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May 2015

An open question to all those writers/creators out there with more story-driven/long form comics. How far ahead do you plan out/write your comic/script? Do you write out/thumbnail your pages chapter by chapter or do you (if you have a webcomic with a foreseeable end) work out the fine details of the entire story first? If so, why? Are there pros or cons to this, or is it just simply how you work?

Quite simply, how many of you know where your comic is going?

I've been thinking about going chapter by chapter myself, as it's a little quicker for me. However, I do worry I may forget one or two details that end up throwing the whole story off. Or the flow throughout the comic would become awkward if I didn't look at it from beginning to end.

EDIT: Just to clarify aha, for myself when I say chapter by chapter I mean I have the general arcs planned out and a definitely rising action, climax and end. But I don't necessarily have all the individual beats or dialogue sorted out. This is something I'm ironing out chapter at a time. Regardless, this is a discussion so I'm interested in seeing what everyone else does ^^

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    May '15
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    Jul '15
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There shouldn't be a preference with this. As a creator who's worked with longform stories for a long time, going chapter to chapter will probably set you up for failure. Plan ahead. Know how things are going to tie together and end so that you don't end up with loose strings or plotholes. I did chapter-to-chapter back in my early writing days and looking back on those chapters I wrote, there's a lot of stuff that makes zero sense, doesn't tie in well, and is broken.

Plan ahead. It can be a pain at times, especially if you're not a strong writer, but you'll be saving yourself and your readers a lot of headaches in the future.

For me, I like to have a set script first before I draw any panels and these scripts usually cover the entire story because I like planning everything out and having a firm idea of where the plot is going from the get-go. Of course as I'm drawing and publishing pages I'll get new ideas and I'll insert them into the script. And since I only release one or two pages a week, I don't have to worry about burning through the script and story too quickly and I have time to edit scenes and dialogue before I draw.
For a couple of my series that I envision as more of an on-going thing like a TV series instead of a stand-alone graphic novel, I'll have multiple episode arcs scripted out.

In short, if a series does have an end, I like to plan how it will get there and map out all the major plot points. If a series is an on-going thing, I like to plan out episode arcs to make sure the characters don't become stale. Either way, I always plan ahead with scenes and dialogue before drawing anything.

I have a pretty solid outline for the whole thing. I also have a couple of hundred scenes or rather "moments" that I have written in detail. Evernote and Scrivener help a lot with this.

As I have to draw everything page by page and have a full time job that prevents me from updating more than every week or so I always end up refining and rewriting and reordering things as I go. Which is scary but also pretty thrilling. I'm imagining it will all need a proper editing session when I get to the end.

I usually script the whole thing before I start drawing. But usually, what I write in the script and what actually goes into the comic tends to vary! Sometimes the changes are to introduce visual jokes, or maybe I figure out ways to tell the story better... but the plot points and plot details are all planned. At least, thats how Outside the Box10 is done. Case 3, baby. It's gonna be huge. Tell your friends.

I have a basic idea of what's going to happen. Like I know what scenes are gonna play out, but I just don't work out every single detail about it to its finest detail, especially not the script. To me, having every detail already planned out bores me, and I like my stories to be more organic, changing/throwing away/piecing together what works and what doesn't as I go. I especially think it's important to know a beginning and an end, then work on the middle in which I try to create enough room for revisions. I'm more invested in my project when I work this way. Script-wise, I try to be at least a chapter and a half ahead of what I'm currently putting out.

Years.

Seriously, I can't imagine writing a story page to page, let alone chapter to chapter. I can't even imagine how to write without knowing the ending before you start writing!

But one thing I have learned is that a lot of people think they can write that way. And unfortunately, I have read far too many stories on the web that felt like they were being written that way.

Have a plan, as another poster said. When I am reading, I don't want to feel like the writer is winging it, I want to feel like they have a plan. Also, some of the best literary devices such as foreshadowing don't work as well without a plotted and planned story.

Eagle
(It's not easy, but it works best in the long run)

I have a fairly planned out script, but not all the individuals beats/kinks have been worked out. But I definitely know the arcs aha, I was interested to see how many people fully detail it out and how many do not. smile

The beginning, middle, and end of my comic, Shadosassins7, and all of its major plotpoints have already been planned. I've gone ahead and wrote the entire script for my comic, but aside from the key moments, they aren't set in stone. This is just to allow for some creativity when storyboarding and plannng panels. I too have wrote stories in the past with no direction and it simply doesn't work for me. At the very least you should know all major plot points and your ending before every deciding to put pen to paper (or however you make your comic). I envy anyone who can create a successful comic without planning the story ahead of time.

I see what you mean about writing blindly. I think in a case like that I see it working if you wrote the script chapter after chapter and then went back to edit all the disgraceful holes that you didn't see.

