Bodytypes and how it affects fighting

[DiegoPalacios]

That`s a really good point, bone and muscle density are key factors in combat.

Now i really want to see a Hulk vs Fabio fight. XD

[skicoak]

In my youth as an athletic endomorph, in both real and choreographed combat, it should be noted that we're more often the cats who soak up physical damage the best. We're prone to fight styles that utilize that advantage in direct combat. Accepting we're going to take damage to get inside range/cut angles then holding the bulk of the fight inside a "phone booth".

One of the least cinematic approaches to combat, it often gets overlooked.

In the combat sports, it's the kind of fighter that promoters hate. Turning bouts into either dirty boxing/ground games or just faster opponents just trying to out point the endomorph to a victory.

UFC fighters like Daniel Cormier and Roy Nelson, boxers like George Foreman and Butterbean and specialists like Mick Foley and Sammo Hung are your spokesmen.

[DiegoPalacios]

In my youth as an athletic endomorph, in both real and choreographed combat, it should be noted that we're more often the cats who soak up physical damage the best. We're prone to fight styles that utilize that advantage in direct combat. Accepting we're going to take damage to get inside range/cut angles then holding the bulk of the fight inside a "phone booth".

One of the least cinematic approaches to combat, it often gets overlooked.

But when they land a knock out it`s spectacular

If i had to write an endomorph fighting scene i would play with the tension and build up towards those game changing hits. Also i would embrace the tactical side by getting the endomorph figuring out how to trick or provoke their opponent into making a mistake that leads to one of those heavy hits or punch trades.

[IdiotWithPencil]

In my youth as an athletic endomorph, in both real and choreographed combat, it should be noted that we're more often the cats who soak up physical damage the best. We're prone to fight styles that utilize that advantage in direct combat. Accepting we're going to take damage to get inside range/cut angles then holding the bulk of the fight inside a "phone booth".

If I'm not mistaken in boxing that's called a slugger, they hit hard and get hit hard.

would recommend Hajime no Ippo if you want to see this fighting style shine =D

Also i would embrace the tactical side by getting the endomorph figuring out how to trick or provoke their opponent into making a mistake that leads to one of those heavy hits or punch trades.

again Hajime no Ippo if you want to see this in action or need some inspiration

[SleepingPoppy]

I just saw this yesterday, and it fits pretty nicely with whats being said! Though its based on comments about gender, the actual explanation by the youtuber is focused on things like height, weight, and strength, and how weapon fighting (particularly swords) affects that.

Really cool topic @DiegoPalacios , I don't have anything to add myself, as I lack the skill, but I really liked reading your insight!

[TheGentleArtist]

I love Shadiversity; this video does help to give out pointers.

[amortelito]

Yes! The body type makes a huge difference. I have been obsessively watching The man from U.N.C.L.E. during the quarantine I want to point out the HUGE difference between the TV show Illya and the 2015 movie version.

TV Illya
Petite, lithe, agile, very good at gymnastics.
Moves like a cat and uses his speed and judo moves to overpower bigger opponents.

Movie Ilya
Very tall, muscular, very strong and fast.
He seems to use his brute force most of the time. Gifted superhuman athlete.

So, they are supposed to be the same character. But the mere selection of body type they are not even close to be similar.
TV Illya is an adorable angelic smol bean who has to use his martial arts training, aerial kicks, and smart tricks to fight the opponents. I'm not saying he is weak, I say that he has force proportionate to his frame.

While Movie Illya can stop a car with his bare hands and overpower a big man in seconds. He is the tallest man in the room and just by looking at him, it's intimidating (dashingly handsome too).
I can't picture Movie Illya performing "cat burlgar" jobs that were so iconic in the original show.
They are two completely different people sharing a name and nationality because the changes to me are too dramatic. Like the 2015 is literally the opposite.

[IdiotWithPencil]

this is actually something most author miss when it comes to weapon combats, weapons turn combat to mostly skill-based fighting, while martial arts and unarmed combat the strongest and quickest to act wins ( MMA basically proves this) weapon combat is really 99% one hit and you are dead like this

(sousei no taiga for anyone wondering)

so I would love to see people use this thinking more when writing fight scenes instead of the old MEGA GIANT SWING WINS

[DasIstWunderblyat]

Probably also what kind or type of weapon you can use.

It just irks me off when seeing tiny ass skinny people with no muscle mass whatsoever having a big fucking sword/gun as a weapon, especially if there is no "it's magic" or "the weapon is made from nano-something technology that it's very light."

[WriterLinXiaolong]

15m long greatsword, 1k kgs heavy greatsword.

Yes, I've read novels with such description 🤣🤣🤣

On another note, height also factors the kind of weapons you can use. Some weapons, no matter how skillful you are, you probably can't use it to its full potential. Rather than helping, it'll just be a burden instead.

I always take note of this when creating a character. For example, with Lin Xiao's build, he will not be able to fight properly if he were to wield a glaive. A spear would still be fine, but any heavier, he'll pass 🤣

[Snickerdoodles]

I hate weapon requirements.

[artamazon]

Idk how relevant this imgur post is to fighting specifically, but it's an interesting look at a wide variety of Olympian's bodies. You can see how their bodies and different muscle groups adapt to the type of athleticism required.

https://imgur.com/a/cOTTF#19 - dont forget to scroll up, for some reason it wants to start at the bottom of the post

[darthmongoose]

So I know there are people who hate it, but I am one of those people who indulges in "skinny little character has a massive sword because magic". Personally I'm of the opinion of "listen, if people are allowed to have dragons that have forelegs AND wings (how the hell do the bones and muscles work for that?), and if zombies can have eyes intact enough to see after more than like...two days (makes no sense, do zombies decompose slower than normal bodies?), and if people can grow spikes or claws and then have them go away (wait, where does the mass come from? Where does it go to!? Are they made from calcium, does the person need to eat a lot of cheese to maintain this power!? How does this even make sense!!?) and if people can conjure fireballs (a friend of mine calculated the energy involved in this. It is er.... enough to destroy the world. Even for a small firebolt) I'm allowed my silly big swords, okay!?"

So yes, Rekki is a 5'3"/160cm woman with noodle arms who probably weighs just under 50kg and she has a sword that quite possibly weighs more than she does. It's a ridiculous sword and she has a silly fighting style where she just kind of flings herself at things and uses the momentum to just cleave through. So you'll tend to see in terms of fighting pose, Rekki is all about big movements. Her punches are always hyper-extended in a really reckless way, her stances tend to be big lunge stances, and when she swings her sword, it tends to be a big arcing swing from the shoulder.

If you've done any martial arts, you'll probably realise, this is actually a fighting style that in real life wouldn't suit a 5'3" woman with noodle arms. Being myself a 5'1" woman with noodle arms, my own fighting style is nothing like Rekki's. I studied Wado-ryu karate, a form of karate with shorter stances than shotokan and and emphasis on being light and mobile rather than powerful. I specialise in feints and kicks, usually backstance because I have a low centre of gravity. My sensei was a big scottish guy who was always like, "Now listen, ye cannae punch them or ye'll just break yer wee chicken bone hands. Just stun 'em with a kick and run away."
If Rekki was sensible, since she has a similar build to me, she would fight this way too...
But Rekki Lune is a doofus who unfortunately has been gifted so much magical super-strength that she can use what is actually worst style of fighting for her and still keep winning. It's part of Rekki's personality though, that she over-relies on magic and makes poor decisions. On the other hand, there's also an element of power fantasy here, because when you're a small woman, you can't just fight like that, just go wild and fling punches, so it can feel quite freeing and fun to have this character who is just cutting loose like BOOM! I think it's something the audience like about Rekki.

So yeah, sometimes for character reasons or fun spectacle, I have chosen to deliberately have my characters fight in ways that aren't strictly practical, and that includes fighting in a style that doesn't suit the person's build.

[Snickerdoodles]

I hate cheese bones.

[DualDragons]

While I myself don't really obey these rules 100% of the time I do respect them in some kind of way. I always found it funny and weird how the 4 foot anime girl could swing around a hammer double her size and the tall af dude uses daggers but okay.

I do really look into body types when it comes to hand-to-hand combat and martial arts though. I noticed that irl because both my brother and I practice jujitsu.

So my brother is smaller and thin, about 5 feet and 5 inch (yes that is somewhat small for a dutch man). He isn't really going to use brute force in matches. Instead my brother pays more attention to techniques, and is agile due to his smaller size and weight. He also takes more of a offensive approach because he doesn't want to defend all the time with his body type. He is also able to throw people around using their weight.

Now I am a bit of a different story myself being taller and built more solidly (about 6 feet and one inch, and 74 kilograms. )
I'm not really agile, I can't move as fast as the opponent unless they are my size or bigger. So I usually take more of a defensive approach, waiting for opportunities to make a move. The advantage of my size is that I can throw around people both with their weight if they are bigger, and smaller people using my own weight.
Not to say I don't use my techniques , I'm pretty decent with my headlocks.

