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Jenny-Toons
Jan '18
2

Hi there guys!

Momma J coming at you with another topic :heart:

And today, I'm gonna address Building Connections (and friendships, if you choose to do so).

This is in regards to a lot of the unpaid collaboration topics I've seen. Whether it's someone looking for a writer or artist, there is something that really sticks out to me -- it's unpaid. The person asking might not necessarily be an artist or a writer, but they need one, and they don't have the money for it (which I get -- I know I can't afford to support some of the creators I'd want to support).

However, I think there's a slight problem with this.

No one really tries to connect with people.

I'm not saying connect as in "send me your contact if you're interested" but as in "I know this person well enough to do this with them".

I bring this up because unpaid collaborations still call for a lot of work. Both writers and artists alike have to put in work and effort to help bring an image to life. However, no one seems to want to get to know people first -- and when I say this, I mostly mean the people asking (though even some of the respondents do this as well).

I see a lack of desire to understand from another point of view, as well as a lack of desire to understand someone's work ethnics and dedication. From the topics I've seen, there wasn't really an effort to get to know people other than "this person I'm working alongside with".

Now, I'm both a writer and an artist. I do both and love to do both.

I've written short stories for school, personal use, and even posted work online. Been doing it seriously for 2 - 4 years. I've even been paid for some of my pieces. The same goes for my art. I've made drawing as a kid, but I've only started to get serious when I was 4 - 5 years old. I've done comics, tried new styles. And again, I've been paid for some of my pieces.

But at the same time, I've done unpaid collaborated work. I've done art trades, short comics, and projects with other people.

These people were not strangers. These were people I knew for a while (either as friends or other creators) and these were people I trusted enough to want to work with for free. In fact, money never crossed my mind. Because I knew these people.

I knew how they worked, and I enjoyed working with them.

That's what you should aspire to do before you ask someone "can you work with me for free?". To be realistic, not everyone will agree to do this. That's not to say some people won't do it for the exposure or to just have fun. There are plenty of people who'd love to do that and will dive right in. But not everyone will take that same dive (especially with a stranger), and we've seen that in the heated debates of these Collaboration threads.

I think it's real important to build trust and relationships with people before you ask this. This is for Professional Networking AND general relationships.

Because how do you know this other person won't bail on you?

How do they know you won't make them carry the whole project?

How do you both know you can count on each other to create this image?

As a creator, if I'm doing something for free, I would soon rather work with someone I know on good terms than with a complete stranger. Plain and Simple.

I know I've rambled on a little bit, but I think I can end this with a few tips:

  • Get to Know People: You know how people post those "What's your favorite comic?" or "Why do you like art?" threads? Yeah -- like that and more. See people as more than just "someone who can help me get noticed" or "someone I can work with". See people as people -- with interests, likes, dislikes, ideas, and creativity. Get to know why they like art, what inspires them, and how well they work with others, groups, or by themselves. The same goes for yourself. Put yourself out there and be a bit more open. Not saying you gotta open everything up, but let people see you as a person. That builds relationships and trust. That makes it easier for people to wanna work with you, especially if money is not involved. In fact, if they know you and trust you, they will most likely not even care about the money or even think about it.

  • Be Active: Comment on someone's work, help out with advice, talk in the forums (especially outside of promoting your work 24/7). While I understand everyone wants to be in the lime light (I do, I really do wanna be in the lime light), you have to give what you want to receive. Most of the people asking for a writer or artist only post for collaborations. I have failed to see some of them interact with other people. As far as I know, they're just strangers -- people I don't know, so I don't know if I'd work with them. Have the opposite effect. Help others improve their work, and they'll help you as well. And when you ask for an unpaid collaboration -- people will most likely come because they know how YOU are. And they're coming because they want to help YOU and your vision.

I honestly hope this helps out! And please, if anyone wants to add one, do so! But get to know people!

Edit (1/16/2017):
Here are some other places that provide help as well:

How to actually collaborate with an artist/writer6

A Question for Artist +Writer Teams4

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DiegoPalacios
Jan '18

Hi Jenny-Toons

I`m glad you made this topic. This is actually an exremely good point and an insightfull observation..

