20 / 53
Feb 2022

In this age of social media; it’ll only take a few clicks and your name for other people to dig up some wrong things you did in the past. What will you do as an artist if you were cancel for a mistake happened in your past?

For example, you did something wrong to someone. Now fans are leaving you hate comments, burning your books, and banning your series in a country. What will you do in that instant?

:flushed:

  • created

    Feb '22
  • last reply

    Mar '22
  • 52

    replies

  • 3.7k

    views

  • 28

    users

  • 213

    likes

  • 1

    link

Frequent Posters

There are 52 replies with an estimated read time of 13 minutes.

Keep on keeping on. Can't control the actions of others, only the actions of myself. Eventually people will move on to the next thing to get mad over and forget all about it.

I mean, I'm gonna be real, the only time I've ever seen someone actually get "cancelled" is when they do something dumb, get called on it, and then dig in and/or throw a tantrum. Any time anyone is like "my bad, I'm sorry, I made a mistake and I will learn and try to be better", there's usually some backlash, a bit of rah-rah, and then a few days later (almost) everyone forgets (except for a few weirdos) and moves on and you're back on whatever program you were going for.

Like yeah it stings to mess up and it stings doubly to have to be candid about your mistake (it's just a normal human reaction), but I guarantee it's waaay easier for you (psychologically and professionally) if you just own up to it, learn from it and move on.

Learn to ignore it.
That´s one reason why show business is harder for people who get famous over night
compared to people who work their way up slowly.
Cancel culture is not something new, it always existed, they just didn´t name it or talk
about it so much like today

In some cases cancel culture is about things someone did in their past,
the problem is that cancel culture is about art/expression/words

This is mostly true, but I’ve also seen it weaponized or indulged in in bad faith. What happened to Lindsay Ellis for example. Cancelling in this case is clearly done in bad faith, but I think the public shaming aspect of “calling out” combined with the way social media empower this behavior can make calling out harmful.

Not saying calling out in general is bad, since that has been misused to demonize people trying to cancel legitimately harmful people, but I do think we have to look at specific situations

A good alternative I’ve seen is “calling in”, where community members hold themselves responsible to one another and make good faith, empathetic conversation with the problematic person to make them understand what they did wrong.

Time for "Noise cancellation" I guess.

Though if it is something that actually bad decisions (not your words taken out of context, or past teenage stupidity because you just had access to internet and did not know English well that you thought saying some words is okay) I still think you have to address it somehow, but do not exacerbate it.

What is this human psychology thing that makes them want to feel morally superior and more correct that others? I cannot wait for cats to take over the world.

Yep, the same happened to AOT’s creator, Isayama. He’s not canceled, but has been receiving death threats from fans because of the many controversy in the manga and anime. I’m scared of using my real name for my comic to be honest. :sob:

Many creators work under a different name when they create sexual content.
It´s sad when you think about it

I think you can use pseudonym, even in traditional publishing
Yet, once you got too popular, people will eventually know who are you or guess who you are. Maybe they can also appear in front your house holding some signs—who knows.
However, when you're successful, popular, and rich enough, you can just close your ears with your money and achievements. No amount of screeching cannot defeat the fact that you're more accomplished and richer than them. You can also actually sue people for threats or trespassing without much financial damage if you think things have escalated too much, and if you're from those types of countries, you can easily put them in jail as well with all that money. Even if you have to "resign" from your position and the crowd wins, you still have money and can do other things.

Honestly, one who should fear more about this thing is small creators. They cannot defend themselves as well as the big ones. Especially with the envy plus "crab-in-a-bucket" mentality between fellow small creators, the nature of social media, and reactive tendencies of making a mountain out of a mole hill.

The people trying to cancel you are going to get off on seeing you react to them. And they probably have a skewed , black and white sense of morality and they aren't going to be interested in hearing what you have to have to say for youself (someone sending you death threats over a mistake you made, isn't going to over the morality in their own actions. They just want to harass you for what you did)
If there's a genuine mistake made, like if I said something that I then realize was harmful, an apology can be in order. But don't interract with the harassers, that's what they want. And they WILL turn what you say against you. Ignore, block, mute. Move along with your life. Recognize that people looking to cancel you will find reasons to critique you, or they will make things up. And their idiotic behaviour is not your responsibility, and it's not your job to argue with them. They're not interested in listening you, so don't bother trying.

I take 2 weeks off and hope they lose interest and forget about me by then

Non-black people using 'cancel culture' in the absolute wrong way again huh. :sob:

Simply put, holding somebody ACCOUNTABLE for their actions is NOT "cancel culture". And that's all this is, holding people accountable for being an absolute fuckshit. Y'all really keep on assuming people are out for a witchhunt, while its about people needing to actually behave like normal humans beings and need to get their act together when they screw up.

