Bite-Size 2.0: A Creator Discussion and Advice Thread

[CodeMonkeyArts]

Kicking us off with the first discussion topic for 2.0!

1. I do get some validation from numbers. I like to know the number of people who enjoy my writing and my artwork. It means that there is an audience and that there are people who like seeing what I do and how I improve. I guess it's a visual way of reminding myself that I am liked.

2. Both. I get joy from seeing an increase of subs, likes, followers. However it is a very easy source of frustration; unfortunately, numbers seem objective, and thus there is a natural tendency to compare or measure myself against someone else, whether fairly or unfairly. As much as I try to consider other factors (I haven't been on social media that long, I stopped drawing for a long time, this series has been around forever so of course it has bajillion likes...) the numbers are just so black and white and super hard to ignore. Humans beings tend to remember the negative, even if there is a POSITIVE spin (oh damn, my story that has been out for a year has a lot of likes, weee VS Aww damn, my story only has these many likes versus this one, I suck).

3. It really depends. I choose to care about the stats because it helps me think about what I need to improve, which idea/pitch has a better interest, etc. However, I can also afford not to care because I have my other career and family aspirations. Other folks don't have it that easy and NEED a certain number in order to make a living out of their passion. So I understand that the hustle is a struggle. For me, I'm okay waffling between "Oh yeah this is a good number" and "Ugh lemme me promote this more cause it's not getting exposure". Others...not so much.

[KRWright]

That's a stadium!

I've just realised that I have like 17k or something and now I have performance anxiety....

High numbers are never good enough and low numbers will make you feel weak,

Truth.

What I learned in my years of writing online fiction is that numbers mean nothing. Engagement does.

For real. I have numbers and engagement can be pretty poor. Sometimes, I think the higher your engagement gets, the less people realise how much a comment to say "hey I really liked this!" means.

I sort of actively avoid them haha

I wish I had this mindset.

For me, I'm okay waffling between "Oh yeah this is a good number" and "Ugh lemme me promote this more cause it's not getting exposure".

My life in a sentence.

[vblairehawthorne]

Yes! No matter who you are, how long you've been here, and how big you've gotten, seeing people genuinely loving your work and expressing them on the comments will still always be a cause for celebration. Validation comes best from the words of our readers. Not numbers. Numbers are like crack.

[nathanKmcwilliams]

Ah it's back. Great! One note, if no one remembers, I no longer use the Dragonsparking account name, so no more Dragon. Just Nate will do xD

Anyways on topic. Numbers?

• Just a way to catalogue my progress with fans. I don't have any strong feelings about the numbers themselves.

• Overall, thinking about the numbers comes with a huge dose of apathy. Though when I receive a new sub that makes me happy.

•Sure, there has to be some balance, otherwise getting consumed by the drive to let those numbers define your art. Or, if you care too little, then you might lose interest entirely and leave those who are counting on your art for entertainment in the lurch.

[spadedigsbutts]

Here’s what I put last thread with a few edits!

Preferred Name: Spade

Pronouns: She/her

Genres: Currently I’m working on a Supernatural Mystery and A comedy Fantasy (but almost everything I do is normal mid-high fantasy)

Plans: I just want to make lots of comics and improve in art! I literally just hit my one year anniversary for working in comics in any capacity outside of thinking about doing them so I’m pretty new to this ahahahaaaaaaaa. I have never really written like....a novel or anything before but I really want to try to get into it but don’t especially know where to start! I have one thing I’m thinking of doing as a novel but I’m still working on the story idea..?

Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/spadedigsbutts
————————————————————————————

While I know numbers are important and stuff and getting high ones is satisfying, I tend to not take them super seriously? For me they’re just sort of just a gauge of if I’m generally doing okay. Like if I get a subscriber or two a month I’m just like “well someone is enjoying it in some way!” And I must be doing something right (or really Really hilariously wrong!). I’ve always had a very “someone is always better, someone is always worse” Perspective, so to me a number really is just a number, though I do appreciate those who did take the time to give me said number! (Comments> numbers)

[SilverLugia456]

Preferred Name: Silver (I've been called that because of my username SilverLugia456)

Pronouns: She/Her

Genres you create: Mystery, Adventure, Action, Suspense,

Where you plan to take your writing journey:I would like to write Flash Fiction pieces (I've written a few so far but nothing published), I also like to work on scripts for movies and/or shows, short novels / light novels, and also teach as a teacher for English or creative writing.

Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/SilverLugia456

A little about myself, so I have written in many different formats while learning about creative writing for the entertainment industry. So I have narrowed it down to writing light or short novels, scripts for animation, and flash fiction pieces since I have fun writing those pieces.I do have a goal hoping that my Pirate's Chronicles novel reaches 100 subbers I'm almost to 50 so I'm halfway there ^_^

Onto the topic of Numbers

• What numbers mean to me are setting goals, knowing limits and also testing myself to see how much i can change my writing based on certain limits. I've experience this a lot especially when it comes to how different forms of writing may have different number limits, whether those number limits are for characters used or for the number of words used. I have written short flash fiction pieces that needed to be between 300 - 500 words, regular flash fiction pieces about 1000 words, and other pieces that may be longer. I also set personal goals for myself especially when I'm on tapas that my word limit per chapter falls between certain set number values to keep the chapters a bit consistent. Due to my experience I always seem to keep the number amount in mind when it comes to my writing. I find my eyes always travel down to the count just to make sure that I keep track of it.

• Thinking about numbers could bring me either joy or frustration depending on the situation. When I'm limited to writing a full piece that has to be 500 words or less there may be some frustration because for me sometimes I find myself wanting to write more but knowing that if i do I need to cut down a lot of what I write. I've found myself a bit stumped or annoyed at times because no matter how I try to fit a story within those smaller word limits the story never really seemed complete.
  On the other hand I also look at the positive side of having those number limits for myself because it helps me to write more condense and precise details that really bring out the elements in my story. For the longest time when I was in college learning creative writing I would always find myself writing too many words that basically I didn't need. There were details that just went on and those extra words took away from my stories. However over time when I had to write flash fiction pieces or other writing prompts where the words were limited I got to work on that. I learned that I can use just one word or a small phrase of words that will make a bigger impact of a scene I want to convey to the reader instead of two complete sentences that say the same thing in redundancy.

• I'm one that doesn't really focus a lot on book stats because I become more focused on the story. Though I'm not entirely sure about focusing on those stats, I believe there is a healthy balance for it but maybe it may be difficult to obtain that balance. It could affect one negatively or positively depending on how the individual views those numbers. If the numbers are viewed in a negative light then it could become more of a bad weight on someone's shoulders, however if someone views the stats in a positive light it becomes a driving force that helps them with their motivation. I think the balance might be where numbers or stats could be viewed both ways but when it is there is a more positive outlook for those stats or numbers.

It was fun answering these questions and I like the idea of this thread as well. ^_^

[Iris-Grimoire]

Hello again!

• Numbers are people that didn't just keep on scrolling, and actually gave it a try, even if they're not going to stay. I get a lot of validation, mostly self inflicted;;
• Some frustration, and joy when it's unexpected, plus some bad self esteem if it's low in an episode day, and I might get too bummed out looking at them.
• There is, though it's a constant fight against 'you're not doing as good as your peers'. Comparison is inevitable even if it's misleading and rarely helpful.

[Jenny-Toons]

I've just realised that I have like 17k or something and now I have performance anxiety....

Hehehe, that's kinda way I'm definitely ok with where I am right now. I'm more of an introverted person, so while I enjoy speaking with people and answering questions, I don't think I'm fully ready to get 100+ comments for an update (if I get to that stage). Which is perfectly fine for me!

And I always think that's another interesting thing to think about. While we may want a lot of subs and comments on our works, are we truly ever ready to deal with such a large audience? I feel that's just as overwhelming as having a smaller audience.

[ivanskilling]

(Copy-pasting from before!)

Preferred Name: Ivan (pen name)
Pronouns: He / Him (I'm female but chose a male pen name for marketing reasons. So it would be weird to call she/her with that pen name )
Genres you create: Action, Scifi, Mystery, Drama (Romance as subplot)
Where you plan to take your writing journey: Would love to have my novels published! But a more achievable goal is to gain more readers and earn a little side money.
Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/ivanskilling

• I agree with what @Jenny-Toons said about what numbers represent! It makes me happy to see that my novels have at least been seen by a growing number of people.

• Most of the time, numbers bring me joy. To me, any subscriber, like, comment gained is always good. Each time, I reach a new goal, I strive for the next number goal. I personally love thinking about how to increase visibility and reach of my novels! Frustration is bound to happen sometimes if I see another story get high numbers without having actual good content (e.g., 50 shades of grey ). But the frustration passes.