Any kind of human collaboration is based on trust, and even for paid collaboration, this can be helpful to build business relationships or at least reach the "i know a guy" kind of trust.
Everytime someone has a project, is important to know if is worth it to work with someone, or if is better to develop a neccesary skill that person may be lacking.

Developing those skills take time, that why sometimes is better to work with someone, but only if they are the right people for the job. (not only in skill, but also in work ethics and reliability).

Jenny-Toons
Jan '18

Most definitely! I really wish people thought about this more when doing these things. I've got no problem with collaborations, paid or not. But if I don't know you well enough, it makes it sorta hard to work with you.

Or AKA: "Talk to people!!!" :joy:

dawgofdawgness
Jan '18

Well I just came back from the Purge Thread and I have to say this thread is really nice :slight_smile: I'm glad you made this!

Jenny-Toons
Jan '18

Thank you! I had just recently saw the post explaining why unpaid collaborations exists.

You know me, just browsing around, looking at topics, trying to revive them XD. But it really struck me on the debates in there. I was very intrigued, and as someone who writes and draws, I could understand where everyone was coming from. However, and someone pointed it out, there was one thing that wasn't mentioned in the post, and that was building relationships.

So I was inspired to write this. I've done unpaid stuff before, but I liked it because they were with people I knew and trusted. Even if I got paid, it was mostly from people I knew and trusted. And I really just wanted to encourage people to get out there and talk to people. I know the internet can be a God send to some of us introverts (me being one), but goodness -- you can still get to know people :joy:

I hope this topic does some good ^^//

BraniAndNess
Jan '18

A thousand times yes, I agree so much! As the illustrator in a writer/artist team, I can say that the balancing act is not always easy and I wouldn't be able to do it with anyone but Brani!

We actually met on Deviantart when he was looking for an artist to turn his novels in comic. I wrote him a letter explaining pretty much what you do here, that this was a massive amount of work he was asking for, and most artists can't just casually jump into something like this. I basically rained all over his parade and was sure he would tell me to go to hell, but he was interested in what I had to say and actually asked for my advice. We immediately clicked! Over the next 4 years we spoke almost everyday and became best friends. He would often tell me about his ideas and the stories he was writing, and I'd give him my opinion. Then one day he shared with me the story for Shadows in the Library and I was hooked! I was about to finish college and would have some time on my hands... and by that point I knew how nicely we got along. So this time, I'm the one who asked him to make a comic together!

Apart from getting along so well, I think the crucial part of our partnership is that he shares his world with me. I don't feel like I spend all my time drawing HIS story. I feel like I spend all my time drawing OUR story, and that's very important! Brani has always been like this, even when he shared his novel ideas with me... As soon as I gave my opinion, he would start calling it "our project". That really means a lot! More than that, he listens to my advice and concerns and we work out a story that works best for both of us. We actually had a big disagreement for several months about who the main character would end up with! I wasn't convinced with his choice and I asked him to convince me. In the end, he changed the story a little bit so that this couple works even better, and came up with something so good that I was completely won over! But if I hadn't been, we would have worked out something else. It's our project, and the honesty and trust we shared while aking it is important!

We get along so well that we are actually engaged now haha

Jenny-Toons
Jan '18

-Points at you from the crowded crowd- There it is! That's exactly what I'm talking about!

You guys clicked, you got to know each other, and you worked it all out together. It wasn't a "my", it was a "ours". And that's what so many people seem to forget. When you're working with someone, it's not just "your" project. They're a part of it, so it's also "their" project.

Thank you so much for sharing your story, darling! :heart:

This is the type of thing I live for when it comes to art ^^

Wumbl
Jan '18

Yes!!!!!!!!!!

This is a really good post, OP.

I personally am so glad I teamed up with my life partner to build our fictional universe. It was probably one of my best writing decisions. We can workshop each other's stories and create characters together seamlessly since we both understand the ins and outs of our work. Having someone there to get second opinions is unbelievably valuable and I wish I could go back in time and find 15 year old Sonny and slap him and tell him to NETWORK because helping each other and exchanging advice is super important to improving skill.

