happy. And "happy" is the goal.

[Hodge]

Preferred Name: Hodge
Pronouns: She/Her
Genres: Fantasy, Action, Romance, BL
Writing Journey: hmmm I suppose I want to create the best comics I can, and also eventually build an audience, money, that sort of thing.

On the topic of numbers, I sort of actively avoid them haha. I felt like they were getting in the way of improving my craft, so I try to just ignore that sort of thing if possible. It tends to just suck away time and get in the way of the creative process.

Oh but I do appreciate the actual people behind numbers, especially since that number is rather low and are often the same people. I hope that even if my number goes up this doesn't change.

[CodeMonkeyArts]

Kicking us off with the first discussion topic for 2.0!

1. I do get some validation from numbers. I like to know the number of people who enjoy my writing and my artwork. It means that there is an audience and that there are people who like seeing what I do and how I improve. I guess it's a visual way of reminding myself that I am liked.

2. Both. I get joy from seeing an increase of subs, likes, followers. However it is a very easy source of frustration; unfortunately, numbers seem objective, and thus there is a natural tendency to compare or measure myself against someone else, whether fairly or unfairly. As much as I try to consider other factors (I haven't been on social media that long, I stopped drawing for a long time, this series has been around forever so of course it has bajillion likes...) the numbers are just so black and white and super hard to ignore. Humans beings tend to remember the negative, even if there is a POSITIVE spin (oh damn, my story that has been out for a year has a lot of likes, weee VS Aww damn, my story only has these many likes versus this one, I suck).

3. It really depends. I choose to care about the stats because it helps me think about what I need to improve, which idea/pitch has a better interest, etc. However, I can also afford not to care because I have my other career and family aspirations. Other folks don't have it that easy and NEED a certain number in order to make a living out of their passion. So I understand that the hustle is a struggle. For me, I'm okay waffling between "Oh yeah this is a good number" and "Ugh lemme me promote this more cause it's not getting exposure". Others...not so much.

[KRWright]

That's a stadium!

I've just realised that I have like 17k or something and now I have performance anxiety....

High numbers are never good enough and low numbers will make you feel weak,

Truth.

What I learned in my years of writing online fiction is that numbers mean nothing. Engagement does.

For real. I have numbers and engagement can be pretty poor. Sometimes, I think the higher your engagement gets, the less people realise how much a comment to say "hey I really liked this!" means.

I sort of actively avoid them haha

I wish I had this mindset.

For me, I'm okay waffling between "Oh yeah this is a good number" and "Ugh lemme me promote this more cause it's not getting exposure".

My life in a sentence.

[vblairehawthorne]

Yes! No matter who you are, how long you've been here, and how big you've gotten, seeing people genuinely loving your work and expressing them on the comments will still always be a cause for celebration. Validation comes best from the words of our readers. Not numbers. Numbers are like crack.

[nathanKmcwilliams]

Ah it's back. Great! One note, if no one remembers, I no longer use the Dragonsparking account name, so no more Dragon. Just Nate will do xD

Anyways on topic. Numbers?

• Just a way to catalogue my progress with fans. I don't have any strong feelings about the numbers themselves.

• Overall, thinking about the numbers comes with a huge dose of apathy. Though when I receive a new sub that makes me happy.

•Sure, there has to be some balance, otherwise getting consumed by the drive to let those numbers define your art. Or, if you care too little, then you might lose interest entirely and leave those who are counting on your art for entertainment in the lurch.

[spadedigsbutts]

Here’s what I put last thread with a few edits!

Preferred Name: Spade

Pronouns: She/her

Genres: Currently I’m working on a Supernatural Mystery and A comedy Fantasy (but almost everything I do is normal mid-high fantasy)

Plans: I just want to make lots of comics and improve in art! I literally just hit my one year anniversary for working in comics in any capacity outside of thinking about doing them so I’m pretty new to this ahahahaaaaaaaa. I have never really written like....a novel or anything before but I really want to try to get into it but don’t especially know where to start! I have one thing I’m thinking of doing as a novel but I’m still working on the story idea..?

Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/spadedigsbutts
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While I know numbers are important and stuff and getting high ones is satisfying, I tend to not take them super seriously? For me they’re just sort of just a gauge of if I’m generally doing okay. Like if I get a subscriber or two a month I’m just like “well someone is enjoying it in some way!” And I must be doing something right (or really Really hilariously wrong!). I’ve always had a very “someone is always better, someone is always worse” Perspective, so to me a number really is just a number, though I do appreciate those who did take the time to give me said number! (Comments> numbers)

[SilverLugia456]

Preferred Name: Silver (I've been called that because of my username SilverLugia456)

Pronouns: She/Her

Genres you create: Mystery, Adventure, Action, Suspense,

Where you plan to take your writing journey:I would like to write Flash Fiction pieces (I've written a few so far but nothing published), I also like to work on scripts for movies and/or shows, short novels / light novels, and also teach as a teacher for English or creative writing.

Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/SilverLugia456

A little about myself, so I have written in many different formats while learning about creative writing for the entertainment industry. So I have narrowed it down to writing light or short novels, scripts for animation, and flash fiction pieces since I have fun writing those pieces.I do have a goal hoping that my Pirate's Chronicles novel reaches 100 subbers I'm almost to 50 so I'm halfway there ^_^

Onto the topic of Numbers

• What numbers mean to me are setting goals, knowing limits and also testing myself to see how much i can change my writing based on certain limits. I've experience this a lot especially when it comes to how different forms of writing may have different number limits, whether those number limits are for characters used or for the number of words used. I have written short flash fiction pieces that needed to be between 300 - 500 words, regular flash fiction pieces about 1000 words, and other pieces that may be longer. I also set personal goals for myself especially when I'm on tapas that my word limit per chapter falls between certain set number values to keep the chapters a bit consistent. Due to my experience I always seem to keep the number amount in mind when it comes to my writing. I find my eyes always travel down to the count just to make sure that I keep track of it.

• Thinking about numbers could bring me either joy or frustration depending on the situation. When I'm limited to writing a full piece that has to be 500 words or less there may be some frustration because for me sometimes I find myself wanting to write more but knowing that if i do I need to cut down a lot of what I write. I've found myself a bit stumped or annoyed at times because no matter how I try to fit a story within those smaller word limits the story never really seemed complete.
  On the other hand I also look at the positive side of having those number limits for myself because it helps me to write more condense and precise details that really bring out the elements in my story. For the longest time when I was in college learning creative writing I would always find myself writing too many words that basically I didn't need. There were details that just went on and those extra words took away from my stories. However over time when I had to write flash fiction pieces or other writing prompts where the words were limited I got to work on that. I learned that I can use just one word or a small phrase of words that will make a bigger impact of a scene I want to convey to the reader instead of two complete sentences that say the same thing in redundancy.

• I'm one that doesn't really focus a lot on book stats because I become more focused on the story. Though I'm not entirely sure about focusing on those stats, I believe there is a healthy balance for it but maybe it may be difficult to obtain that balance. It could affect one negatively or positively depending on how the individual views those numbers. If the numbers are viewed in a negative light then it could become more of a bad weight on someone's shoulders, however if someone views the stats in a positive light it becomes a driving force that helps them with their motivation. I think the balance might be where numbers or stats could be viewed both ways but when it is there is a more positive outlook for those stats or numbers.

It was fun answering these questions and I like the idea of this thread as well. ^_^

[Iris-Grimoire]

Hello again!

• Numbers are people that didn't just keep on scrolling, and actually gave it a try, even if they're not going to stay. I get a lot of validation, mostly self inflicted;;
• Some frustration, and joy when it's unexpected, plus some bad self esteem if it's low in an episode day, and I might get too bummed out looking at them.
• There is, though it's a constant fight against 'you're not doing as good as your peers'. Comparison is inevitable even if it's misleading and rarely helpful.

[Jenny-Toons]

I've just realised that I have like 17k or something and now I have performance anxiety....

Hehehe, that's kinda way I'm definitely ok with where I am right now. I'm more of an introverted person, so while I enjoy speaking with people and answering questions, I don't think I'm fully ready to get 100+ comments for an update (if I get to that stage). Which is perfectly fine for me!

And I always think that's another interesting thing to think about. While we may want a lot of subs and comments on our works, are we truly ever ready to deal with such a large audience? I feel that's just as overwhelming as having a smaller audience.

[ivanskilling]

(Copy-pasting from before!)