• I think the balance is struck if book stats is only one of your goals and source of motivation. The main motivation/goal should be more about being satisfied with what you've created and to feel pride in it. Seeing other people comment and enjoy your works, even if it's only one, is also more important.

[ratscout]

Preferred Name: Ratscout
Pronouns: She/her
Genres you create: Fantasy, romance, surprisingly horror.
Where you plan to take your writing journey: Honestly, I'd really just like more engagement with my stories. It's a simple and hopefully achievable goal. I'd also like to help bring hidden gems to the attention of staff on Tapas because I feel like other unknowns are my kindred. XD Traditional publishing is the American dream, but I ain't getting there any time soon.
Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/ratscout

I dunno, it's not so much the numbers that mean a lot to me, it's more the interaction that matters to me. On some days, I feel pretty disheartened when I realized I've written 140 chapters of my story and then I look on the front page and I realize a story with only 20 chapters has like, triple the likes and comments that mine has. It kind of automatically makes me feel like... I'm not a good writer? Haha. But it also somehow makes me more tenacious, like, "That's it, the fact that I got no interaction after putting that chapter up just makes me want to upload another as soon as possible".XD I guess I would say I do get a lot of validation from comments/likes, but continuing my story isn't contingent on getting them. I will say on day that I'm feeling really blue about my... Small numbers, even just one comment can cheer me up. I really just wish more people would comment/like.

Lately, numbers have been a great source of frustration for me. I dunno what it was about that Tapas update, but I swear it seems to have killed the visibility of my novel even more. XD I'm sure it'll fade pretty quickly though and I'll go back to not caring about numbers again soon though (that's another weird thing about me. On someday I care about them and on others I don't).

I do think there's a healthy balance about caring/not caring about stats. On the one hand, that desire to build an audience and gain that interaction I so sorely want makes me want to keep at it and keep up the pace of writing my novel more than anything. On the other hand, on some days, it really does make me feel blue that so few people take an interest in my story that it can stall progress. If I could keep my tenacity and shoo away my blues, that would be the best balance.

The darned Corona Virus doesn't help. It gives me way too much time to think about stats. XD I just want to go back to physical work so I can get my validation from there instead LOL. Working remotely is... Not nearly as validating.

[jensrichard77]

Re-joining the gang.

Preferred Name: Jens Richard
Pronouns: He/Him/They/Them/Blue
Genres you create: Comedy but try to do some serious stuff too.
Most known for ”Blue Life” and ”The Last BL Comic”

Where you plan to take your writing journey:
The become the ones that Tapas is interviewing.
Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/jensrichard77

[jensrichard77]

Numbers are important to me. They are the reflection from the readers.
What do they like.

In the beginning I was not that impressed by simple page counts, but the numbers where users have taken an action in giving a like or a comment.

My ”The Last BL Comic” has (in my standard) big numbers in page views and subs. But not that much in likes and comments contra ”Blue Life” where there are lesser subscribers but a lot of likes and interactions from the readers.

I feel more about my work that gives more interaction and I feel more connected and have more fun with Blue Life. But as my Boy Love kind of speaks another language in numbers I feel more responsible to continue the work. Not because the user is giving comments or feedback directly, but because the silent numbers tell me that there are people reading this and more and more keeps coming for some strange reason.
I must have done something right and must continue.

[UrMom]

I'll just copy/paste most if the intro from the previous thread.

Preferred Name: Dani or Copper

Pronouns: They/Them, He/Him

Genres you create: Psychological drama, slice-of-life

Where you plan to take your writing journey: Finishing my comic and self-publishing for now. After a break I'll probably start on some much larger fantasy, horror and sci-fi projects I've had on the back burner.

Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/Bloomer

Uuuh I like horror movies, medical and earth science, Psychology, animals, food and drawing.
Only been working in comics since 2009, but didn't get hardcore into it until I started my current project in 2015-2016.

---

• Numbers don't really mean much of anything to me, but I don't really see them as numbers so much as just people checking out and/or enjoying my comic. I admit to sometimes getting a little sad when a page doesn't do so well with views and interaction, but it's not the end of the world. Many of my readers view my comic in 5-2 page bulks so there will be update days when TGtaHR won't get much action.
  Sub wise, I'm just surprised I even have subs, I was expecting dead air. My comic is soooo not most people's cup of tea, so the fact that there are people wanting to suffer through my character suffering is nothing short of amazing.