I love being able to watch things together and say "Ooh I love that little tidbit. Let's look closer at it."
It's such an amazing thing. Workshopping is something I feel like I can't live without now.

Nivardy
Jan '18
1

Hello,

Even though I'm an adult (by all technicalities, anyway), this continues to be an issue not only in my professional life, but also in my personal life. I've been on the receiving end of the impersonal "you scratch my back, and you'll be known as the person who scratched my back", and I am ashamed to admit I've doled it out too.

Seriously, though. What a mature and helpful post, I'm really moved, actually.
I just want to add one thing.

To the many of us, who either suffer from social anxiety or just really frustrating introversion, I'd like to say this:

You probably have focused a lot of mental energy inward, which has lead to introspective knowledge or creativity.
Use that.

Use your knowledge of self to relate with others, use that wellspring of creativity to imagine what you'd like to be asked from the perspective of others. Like Jenny-Toons said,

Listen, I have social anxiety and just anxiety in general, and I know it can get in the way of many things, driving,talking with others, talking on the phone, reconnecting, trying new things, and at worst even eating.

I have found that meditating, even if for a minute or two helps a lot.

I have to remind myself that the worst than can happen is that someone doesn't like me.

Again, thank you Jenny-Toons.

Jenny-Toons
Jan '18

Oh gosh, of course, darling!

I know how hard it is to get yourself out there, even in general social settings. Like, for me, I'm a bit on the introverted side. If it's not for an event, I probably won't push myself to be too social. But I've been improving that over time with talking in forums like these ^^

I really happy that this spoke to you, and I'm glad you've found ways to embrace things. I think another reason I did this post was to encourage people to also slowly break out of their comfort zones. Nothing too crazy of course, but gentle baby steps help us all. :smile:

Jenny-Toons
Jan '18
Wumbl

Yeee, thank you, darling!

I'm glad you were able to build that amazing connection with someone and work together. Some of the best things we find out about later, and I know if I could go back in time, I would've definitely started early with connecting XD

But the good thing is that you have it now, and I hope it keeps working for you ^^//

joe_galindez
Jan '18
dawgofdawgness

Are we really going to call it The Purge Thread? I mean, yeah, it kinda fits.

I'm proud of you guys. But also horrified. You have been hanging around me way too much.

spicy_sweets
Jan '18
Wumbl

Ooohh, this may be off topic but I really like your profile pic. Is that a character in your series?

Wumbl
Jan '18

Weirdly enough you're close... Tiffany isn't gonna be in my current series but she's one of the characters I'll be putting in the sequel - after I've established angels in the current one I will be moving onto a story focused on demons instead.

DiegoPalacios
Jan '18
joe_galindez

As the "old" men we are we have to give a good example.....or at least an acceptable, decent tolerable one. :wink:

Guys, if you are reading this stay on school, don´t do drugs, eat your vegetables and never run with scissors.....run with a rock, rock beats scissors.

2 months later
Jenny-Toons
Apr '18

I've decided to revise this post after seeing a LOT more collaboration threads here with zero replies or people posting multiple collaboration threads within the same hours.

Guys! I wanna give people the benefit of the doubt because I can only assume the most of you who are doing these are young, inexperienced, and are new to this business.

But it's not as easy to draw or write as you may believe. And a lot of you do these posts but don't have concrete evidence of any work done for your projects (though some of you get a pass because you want a partnership).

Again, I urge you to build connections with people. I urge you to not be that user whose replies and posts only consist of "Hey, Collab with me!!!" or "Hey, check out my work!!"

But most of all -- I urge you to have something for others to view if you want a collaboration. Disorganized ideas and wishful thinking do not make a story. Saying "oh, I have this cool idea for a story!!" won't convince a lot of people to get involved.

Action, effort, and time do.

Penni
Apr '18

Thank you for this! There is some great advice in here :slight_smile: