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Jun 2020

You may probably noticed this campaign, but have you wondered.....how this affect the way they fight????.... i did, so i thought this variable can be a more deliverate choice when designing a character who gets in fights and how it affects their combat style.

I have some martial experience in kenjutsu, full-contact and boxing, so i was able to experience fighting people of different heights and weights.

Something interesting i noticed is how those variables affect armed and unarmed combat. How much a fighter capitalize, overcome or compensate for these innate advantages and disadvantages will vary from their degree of skill and experience.

Height:

Height affects your reach. On average, taller people have longer arms, so they can hit from further away than a shorter person. However, if the shorter person gets close enough, they will be the ones on an advantageous position for punching, kicking or striking with a weapon. (grappling is another story, which also relates to weight)

Height affects how easy it is to hit someone: A smaller target is harder to hit, specially if they are good at defending themselves, however:

Height difference affects how easy it is to hit certain parts of the body: When fighting someone who is taller than you, it is way easier to hit them in the lower half on the body, however, if you encounter a shorter opponent, the superior part of the body will be relatively easier to reach.

Weight:

A heavier opponent hits harder: There is a reason martial sports like boxing and mma have weight categories. Force equals mass times acceleration, and to keep a fight where people can go all out without anyone dying, weight categories are neccesary.

A lighter opponent can move around more easily: The less weight you carry, the easier it is to move fast and to keep pace.

Heavy people are harder to push and can push others more easily: Mass times acceleration again.

Any aditional observations to consider?, what are your experiences?, have you used bodytypes as a variable in combat scenes?any comment is more than welcome!.

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There are 68 replies with an estimated read time of 14 minutes.

This is a brilliant observation, my friend!
Yes, body type greatly effects fighting style, from height to weight.
You've already gone over most of the facts I know here, so I'll spare everyone the reiteration.

though I haven't used body types in fights I have seen that one key factor apart from weight and height is muscle and bone density. The denser the bone the harder and heavier it is and the denser the muscle the less is needed for power. I think a story with these things in mind would be interesting also gives an excuse why a Fabio/Marlyn style character can easily destroy a hulk style character XD

I haven't really gone in-depth detail, but Rip is a shorty-shorty at 4ft 3in. He often goes for groin attacks, for both tactical reasons and most of his opponents to date have been in excess of 6 feet. Easier reach xD

In my youth as an athletic endomorph, in both real and choreographed combat, it should be noted that we're more often the cats who soak up physical damage the best. We're prone to fight styles that utilize that advantage in direct combat. Accepting we're going to take damage to get inside range/cut angles then holding the bulk of the fight inside a "phone booth".

One of the least cinematic approaches to combat, it often gets overlooked.

In the combat sports, it's the kind of fighter that promoters hate. Turning bouts into either dirty boxing/ground games or just faster opponents just trying to out point the endomorph to a victory.

UFC fighters like Daniel Cormier and Roy Nelson, boxers like George Foreman and Butterbean and specialists like Mick Foley and Sammo Hung are your spokesmen.

But when they land a knock out it`s spectacular :grin:

If i had to write an endomorph fighting scene i would play with the tension and build up towards those game changing hits. Also i would embrace the tactical side by getting the endomorph figuring out how to trick or provoke their opponent into making a mistake that leads to one of those heavy hits or punch trades.

If I'm not mistaken in boxing that's called a slugger, they hit hard and get hit hard.

would recommend Hajime no Ippo if you want to see this fighting style shine =D

again Hajime no Ippo if you want to see this in action or need some inspiration

I just saw this yesterday, and it fits pretty nicely with whats being said! Though its based on comments about gender, the actual explanation by the youtuber is focused on things like height, weight, and strength, and how weapon fighting (particularly swords) affects that.

Really cool topic @DiegoPalacios , I don't have anything to add myself, as I lack the skill, but I really liked reading your insight!

Yes! The body type makes a huge difference. I have been obsessively watching The man from U.N.C.L.E. during the quarantine I want to point out the HUGE difference between the TV show Illya and the 2015 movie version.

TV Illya
Petite, lithe, agile, very good at gymnastics.
Moves like a cat and uses his speed and judo moves to overpower bigger opponents.

Movie Ilya
Very tall, muscular, very strong and fast.
He seems to use his brute force most of the time. Gifted superhuman athlete.


So, they are supposed to be the same character. But the mere selection of body type they are not even close to be similar.
TV Illya is an adorable angelic smol bean who has to use his martial arts training, aerial kicks, and smart tricks to fight the opponents. I'm not saying he is weak, I say that he has force proportionate to his frame.

While Movie Illya can stop a car with his bare hands and overpower a big man in seconds. He is the tallest man in the room and just by looking at him, it's intimidating (dashingly handsome too).
I can't picture Movie Illya performing "cat burlgar" jobs that were so iconic in the original show.
They are two completely different people sharing a name and nationality because the changes to me are too dramatic. Like the 2015 is literally the opposite.

this is actually something most author miss when it comes to weapon combats, weapons turn combat to mostly skill-based fighting, while martial arts and unarmed combat the strongest and quickest to act wins ( MMA basically proves this1) weapon combat is really 99% one hit and you are dead like this

(sousei no taiga for anyone wondering)

so I would love to see people use this thinking more when writing fight scenes instead of the old MEGA GIANT SWING WINS

Probably also what kind or type of weapon you can use.

It just irks me off when seeing tiny ass skinny people with no muscle mass whatsoever having a big fucking sword/gun as a weapon, especially if there is no "it's magic" or "the weapon is made from nano-something technology that it's very light."

15m long greatsword, 1k kgs heavy greatsword.