Because whenever somebody screws up, its nearly always against minorities. It's nearly always about ableism, racism or any kind of biggotry these very same people get away with because their followers like to lick their heels so much... Y'all really think people out here hunting for creators, but those same creators are being kept off the hook by their fanbase having formed parasocial relationships with 'em and let them say the most heinous shite and are even applauding that same behavior.

I truly feel the meaning of this word has become so twisted its being used in the most wrong sense and people (especially non-black people) use it for tantrums against folks...

I mean the Linsday Ellis situation is a very good example of cancel culture. She mad a comment comparing the movie Raya the last dragon and ATLA, some people of South Eastern Asia commented this was a bit of a stereotyped comparison to make, to which then anyone who ever had a problem with Linsday to come out of the woodworks and weaponize it to cancel her, and completely derailed the original issues regarding the movie.

If people are trying to “cancel” you over something dumb or cringy you said years ago, then you should be the better person and show that you have changed as a person and address your past mistakes.

However, there are people who sort of deserve the backlash. Like adult men who act wildly inappropriate to underage fans. Or all the people involved in the hair gummy vitamins drama on YouTube.

I don't know why you have to say this is an issue especially for black people when you also acknowledge it's regarding other minority groups too.

I was pretty mad with Lindsay Ellis situation, and these people who called out supposedly racist tweet are majority white, so like, what was that about? I’m a southeast asian and I critiqued Raya much harder than Lindsay did lmao. I am still angry about that tbh.

not answering on suren's behalf but given that even in bipoc spaces there are still instances of rampant antiblackness it makes it something worth noting and addressing which again is one of the reasons why people freely tossing around the phrase "cancel culture" in place of what is often times accountability is incredibly frustrating

like no one is purposefully trying to minimize the struggles, hardships or what have you of other minority groups but intersectionality is often overlooked and ignored and because of conscious or subconscious ignorance there's things that happen which aren't properly addressed or dealt with in a matter that leads to an actual resolution hence the pointing out of how and why things are often swept under the rug (again especially when it relates to black folks)

like without intent to derail the topic i can name several instances just this month (which in the us is presently black history month) where overt antiblackness was witnessed and ignored and when addressed was either called or referred to as "cancel culture" or "the woke mob" or what have you. so it's often not people going out looking and waiting for someone to mess up to make a big scene out of things it's people actively bearing witness to or personally experiencing something and then being called all out their name for trying to speak up on it

absolutely!! It depends on why is person getting canceled, but i noticed that a lot of big creators (not on tapas) get "canceled" for something harmful, but they just continue like nothing happened, not even apologize

Honestly, I have this fear in the back of my mind that I'll get blasted for my comic. x'D I've seen artists and writers get dragged just for transgressive work, not being progressive enough, making tiny mistakes, being adults generally making adult art/fiction, or not representing a minority in a way certain people want. (Usually people not even in that minority, or dumb kids with no life experience.)

It's messed up because these people trying to mind their own business get death threats, stalked, harassed and sometimes doxxed, which is absolutely illegal but most victims can't afford taking the issue to court. Plus it's hard to make a case out of online discourse, which is even harder to do if the person is considered a public figure.

Back to the question though, I don't really know what I'd do, it depends on the severity but I'm super smalltime so it would be easy to take me out if anyone tried to do some hardball stuff. There was a person on Twitter who was trying to get some Youtube drama folks to make a video about me, @ing them about how dangerous my comic is, while calling me a bigot and pedophile, but they were ignored from what I saw. (Haven't seen any videos or hate mobs yet, so I assume they weren't taken seriously.) I like to keep a low profile just for my own privacy, so there isn't a whole lot of incriminating stuff anyone can find on me... unless someone can find my many different usernames over the years, and somehow dig out crap from my teens, which stuff like that is totally possible if the person is skilled enough. Either way I'd probably either keep trying to do my thing, or ghost for a bit if the situation gets too out of hand.

What's extra gross is these totally unsupervised kids and unhinged adults using something someone said or did 10+ years ago, most likely when the victim was in a bad mental state or dangerous situation, acting like they're still like that even though it's not true. Even more messed up is the times when it works, and the person gets gang banged by a mob expecting an apology, but don't relent even if the person complies. Like, jesus dude! It was just an artist who said gay guys were hot when they were 14, not a staff member of the Fort Simpson Indian Residential School who contributed in the murder of thousands of indigenous kids.