So yeah, even in this simple example it shows that there is a bit of a difference in fighting regarding body types. I'm not saying that one should use these observations all the time, but when a fight is presented in a more realistic setting (non fantasy and non sci-fi) then it might be worth looking into it. On the other hand it could be fun to learn these observations and then break them if you're making a fantasy story for example. Makes for a nice twist.

[skicoak]

But when they land a knock out it`s spectacular

That can definitely be a part of the arsenal for this type of endomorph but it isn't always one punch power, it can also be a matter of grinding an opponent down so they're susceptible to your power offense. It's harder to portray in comics because it requires such a large span of narrative space but it's a great ending when pulled off.

If I'm not mistaken in boxing that's called a slugger, they hit hard and get hit hard.

Yup. There was a lot more of them in the heyday of boxing when a fighter could make a living protecting the middle of the rankings. But with what we know about CTE now... not so many of them around.

while martial arts and unarmed combat the strongest and quickest to act wins ( MMA basically proves this)

What MMA really proves is the current homogenized MMA style has enough tools in the bag to usually prevail against a specialist when physical characteristics and experiences are equal"ish". There's a big reason why UFC has so few two weight division champions and no three weight division champions...the physical differences are greatly contrasted across that span of weight classes. Middleweight power isn't on the scale of heavyweight power amongst trained fighters.

weapon combat is really 99% one hit and you are dead like this

Definitely depends on the Era. Once smithed blades could hold an edge reliably it became more efficient but there's a reason bludgeoning weapons lasted through so many eras. You were less at the mercy of weapon maintenance.

[IdiotWithPencil]

Definitely depends on the Era. Once smithed blades could hold an edge reliably it became more efficient but there's a reason bludgeoning weapons lasted through so many eras. You were less at the mercy of weapon maintenance.

true bludgeoning, axes and piercing weapons were basically the equalizers, easy to use and maintain, and since they needed almost 0 training to be used effectively almost every solider was using this instead of the sword (Also plate armor made the sword practically useless in warfare at the time). But those who did know how to actually fight could and would win in the end since it takes only one mistake to lose in real combat, so basically when both combatants were on an equal playing field (I.E both had weapons) skill would determine who would win in the end.

here in the video, you can see even when most had weapons and same build the ones who got their enemy first with just one hit won the fight.

Middleweight power isn't on the scale of heavyweight power amongst trained fighters.

well of course not middleweight doesn't have the strength to beat a heavyweight in the current UFC system since the defense of the heavyweight are so high, though in a real combat situation the only out would be to tire the opponent out, there was a famous greek boxer who basically was a master of this and beat hulk style body types I.E heavy weights while being middle to fly weight by just doging like crazy.

of course, this was back when boxing was more wrestling/punching and there where no rounds or end times and would stop when one gave up or died... like real combat so to speak.

[skicoak]

axes and piercing weapons were basically the equalizers, easy to use and maintai

These are still edged weapons and easily dulled, in early technologies, making them less effective from encounter to encounter combat. In multiple enemy encounters the hammer, the club and maces were advantageous.

[IdiotWithPencil]

In multiple enemy encounters the hammer, the club and maces were advantageous.

well, I did place bludgeoning at the start so I agree that they were advantageous but the spears and axes where also used in these battles. But yes the hammer and mace were the preferred weapons in armored combat, though again this meant that the one with more skill would and usually did win at the end in weapons combat.

but in the defense of the spear it is more piercing than edge and was also used in combat since the reach was so massive compared to the hammer, while the axes edge was made less important since what it was used was for hacking the armor of the opponent and also with the curved part you could more easily catch and restraint your opponent. Plus the balance of said weapon made it so you where less slashing the opponent and more like ripping them apart like wood.

[skicoak]

well of course not middleweight doesn't have the strength to beat a heavyweight in the current UFC system since the defense of the heavyweight are so high, though in a real combat situation the only out would be to tire the opponent out, there was a famous greek boxer who basically was a master of this and beat hulk style body types I.E heavy weights while being middle to fly weight by just doging like crazy.

Invariably this goes back to the concept of unequal fight experiences. Larger, trained fighters now know more about footwork to cut off angles and not to chase opponents awkwardly...especially in street combat where one isn't going to lose on a points/judges scorecard. Trained fighters in most current practical combat arts don't tend to make the mistakes of yesteryear.

It's still funny how some disciplines still don't fully cross over. My buddy who was a decent regional MMA fighter and collegiate wrestler was amazed about all the old catch-as-catch can small joint hook holds that I learned from old school pro wrestling shooters. But the old shooters were horrible at defending themselves from the guard. Weirdness.