• I kinda already answered this one. While I do get sad about a page not doing well sometimes, overall numbers don't make me feel much of anything. You kinda have to not care, people are ever change, evolving and growing. Even if they liked your work at one point that doesn't mean they always will, and while it's super awesome when someone sticks with your story from beginning to end, there's nothing wrong with them moving on.
  In short, it doesn't make me feel either or since losing and gaining readers is a natural part of the webcomic process.

• Yeah, I guess so. To me stats only really matter if you're trying to make a living off your work, it's totally understandable to care about getting ad revenue from views or income from sales. Although you shouldn't let it take over your life, if you start obsessing your passion may start turning into an obligation.
  If you're not planning on making money off your work then numbers are kind of meaningless, they don't really get you anything other than possible validation, which I find meaningful interaction to be much more valuable than a sub or view count in that case. Although at the same time if you are striving to improve and do your best, if you're not working on a super niche story, consistently low numbers might mean there are things you do better?

So I guess a good balance is to care enough to be proactive if your goal is for your story to be productive, but not so much it runs your life. People are all different, some come and go, some stay, other may be disinterested entirely. You can't really control that, so there's not much point on being super focused on the numbers.

[Jophiel]

Preferred Name: Anne or Jiji
Pronouns: she/her
Genres you create: It's a mixed bag-- I think it falls under regular fantasy mostly. Atleast i aim to- maybe romance as well.
Where you plan to take your writing journey: Nothing much, I just wish to be able to overcome my fears and anxiety in posting overall. I'd say it would be a big leap for me already if I managed to publish a comic and complete it online, regardless of how it could be received.
Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/anne-ziel

1.) I feel like I can feel validated by numbers since they're also partly a reason why I try and post own or created content. To share it with others. I'm not a v engaging person so they make me feel better or atleast make it feel like it was worth posting in a sense. Sometimes I get happy about getting a lot since its a nice surprise and other times I'm a bit indifferent.

2.) it brings me both haha;; I try not to let it frustrate me that much though I must confess I find it hard to not be a little disappointed when something gets lower traction/attention than usual so it badly affected me in handling art accounts offsite.

Might reword later for grammar and edit.

[joannekwan]

Name: Joanne
Pronouns: she/her also cool with they/them
Genres: Drama, Romance. subgenres: supernatural, historical fantasy, contemporary
Plans: Ideally I would want to start self-publishing if querying with traditional publishers don't work out.
Link: https://tapas.io/dashalutris

Numbers spark joy for me, it equates to people actually seeing what I've created. So I do hold them in a solid regard.

The only frustration numbers bring me is when I'm not seeing enough of them. Like if I put out an illustration that I'm proud of but it only gets 3 likes on twitter lol.
On the other end, I don't think I'd ever get performance anxiety if my numbers explode. I'd just be like 'holy shit' and keep truckin' on.

I think there is a healthy balance of caring about numbers, especially if your goal IS to grow your audience. If you're stagnating or on a decline, it may be time to reevaluate what you're doing and see if you can't strategize a new way of marketing or examine your work itself. BUT I can't worry over numbers TOO much lest I just crumple after seeing how well others are doing on so and so sites, so I have to stay in my own lane in that regard and just have faith in my work and remember to love what I'm putting forth into the world.

[Kaixn]

Preferred Name: Kaixn
Pronouns: Any is cool! (I like the anonymity of not sharing my gender online : D )
Genres you create: Comedy
Where you plan to take your writing journey: I really want to create webcomics that make people laugh and make them happy! (I know that's corny, but I love reading webcomics so much, they really brighten up my day, so I would like to pass it on)
Link to Tapas Account: https://tapas.io/Kaixn

I think I 100% receive validation from numbers haha. I really want people to like my stuff, and to get feedback from others, and numbers is a part of that. But I don't have much followers at all, I'm doing my best to promote myself and stuff, but it's really hard! I give a lot of props to creators who are good at marketing themselves.

Currently frustration, because I have 5 subscribes and have been posting for a month. I'm thinking I might have to start a new story, or do a rewrite of my comic, because I'm thinking it isn't really connecting with people, and that's really important to me! ^^ At the same time I am working on not caring so much!

Yeah I totally think there is a balance. I think you liking your own work is most important. And if there is something you really truly want to do in your heart then I think you should go for it! Try and increase your numbers, but don't let it negatively effect you, I guess?

[darthmongoose]

Yay! Bitesize is back!

Seems like my Bio is already there so let's just jump in!

• To me, for better or worse, numbers represent hard evidence that my work is a viable product. Maybe it's because my day jobs for the past few years have generally involved monitoring the analytics from a creative product (ie. a games and books) and agonising over KPIs (Key Performance Indicators: Basically a solid number of something like units sold or a percentage of clicks on an ad that your aiming for) with weekly data meetings. I've been trained to think of the numbers the same way. I have other achievements from my time in print comics, like my work is actually in print, I've done a book signing in a Forbidden Planet, which I doubt a lot of other people on the site have achieved... but that doesn't matter on Tapas. Only the numbers matter. If I want to pitch a Tapas premium, I need 2000 bookmarks; it's both fair and unfair in its own way.

• Eghhhhh... it's a mixture. I like seeing my number go up, but since the genres aren't equal in terms of effort or quality to performance, it can be a big source of frustration too. Sometimes it's hard not to think, "what the hell!? I'm a published creator, I've placed in national competitions, I've had my work praised by legends of the comics world and I can't get a few bookmarks on this one little platform!?" But... Well, that doesn't help me get anywhere. The numbers are what they are and I should use them as a positive tool and look at where I've had a good response and how I could build on that rather than dwelling on what I don't have.

• Yes, I think there can be. I definitely advise against trying to artificially push your number up just to see it go up with sub-for-sub, which not only has very little impact on your work's growth or visibility, leading to the number going up with no correlating audience engagement and an ultimately empty feeling. I think that it's worth playing the long game sometimes. The work you're doing now might not actually be "The big one", even if you thought it was your magnum opus, so treat it as a learning and data-gathering experience. Pay attention to what does make your numbers go up, but keep a mindset of "well, there's always next time!" and "That was not the result I expected, I'm going to apply this knowledge elsewhere". Even the top pros make works they really care about and fail to get the response they wanted.

[KRWright]

Reading through replies, I can see that people have a nuanced relationship with the numbers attached to their work. Feelings of pride, imposter syndrome, inadequacy, joy- a whole spectrum of human emotion there.

I guess a follow up question would be this:

If you woke up tomorrow, and Tapas no longer displayed the numbers of views, likes, subs etc., do you think this would be good or bad?

In this hypothetical you still will get notifications for people doing these things, you’ll still be able to see trends up or down - but without hard number metrics attached.

[ivanskilling]

That's an interesting question!

Hmm that's sort of similar to the numbers shown on our dashboard in terms of the trends. Personally, it just means I would code up my own script to calculate the numbers myself.

I like to understand my numbers - is the influx due to something I did via advertisement, if so what is it so I can repeat it? Or is the downward trend because of exams month or something I posted? When my novels gets on Staff Picks, how much is the rise in numbers? What should be my goal for numbers by the time I reach the middle of my novel? To me, all of that is fun and important.

[darthmongoose]

If you woke up tomorrow, and Tapas no longer displayed the numbers of views, likes, subs etc., do you think this would be good or bad?

It's hard to say because the bookmark numbers are so hard-coded into unlocking things on the site right now (100 to unlock ads, 250 to unlock ink, 2000 to pitch for Premium). You even get a little bar tracking your progress on your dashboard until you reach 250.
I think the numbers being removed might have a positive impact on happiness for some people, particularly those who would be perfectly happy just making stuff as a hobby if they didn't have the numbers hanging over them putting an unwanted numerical value on their performance at something they would just be doing for fun if it wasn't there.

BUT for people aiming to use the platform in a more professional capacity, the lack of transparency from having those hard numbers, I think would feel very frustrating. It would be hard to track performance of particular themes, update times or days and exactly what the impact might be of trending, getting a staff pick etc. The worst case scenario would be creators feeling like the staff are deliberately fiddling with the rankings to keep certain comics or creators down and boost others, creating a sense of unfairness.

Honestly if the system didn't unlock per-page numbers and analytics until you're over 100 or maybe even 250 subs, I think that would potentially be fine. I don't think having exact numbers below that is incredibly useful because you don't have a large enough reader-base to really track trends and differentiate them from random blips anyway. Plus if your comic can't get up to 250, it probably means you should be focusing on improving big things like the general audience appeal, readability and presentation of your story, not getting distracted obsessing over small numerical changes. Kinda like when Bruce Lee said "It's like a finger pointing at the moon. Don't focus on the finger, or you'll miss all the heavenly beauty."