Edit:

I kinda disagree. I believe call-outs in general are bad, most of the time they're children totally overblowing a small issue for the blood sport, misunderstanding/misusing law to claim someone is a criminal when they're not, or interfering in something that should be handled by the police. The latter usually resulting in the person abandoning/deleting their accounts, and never seeing justice because these dumb kids just attacked them rather than gathering evidence, guaranteeing that the person will be able to continue offending in the future. Call-outs are a terrible idea.

First things first- if "cancel culture" were effective, there would be a long list of people affected by it; given the fact that you have creators who are still making a decent living afterwards pretty much says "cancel culture" isn't as effective as it is blown up to be...and if there are any creators who have been affected by it, chances are they may have deserved it.

General rule of thumb- don't be a dick. A lot of folks getting called out have engaged in racist/sexist/homophobic antics and for whatever reasons just don't handle the situation well(or double down on their stance)...an apology can go a long way(provided the individuals don't have a documented history of re-engaging in the same antics that got them called out in the first place).

I really feel like the definition for someone being "cancelled" is now used as a fear-mongering tactic by individuals who don't want to accept responsibility for their actions.

this sentiment specifically is something i really wish would bear more permanence in people's mind because the focus is put on concerns about being called out for certain actions rather than having the foresight to consider potential consequences of said actions

like if you think it might be bad or you know that it's bad don't do it otherwise be prepared to deal with it down the line. even more so it's one of the reasons why folks point out the importance of doing research when touching on specific topics and engaging with folks from certain communities when talking about things regarding them to avoid certain missteps and mistake and even if the situation is more on folks misinterpreting something it's better to apologize for things being missed or overlooked rather than coming out with some kind of bs excuse or deflecting

I think there's a difference between "cancelling" and "calling out." What we usually see is Call-Out Culture. Call-Out Culture thrives on negative engagement, they get lots of money when they make a Call-Out video, and they make up BS all the time in order to keep the wheel of rage moving, and that is quite bad. It's very different from Cancelling which was done to protect the black community originally. Call-Out Culture is often...with the intention of getting views on your call-out videos, lets be real. They don't care if it's exaggerated, and they don't care if they make a mob. They want the views.

Like the other day I saw this fashion influencer chick who liked a image of a trump rally by accident on instagram. People saw that and were really upset--thing is, the person who liked the image is an openly lesbian liberal. It could not more clearly be an accident because you know when you're scrolling on your phone and you see an image, you might tap it as you continue to scroll. Yet, people were so outraged, that she decided to make a 30 minute long teary eyed apology video to the entire black community (who, in the comments were like wtf are you talking about woman), burnt the bridge between her and her long time friends who were trying to get her to shut up, and if anyone said "this is insane" they were told they were being racist and had to shut up. The situation exploded in everyone's face who tried to even approach it.

Stuff like that is clearly call-out culture, which is very different, and the way to address it is to not address it. The internet can make it seem like ridiculous statements are legitimate, since all are delivered on the same platform. If you give it credence, even to say "this isn't true" then you've acknowledged that this has been a problem and you've given them ammunition to start their attack. Like there comes a point where your fans and readers need to use their damn brains and see what is probably not real.

But as far as being cancelled because you did something hella racist, that's why prevention is the best policy. Do your research so you can cite your research basically. There may be people that are mad because you may be writing something that isn't exactly about your race or identity and you have to let them talk about it. You don't have to read their articles, you don't have to acknowledge them, but yes, you have to let them discuss it.

Like the whole thing that went down with Critical Role--the person who was criticizing them was writing an opinion piece. They had no real solution to what Critical Role could do differently, they just wanted to share an opinion that they knew would get a lot of views, and it was a spicy opinion they may have deep feelings about. It was such a hot take that Critical Role doesn't even have to address it. They were not really "cancelled" so much as Called Out, and I don't think that the even author of the article against Critical Role deserved the amount of backlash they got because it's just an opinion piece on Kotaku. Sometimes you have to let your fans decide for themselves what they want to think.

I have a problem with using transgressiveness to excuse the harmful outcome (people sayin comedians should be able to say whatever they want for example). If your work is harmful and called out by a marginalized group (as opposed to dominant people doing it on badfaith) then it's time to take a step back and hold yourself accountable. It's definitely not black and white, but creators should always be aware of, and acknowledge the harm of their work in order to grow. Artist, after all, should uplift, not put down others.

I do agree that calling in can be a more productive way of addressing a problematic individual in your community. The issue is that sometimes problematic individuals are rich and powerful, and can just ignore you and not face any consequences. Calling out is often the only way for "victims" to bring attention to the harm.

