Jan 2018
6 / 13
Jan 2018
Jan 2018
AdrenalineShots
Jan '18

Hi All

Apologies if others have drawn comparisons, but it seems that the changes in Line Webtoon to make things harder to earn / get Patreon sponsorship and the de-monitisation of YouTube Channels of less than 1,000 subscribers seem to be along similar lines i.e. you need more subs than ever before to be able earn money from your creations.

I guess my query is why are things like these happening? What do people think? Is it because there is so much content now that this is just another way of distinguishing between that content?

Cheers

Danny

  • created

    Jan '18

  • last reply

    Jan '18
  • 12

    replies

  • 2.2k

    views

  • 10

    users

  • 29

    likes

  • 2

    links

69Michi
Jan '18

In my opinion, it’s a change that every platform that gains more and more content creators probably will go through eventually. Back in the day 1k subs was already quite impressive on YouTube, but now I think the last statistic show that there are million of people having over million subscriber on YouTube now and counting (hence why the last YouTube rewind was such mess, they tried to include way too many people)

Similar concept for LINE Webtoon, I assume. It’s hard to balance the already big creators with newcomers :slight_frown: both webtoon discover and YouTube operates without a proper contract, so they can raise the bar if they see needed, I guess.

BraniAndNess
Jan '18

I think the situation on Youtube and Webtoons are quite different. On Youtube, these changes are coming right on the heels of all the trouble they've had this year. Companies have complained about their ads running on inappropriate content and many major corporations have pulled their ads, making Youtube lose massive earnings. Since hundreds if not thousands of hours of content are uploaded everyday, they can't possibly be all checked manually and have had to create an algorithm to fins and demonetize such videos. There has been a ton more outrage about the algorithm being too strict targeting videos that shouldn't be removes, like news shows, LGBT content, or video evidence of war crimes in 3rd world countries. More recently, massive Youtuber Logan Paul slipped through Youtube's radar and uploaded a video where he found the dead body of a suicide victim, he intensively showcases it in the video and even the thumbnail. It seems in reaction to this, Youtube has announced the changes to the ad revenue program which will remove the amount of people profiting from ads and allow Youtube staff to better moderate the content, in an effort to keep more advertisers from pulling out.

As for Webtoons, the situation seems much different. Webtoons is a FAR smaller website than Youtube and aren't owned and backed by Google themselves. The amount of money at their disposition just isn't the same. With the amount of new featured series debuting recently, my guess is that they have decided to shift their limited budget, pulling some money away from the pledge program in order to get more featured series that they are curating themselves. Time only will tell if that is a good move on their part...

Aspie_Gamer
Jan '18

To me its a big middle finger towards up and coming creators moving the goalposts without warning.

Both Youtube and LINE as of late have made it crystal clear imo where they stand in regards to top creators.

Yeah they earn both sites money, but eventually the regular audience will get tired of them and want something fresh and in regards to popular creators, it seems to me that after a certain point, they could very well make their own website and survive without the help of the site that made them popular in the first place.

Unfortunately, neither Youtube nor LINE seems to view it that way and as it stands, they'd rather let smaller creators starve instead of giving them the help they could most certainly use. And the thing is, neither site would be what it is without help from the little guy who made their growth possible to begin with.

And while I haven't seen any top webcomic creators acting snooty towards small time creators regarding what's been going on with LINE (yet), I've been seeing big name Youtubers cough Boogie cough telling smaller ones affected by Youtube's asinine new policy to basically suck it up. Real rich coming from the same big name YT celebs who are always whining about their videos getting demonetized for BS reasons or how they need money for such and such and are always shilling their Patreon accounts telling those beneath them to just bend over and accept Youtube's latest screwing over of creators.

If I wanted a successful out of touch person talking down to me, I'd just turn on the news.

God forbid some people want to make a little pocket change and thus have a motive to keep doing what they like to do until they can start making more doing what they love. And in my experience, big creators generally don't give a damn about the little people who are serious about their craft even though they started out small once too and thus should have every reason to be sympathetic and help out to the best of their ability.

Yeah...I've been pretty peeved by all this crap happening as of late.

VibrantFoxRegular
Jan '18

One thing I've seen in regards to Youtube is the fact that Paul's video managed to blow up thanks to pretty much a loophole in the Youtube algorithm. The link to the video for those willing to sit and watch for a few minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCp4VjZLBk04

While moderating the content is obviously a challenge I'm not entirely sure that these new requirements of total watch minutes/hours and 1,000 subs are going to prevent something like the Logan Paul incident from happening again. Sure it may discourage YouTube newbies and existing small time creators but you've still got the big guys who are already on the site and who are still gonna be making money regardless.