Yes, I've read novels with such description 🤣🤣🤣

On another note, height also factors the kind of weapons you can use. Some weapons, no matter how skillful you are, you probably can't use it to its full potential. Rather than helping, it'll just be a burden instead.

I always take note of this when creating a character. For example, with Lin Xiao's build, he will not be able to fight properly if he were to wield a glaive. A spear would still be fine, but any heavier, he'll pass 🤣

Idk how relevant this imgur post is to fighting specifically, but it's an interesting look at a wide variety of Olympian's bodies. You can see how their bodies and different muscle groups adapt to the type of athleticism required.

https://imgur.com/a/cOTTF#195 - dont forget to scroll up, for some reason it wants to start at the bottom of the post :expressionless:

So I know there are people who hate it, but I am one of those people who indulges in "skinny little character has a massive sword because magic". Personally I'm of the opinion of "listen, if people are allowed to have dragons that have forelegs AND wings (how the hell do the bones and muscles work for that?), and if zombies can have eyes intact enough to see after more than like...two days (makes no sense, do zombies decompose slower than normal bodies?), and if people can grow spikes or claws and then have them go away (wait, where does the mass come from? Where does it go to!? Are they made from calcium, does the person need to eat a lot of cheese to maintain this power!? How does this even make sense!!?) and if people can conjure fireballs (a friend of mine calculated the energy involved in this. It is er.... enough to destroy the world. Even for a small firebolt) I'm allowed my silly big swords, okay!?"

So yes, Rekki is a 5'3"/160cm woman with noodle arms who probably weighs just under 50kg and she has a sword that quite possibly weighs more than she does. It's a ridiculous sword and she has a silly fighting style where she just kind of flings herself at things and uses the momentum to just cleave through. So you'll tend to see in terms of fighting pose, Rekki is all about big movements. Her punches are always hyper-extended in a really reckless way, her stances tend to be big lunge stances, and when she swings her sword, it tends to be a big arcing swing from the shoulder.

If you've done any martial arts, you'll probably realise, this is actually a fighting style that in real life wouldn't suit a 5'3" woman with noodle arms. Being myself a 5'1" woman with noodle arms, my own fighting style is nothing like Rekki's. I studied Wado-ryu karate, a form of karate with shorter stances than shotokan and and emphasis on being light and mobile rather than powerful. I specialise in feints and kicks, usually backstance because I have a low centre of gravity. My sensei was a big scottish guy who was always like, "Now listen, ye cannae punch them or ye'll just break yer wee chicken bone hands. Just stun 'em with a kick and run away."
If Rekki was sensible, since she has a similar build to me, she would fight this way too...
But Rekki Lune is a doofus who unfortunately has been gifted so much magical super-strength that she can use what is actually worst style of fighting for her and still keep winning. :rofl: It's part of Rekki's personality though, that she over-relies on magic and makes poor decisions. On the other hand, there's also an element of power fantasy here, because when you're a small woman, you can't just fight like that, just go wild and fling punches, so it can feel quite freeing and fun to have this character who is just cutting loose like BOOM! I think it's something the audience like about Rekki.

So yeah, sometimes for character reasons or fun spectacle, I have chosen to deliberately have my characters fight in ways that aren't strictly practical, and that includes fighting in a style that doesn't suit the person's build.

While I myself don't really obey these rules 100% of the time I do respect them in some kind of way. I always found it funny and weird how the 4 foot anime girl could swing around a hammer double her size and the tall af dude uses daggers but okay.

I do really look into body types when it comes to hand-to-hand combat and martial arts though. I noticed that irl because both my brother and I practice jujitsu.

So my brother is smaller and thin, about 5 feet and 5 inch (yes that is somewhat small for a dutch man). He isn't really going to use brute force in matches. Instead my brother pays more attention to techniques, and is agile due to his smaller size and weight. He also takes more of a offensive approach because he doesn't want to defend all the time with his body type. He is also able to throw people around using their weight.

Now I am a bit of a different story myself being taller and built more solidly (about 6 feet and one inch, and 74 kilograms. )
I'm not really agile, I can't move as fast as the opponent unless they are my size or bigger. So I usually take more of a defensive approach, waiting for opportunities to make a move. The advantage of my size is that I can throw around people both with their weight if they are bigger, and smaller people using my own weight.
Not to say I don't use my techniques :sweat_smile:, I'm pretty decent with my headlocks.

So yeah, even in this simple example it shows that there is a bit of a difference in fighting regarding body types. I'm not saying that one should use these observations all the time, but when a fight is presented in a more realistic setting (non fantasy and non sci-fi) then it might be worth looking into it. On the other hand it could be fun to learn these observations and then break them if you're making a fantasy story for example. Makes for a nice twist.

That can definitely be a part of the arsenal for this type of endomorph but it isn't always one punch power, it can also be a matter of grinding an opponent down so they're susceptible to your power offense. It's harder to portray in comics because it requires such a large span of narrative space but it's a great ending when pulled off.

Yup. There was a lot more of them in the heyday of boxing when a fighter could make a living protecting the middle of the rankings. But with what we know about CTE now... not so many of them around.

What MMA really proves is the current homogenized MMA style has enough tools in the bag to usually prevail against a specialist when physical characteristics and experiences are equal"ish". There's a big reason why UFC has so few two weight division champions and no three weight division champions...the physical differences are greatly contrasted across that span of weight classes. Middleweight power isn't on the scale of heavyweight power amongst trained fighters.

Definitely depends on the Era. Once smithed blades could hold an edge reliably it became more efficient but there's a reason bludgeoning weapons lasted through so many eras. You were less at the mercy of weapon maintenance.