Preferred Name: Ivan (pen name)
Pronouns: He / Him (I'm female but chose a male pen name for marketing reasons. So it would be weird to call she/her with that pen name )
Genres you create: Action, Scifi, Mystery, Drama (Romance as subplot)
Where you plan to take your writing journey: Would love to have my novels published! But a more achievable goal is to gain more readers and earn a little side money.
Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/ivanskilling

• I agree with what @Jenny-Toons said about what numbers represent! It makes me happy to see that my novels have at least been seen by a growing number of people.

• Most of the time, numbers bring me joy. To me, any subscriber, like, comment gained is always good. Each time, I reach a new goal, I strive for the next number goal. I personally love thinking about how to increase visibility and reach of my novels! Frustration is bound to happen sometimes if I see another story get high numbers without having actual good content (e.g., 50 shades of grey ). But the frustration passes.

• I think the balance is struck if book stats is only one of your goals and source of motivation. The main motivation/goal should be more about being satisfied with what you've created and to feel pride in it. Seeing other people comment and enjoy your works, even if it's only one, is also more important.

[ratscout]

Preferred Name: Ratscout
Pronouns: She/her
Genres you create: Fantasy, romance, surprisingly horror.
Where you plan to take your writing journey: Honestly, I'd really just like more engagement with my stories. It's a simple and hopefully achievable goal. I'd also like to help bring hidden gems to the attention of staff on Tapas because I feel like other unknowns are my kindred. XD Traditional publishing is the American dream, but I ain't getting there any time soon.
Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/ratscout

I dunno, it's not so much the numbers that mean a lot to me, it's more the interaction that matters to me. On some days, I feel pretty disheartened when I realized I've written 140 chapters of my story and then I look on the front page and I realize a story with only 20 chapters has like, triple the likes and comments that mine has. It kind of automatically makes me feel like... I'm not a good writer? Haha. But it also somehow makes me more tenacious, like, "That's it, the fact that I got no interaction after putting that chapter up just makes me want to upload another as soon as possible".XD I guess I would say I do get a lot of validation from comments/likes, but continuing my story isn't contingent on getting them. I will say on day that I'm feeling really blue about my... Small numbers, even just one comment can cheer me up. I really just wish more people would comment/like.

Lately, numbers have been a great source of frustration for me. I dunno what it was about that Tapas update, but I swear it seems to have killed the visibility of my novel even more. XD I'm sure it'll fade pretty quickly though and I'll go back to not caring about numbers again soon though (that's another weird thing about me. On someday I care about them and on others I don't).

I do think there's a healthy balance about caring/not caring about stats. On the one hand, that desire to build an audience and gain that interaction I so sorely want makes me want to keep at it and keep up the pace of writing my novel more than anything. On the other hand, on some days, it really does make me feel blue that so few people take an interest in my story that it can stall progress. If I could keep my tenacity and shoo away my blues, that would be the best balance.

The darned Corona Virus doesn't help. It gives me way too much time to think about stats. XD I just want to go back to physical work so I can get my validation from there instead LOL. Working remotely is... Not nearly as validating.

[jensrichard77]

Re-joining the gang.

Preferred Name: Jens Richard
Pronouns: He/Him/They/Them/Blue
Genres you create: Comedy but try to do some serious stuff too.
Most known for ”Blue Life” and ”The Last BL Comic”

Where you plan to take your writing journey:
The become the ones that Tapas is interviewing.
Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/jensrichard77

[jensrichard77]

Numbers are important to me. They are the reflection from the readers.
What do they like.

In the beginning I was not that impressed by simple page counts, but the numbers where users have taken an action in giving a like or a comment.

My ”The Last BL Comic” has (in my standard) big numbers in page views and subs. But not that much in likes and comments contra ”Blue Life” where there are lesser subscribers but a lot of likes and interactions from the readers.

I feel more about my work that gives more interaction and I feel more connected and have more fun with Blue Life. But as my Boy Love kind of speaks another language in numbers I feel more responsible to continue the work. Not because the user is giving comments or feedback directly, but because the silent numbers tell me that there are people reading this and more and more keeps coming for some strange reason.
I must have done something right and must continue.

[UrMom]

I'll just copy/paste most if the intro from the previous thread.