Most of the time the people who make transgressive works are marginalized, working from their own perspective, and most of the time they're survivors or victims themselves trying to cope with their trauma via fiction and art. Like, there are legit studies I can show you that people with mental illnesses and trauma can use art and fiction to deal with that stuff, and it being an alright thing to do. Yeah, that kind of work can be harmful if it's not properly tagged with warnings and such, which many people do and still get crap for it. If the artist/writer is doing what they can to deter people who aren't their target audience, it is up to the other party to take their viewing experience into their own hands. There is a lot of greyness to the existence of transgressive work, it shouldn't be censored because it can potentially harm someone. You may as well get rid of horror, anything that deals with dark topics and all violence in fiction/games at that point because there have been cases of the consumption of those things doing harm.
Saying "Artist, after all, should uplift, not put down others." should work on both ends, you shouldn't treat someone like garbage for what they make, a person should be judged on how they treat other people. What you make =/= how you treat others.

It's like the fiction affecting reality thing. Yeah, it does, but it's not as B&W as everyone likes to make it out to be. There is nuance in how it affects people, who is affect, how many and what era they're in. Just because a piece of fiction may hurt one group doesn't mean everyone is affected the same way but it, also saying it's okay to sanitize some fiction just because it can potentially harm someone can lead to it being okay to sanitize all fiction. Which is way more harmful.

Well yeah, I agree with that, but most of the time they're indie folks who are easy targets. It's not alright to apply the same tactics used on people in power for folks who have no power, and whose lives and mental health can be affected by it.

if that's why you make your work, and it's properly tagged and explained, I dont think most people have an issue with it. It's part of uplifting yourself, and I make works like that myself. But those are not at all the works I'm talking about, nor the typical works being called out.

As a small time creator I would simply reap the benefits of the free WoM :information_desk_person:

Cancel culture only hurts the people who are so trusting of the internet/humans to put their information out there and harmful to the mentally Ill/ already traumatized and abused victims.

People like JK rolling and James Charles only benifits from this shit

Learn what publicity is

Some beauty YouTuber was trying to sell some sketchy gummy hair vitamins. Her and another beauty YouTuber (who later was exposed as being really racist) teamed up to throw an obnoxious teenager under the bus and build some narrative that would cause him to be cancelled. These freakin adults didn't like how the teen was so popular, so they did all these call outs because the teen was promoting a competing hair vitamin. The woman made all these fake apology videos acting like she was the victim and viewers fell for it. Shane Dawson was also involved, which makes the whole situation even more yikes.

Oh trust me, I hang out in that community on social media, a lot of people do have an issue with these creators. It's enough of a problem there are posts almost every week about trauma survivors getting shit for their art/stories, doesn't help that many of them create adult content for a living and are slowly being pushed off the internet on top of puritans calling them horrible people for their creations. It doesn't matter if you don't feel they're the same, they get treated the exact same way, and in the end the statement that you should treat people based on how they treat others still applies. What you create, unless it's literal propaganda, shouldn't matter because people are more complicated than that. Even if they aren't a survivor or marginalized, no one deserves to be treated like garbage unless they're massively treating others like garbage.

To clarify, I'm not equating critiquing someone's work or actions with treating someone like crap, I'm specifically talking about dogpiling and threatening someone, and/or going out of your way to treat them badly purely for creating transgressive work regardless of who they are as a person. If you think that's okay to do that's messed up, even if they don't take the proper criticism that isn't bad enough to warrant going for their throats, unless they're an absolute terrible person.

Edit: @NickRowler Wow, I think I actually saw that! The whole thing was wild, had me questioning whether those people were really adults because they were acting like babies. Kinda reminded me of this influencer who had her own make-up line, it came out that her lipsticks were dangerous, tons of reviews came out showing mold, hair and metal shards in the lipstick, along with pictures of people with infections due to the make-up. I don't remember all of it but I think she doubled down for a bit before giving up and recalling everything, with her career thoroughly tarnished.
The beauty community is something else, man.

Cancel culture disgusts me. This nonsense argument that this it's "accountability culture" is just a way to justify bullying in massive scale.

Sure, people can have an opinion if you do something wrong. They can stop watching, they can comment on the issue and criticize, get down harmful or false information that's fair. I'm against the harassment and demanding apologies or bullying people to be "accountable". Who is taking YOUR accountability? This culture just empowers the idea that random strangers on the internet are more important than us and our own actions. We are in no position to "fix" people on a personal level.

If something is a CRIME it should be prosecuted. Twitter is not s tribunal.

If it happened to me I would either ignore or delete my presence, I hate that crap

Ngl I was struggling to write a post earlier but I didn't even bother, but I just wanted to let you know because you nailed it on the effen head.

Cancel culture from what I’ve seen is a method instigators used to to diminish the reputation of of public figures or brands that have a platform. Unfortunately, too often, the inflammatory remarks of one person can spread like wildfire which mostly results in said brand being tarnished.

I’ll give an example, and this happened here on the forums by the way. One person, let’s call them “X” tried to oust me for a comment I made about 2 years. I’ll admit that I was naive about the underlying nature of the comment I posted and I was contacted by a forums moderator about the situation, and understood my wrongdoing. It was a swift and peaceful settlement and I have learned my lesson from that issue henceforth. I then come to find out that 3 months after the whole debacle, this person named X told me off to some other creators who I was in the middle of playing a Roleplaying game with in private. The owner of said RP reached out to me about what X told them, and I might get voted of the RP due to the repercussions of what was stated. I explained my case to the owner privately and when it came time to iron out this issue with X face to face with the owner demanding us to find common ground, X decided he was better off excusing himself from the RP in an attempt to escape the issue THEY caused all because he didn’t want to face backlash from me. So the both of us ended up leaving the RP to avoid further conflict.

The reason I bring this up is because that in of itself is my firsthand experience delving into the muddy waters of “cancel culture”. Sometimes, when people are ostracized on social platforms, people who were support of the brand they subscribed to end up leaving due to misinformation. Is it more appropriate to be “the bigger person” in such as case and keep the ball rolling? Sure. However I would argue that by simply ignoring trolls who seek to ruin your reputation for an incident that happened way off in the past (especially when you acknowledge and learn why scrutiny was there in the first place) you have to be aggressive with said trolls because in the off chance that they try to make you lose followers or find a reason to hate on you, you have every right to stand your ground against those who may prove to be an obstacle to your success.

Like I know cancel culture is being demonized by certain group as this fearful thing the left does, and it’s mostly not true. But I just cannot help but when people hungry for drama used it to create brownie points for themselves. And twitter is very toxic place with very limited room for nuance. Cancel culture is a tool, and just like every other tool it can be used to do its function properly, or people would do it badly, and harmfully. Like, the level of outrage these people throwing against people who in real life would agree with atleast 95% of their position in politics is just mindblowing. It’s not like they murder someone or rape someone or start an unjustified invasion/war. Get a grip people.

I don't know what the empirical facts are with respect to what percentage of 'cancelling' incidents were harmful towards a relatively innocent person vs helpful by calling out a genuinely harmful person, but I do feel the need to say this:

It's dumb to expect an immediate AND genuine apology from the 'transgressor'. If you push someone to respond immediately, how tf do you expect them to understand what they've done wrong? Genuine remorse comes with time and self-reflection, something we stupidly don't allow others to have whether or not it's a 'cancel culture' situation. It just really grinds my gears when people are like APOLOGISE NOW, and then when they do apologise, they're like WHAT A NON-APOLOGY, NOT GENUINE AT ALL. Like, what did you expect? If you don't want someone to throw out a non-apology to cover their ass, let them apologise when they've actually had time to reflect on their actions

I'd probably make my bf deal with it haha
I've been terminally online since 2009 there's a good chance I've said something stupid within those 10+ years but I was a teenager then, and a lot of people can't seem to wrap that around their head.
Even so, I'm not in a good headspace, I have to go to therapy 2-3 times a week and I have neurological issues that make my cognitive functioning lower than your typical person. So it takes me a while to make a cohesive sentence.
Plus with the content of my story being about CSA and childhood trauma, it's bound to make someone upset, even with the disclaimers and age warnings, some people ignore them and choose to be upset and angry.
So unless it was constructive criticism, I really would just dip for a while and let my bf handle it.
I hardly use my social media anymore anyway cause people always wanted to argue with me °~° it's not worth it.

"Cancel Culture" is mostly a buzzword these days for whenever a creator even receives the most minor of criticisms, but I can't imagine anything I've seen from people who've participated in actively cancelling someone as healthy or even a form of social justice.

As a POC (and woman), I don't get the notion of how "cancel culture" is somehow empowering for POC to make white creators accountable when numerous POC and women have fallen victim to being "cancelled" from the slightest transgressions, sometimes much more easily so than their white male counterparts. Plenty of people use the moral high ground of "cancelling" as an excuse to harass women and POC when they're really just sexist/racist.

If you want to call out or criticize someone, want to hold someone "accountable", write your piece to let others know, unfollow them, and be done with it. There's a different between criticizing someone and looking for an excuse to bully