Youtube's a huge site that has grown exponentially over the years; and while Webtoons may not be backed by a giant like Google I'm sure there's still some upholding of the company being done by Naver and whatever shareholders if any. I just feel like it's more than what's being shown on the surface.

69Michi
Jan '18
Aspie_Gamer

@VibrantFox brought up a good point regarding Youtube. The new requirement essentially won't be affecting the already popular creators since their watch time is already in the stable size. I watched a video explaining it and essentially it's not that large of a requirement for an active youtuber with active viewership.

On contradictory, Webtoon's jump in tier, while we all have seen it coming from last year when they extended the program, it's still by a lot and even creators that were doing well in Discover are getting a lot less than what they used to get for the pledge. I guess that can be why:

BUT tbh, I don't think the Pledge program should be what people should criticize Webtoon for. It was supposed to end in July last year, it wasn't supposed to be continued. But they extended it. The program that is running right now is the money that we weren't promised to get at all, and that makes me feel like the jump in tier is fine even though I might not make it to the max pledge like I used to.

scythe
Jan '18

It's probably for very different reasons. I think @69Erocento is probably right with regards to LINE, the way they had it set up previously simply began to include too many comics. Any talk of them manipulating popularity of certain comics over others, beyond the regular ways they feature titles is just speculation.

With Youtube however, I feel as though this is just a first step to the site becoming less and less a platform for the free exchange of ideas. Their ideological bias is well documented, and based off their statement, this change comes across to me as less of a response to ever diminishing ad returns and more of a method of engineering consent. Don't expect these changes to end here, they will be ratcheted up and up until they've made the platform as unfriendly as possible to content creators who are spreading ideas they don't want associated with their company. Like slowly boiling a frog in a pot.

joannekwan(ง ˙o˙)ว here to help~
Jan '18

All I have to say is, yeah it sucks.
People can raise a stink all they want, but unless a TON of creators and viewers abandon these platforms within the year the companies won't bat an eye. That's just how things go.
I was shocked Patreon even rolled back their proposed changes to pledge fees.
I was ready to accept my losses and find new ways of hustling. Diversifying revenue avenues should be a top priority for any creator who wants to make money off their work.

It's a money game. Companies want to make money, but not spend it on small creators who might not make back what they spent. (could have phrased that better, but I'm tired) So they invest in people who are proven to be profitable but won't tank the company with an offensive slip up. I'm not as sure about LINE's philosophy, but that's what I'm getting from Youtube.

The internet market is never stable. Companies change their policies all the time.
It's up to creators to
1

Rochrok
Jan '18
Aspie_Gamer

I've been seeing big name Youtubers cough Boogie cough telling smaller ones affected by Youtube's asinine new policy to basically suck it up.

Yeah I was surprised to see creators like H3H3 and Boogie give this the thumbs up when they have been complaining about Youtube's demonetization of their own vids for months now. Now all they can talk about is how they've done Youtube for years without pay and it'll be okay. Perhaps they should have taken their own advice and not bother everyone with their whining.

joe_galindez
Jan '18
joannekwan

Improve. Adapt. Overcome.

Work harder and smarter? As if we aren't already working as hard and as best as we can? When are we going to find the time to actually make art?

I mean, it's good advice, up to a point, but it's a distinctly middle-class approach to things. Rich people and corporations don't think that way. Instead they ask themselves, "How can I game the system to benefit me?"

I don't see why online content creators can't have a union when so many other creative fields have them. Alternatively, why don't we discuss becoming part-owners of a platform like Tapas?

joannekwan(ง ˙o˙)ว here to help~
Jan '18

Then I welcome you to do so!

Artists can be motivated to form unions or guilds, but those can and have ended up as exclusive clubs as well.
To form a more balanced collective requires a ton of people to pitch in. And that requires more time than what's available in our already stretched thin days.

joe_galindez
Jan '18
1

You guys who make a living in this business, you all have to set aside time to line up advertisers, right? What if you used that time to accomplish the same thing, but as a group? You'd command higher rates, because less competition, and you may even save time.

Alternatively you could collectively decide to limit your content (and your revenue streams) to a single platform like Tapas and use that leverage to get paid in company shares.

EDIT: Everyone's still thinking like craftsmen, which we are, but we should also be thinking like business owners, which we are too. Why must we keep chasing the next big platform or tip jar when we're the ones laying the golden eggs around here? It's time we conspired against the general public.

lunchtiiime12
Jan '18

I fully intend to withdraw from Line Webtoon and inform my audience to come to Patreon where I will post for free. At least they ATTEMPT to give a shit about their artists. I've had it with that craphole. I'm utterly convinced the subscribers are not real people by and large.