Preferred Name: Dani or Copper

Pronouns: They/Them, He/Him

Genres you create: Psychological drama, slice-of-life

Where you plan to take your writing journey: Finishing my comic and self-publishing for now. After a break I'll probably start on some much larger fantasy, horror and sci-fi projects I've had on the back burner.

Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/Bloomer

Uuuh I like horror movies, medical and earth science, Psychology, animals, food and drawing.
Only been working in comics since 2009, but didn't get hardcore into it until I started my current project in 2015-2016.

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• Numbers don't really mean much of anything to me, but I don't really see them as numbers so much as just people checking out and/or enjoying my comic. I admit to sometimes getting a little sad when a page doesn't do so well with views and interaction, but it's not the end of the world. Many of my readers view my comic in 5-2 page bulks so there will be update days when TGtaHR won't get much action.
  Sub wise, I'm just surprised I even have subs, I was expecting dead air. My comic is soooo not most people's cup of tea, so the fact that there are people wanting to suffer through my character suffering is nothing short of amazing.

• I kinda already answered this one. While I do get sad about a page not doing well sometimes, overall numbers don't make me feel much of anything. You kinda have to not care, people are ever change, evolving and growing. Even if they liked your work at one point that doesn't mean they always will, and while it's super awesome when someone sticks with your story from beginning to end, there's nothing wrong with them moving on.
  In short, it doesn't make me feel either or since losing and gaining readers is a natural part of the webcomic process.

• Yeah, I guess so. To me stats only really matter if you're trying to make a living off your work, it's totally understandable to care about getting ad revenue from views or income from sales. Although you shouldn't let it take over your life, if you start obsessing your passion may start turning into an obligation.
  If you're not planning on making money off your work then numbers are kind of meaningless, they don't really get you anything other than possible validation, which I find meaningful interaction to be much more valuable than a sub or view count in that case. Although at the same time if you are striving to improve and do your best, if you're not working on a super niche story, consistently low numbers might mean there are things you do better?

So I guess a good balance is to care enough to be proactive if your goal is for your story to be productive, but not so much it runs your life. People are all different, some come and go, some stay, other may be disinterested entirely. You can't really control that, so there's not much point on being super focused on the numbers.

[Jophiel]

Preferred Name: Anne or Jiji
Pronouns: she/her
Genres you create: It's a mixed bag-- I think it falls under regular fantasy mostly. Atleast i aim to- maybe romance as well.
Where you plan to take your writing journey: Nothing much, I just wish to be able to overcome my fears and anxiety in posting overall. I'd say it would be a big leap for me already if I managed to publish a comic and complete it online, regardless of how it could be received.
Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/anne-ziel

1.) I feel like I can feel validated by numbers since they're also partly a reason why I try and post own or created content. To share it with others. I'm not a v engaging person so they make me feel better or atleast make it feel like it was worth posting in a sense. Sometimes I get happy about getting a lot since its a nice surprise and other times I'm a bit indifferent.

2.) it brings me both haha;; I try not to let it frustrate me that much though I must confess I find it hard to not be a little disappointed when something gets lower traction/attention than usual so it badly affected me in handling art accounts offsite.

Might reword later for grammar and edit.

[joannekwan]

Name: Joanne
Pronouns: she/her also cool with they/them
Genres: Drama, Romance. subgenres: supernatural, historical fantasy, contemporary
Plans: Ideally I would want to start self-publishing if querying with traditional publishers don't work out.
Link: https://tapas.io/dashalutris

Numbers spark joy for me, it equates to people actually seeing what I've created. So I do hold them in a solid regard.

The only frustration numbers bring me is when I'm not seeing enough of them. Like if I put out an illustration that I'm proud of but it only gets 3 likes on twitter lol.
On the other end, I don't think I'd ever get performance anxiety if my numbers explode. I'd just be like 'holy shit' and keep truckin' on.

I think there is a healthy balance of caring about numbers, especially if your goal IS to grow your audience. If you're stagnating or on a decline, it may be time to reevaluate what you're doing and see if you can't strategize a new way of marketing or examine your work itself. BUT I can't worry over numbers TOO much lest I just crumple after seeing how well others are doing on so and so sites, so I have to stay in my own lane in that regard and just have faith in my work and remember to love what I'm putting forth into the world.