When I create a story I don't consider doing work on it as a comic until I have an end to the story. I'm not saying I have to have everything written out until the end, I'm still writing out the journey and experiences so to speak, I just know what the end of the series will be and that it will have one. Sometimes in concerns to to comics specifically, I try to have an alternate ending as well, one that unfortunately comes earlier than I would intend for if I find that I can no longer work on drawing the series anymore. It's not ideal and I would rather not use it, but it's there if I need to use it.

I also like to have major events at the least mapped out. I don't know what all these major events will be sometimes, but when I do know what they are I know how the story will get there, regardless of if the script is completely written to that point or not.

For the actual script it varies, but I always keep the writing ahead. Some series can be as little as 15 chapters ahead, others can range well into the 100's (the series that jump that far ahead though usually do so because I originally wrote the story as a novel series, and is currently being translated into a comic form) and sometimes 'written chapters' don't always translate into illustrated chapters, so some scripts end up being longer then one illustrated chapter, while others don't have enough content to make one comic chapter so I'll have to work with content from the next chapter to fix that.

For the thumbnail layout, I only work on those on a per chapter bases. I'll complete the layout and such for the chapter I intend to work on, but will not move onto the next chapter until it's done. Mostly to allow myself to improve art wise as I go through the series.

I agree with having the major plot points ordered and worked out. I guess it leaves space for you to breathe as you sort out the smaller beats that happen inbetween.

I'm similair-sih I have an outline for the whole thing, I have several chapters laid out in advance as plot points. as for scripts i tend to do those a chapter or 2 in advance. I know my beginning, my middle and my end very well plot wise.

same as you I can .... get bored of things if they're SET IN STONE but i like some stability in my direction I KNOW what needs to happen and where they need to go. Mannerisms and speech I like to RP out in my head a few times to get right before deciding on it in a script.

I thought I might add that writing out a script allows you to foreshadow, which is one of the most intriguing pieces of good stories. Planning out the details aren't as important, and they likely will change. Sometimes most of the script can change or be fixed because a script isn't permanent. It's a tool to support you, and generally ease the stress of being both the author AND artist, which are pretty overwhelming jobs even by themselves.

Well I script the story at least 20-30 pages ahead of the comic pages, I don't set anything in stone because once it's time for me to actually draw the pages I find that I come up with something that I think works better than what I scripted a week or a month ago. Basically I put what I generally want to happen in the script knowing that it will change when it gets to the drawing phase. Usually when I start to draw a page I start out with rough thumbnails on one side of the page and some written script on the other side, I call it thumb scripting.

For about a year I was doing the chapter by chapter business. I had an idea of where it would go, but I was pretty much exploring the characters and their rapport. I then traded critiques with a fellow comic creator and realised that ā€¦ he was right, I needed to clean up my goals! I had also read something by another comic creator who said they scripted everything out and even knew how many pages a comic would be. I was floored. The page count! Does anyone else do this?

But I didn't quite go that far. I knew the main points, arcs, etc already. I had just been filling in the blanks as I went along. I used to write scripts by hand (and I do still write out those quick ideas in my notebook), but one day I happened to have my computer but not the notebook and I just began typing and never stopped. Somehow, within days, I had the entire script defined.

Sometimes a change in my routine can do that. That was probably the best feeling in the world, when I reached the end. I was floating around for days in this glorious haze like, I know where it ends. I have the end. Ah, natural comic highs.

Anyway, the whole thing is planned out. That doesn't mean I am not messing around with it every week! I move chapters around, cut some, add some, etc as it suits the needs of the story. I also have it set out in twine, which is software for making text games, because I can write out main points or things that need to be addressed and just move them around on the board to make sure I am not forgetting them (by accident). It helps me keep track of main points, events, actions and things that need to be revealed before such-and-such incident. (btw if anyone is curious about twine, it's free, you can get it here: http://twinery.org6)

tl;dr: Whole script done. I edit very, very carefully about ten chapters in advance. I story-board chapter by chapter. End is absolutely set; other things may move as necessary!

I have a very general outline spanning the entire story of Grassblades6 - from beginning to the very end. And by "very general", I mean my first chapter is summed up as follows - "Masahiro and Akane meet --> they go to town, he leaves her". That turned into 33 pages and got a BUNCH more details filled in and more stuff tacked onto the end once I sat down and actually started working on the chapter - but the outline is good to have, because it allows me to have an idea of where I'm going, and where each scene needs to end up.

But it's also so general that I can adapt it.

I mean, I know who each of the major characters are/will be, and I know where they'll show up in the story, and I know how everything ends. But I have creative freedom when it comes to HOW all of that stuff happens, and I'm free to add scenes or subtract scenes wherever I feel it's necessary.

I then script the story chapter by chapter; I decide which general notes of the outline should go into one single chapter, and then I sit down with a pencil and some paper and I start storyboarding and writing the dialogue together. I really can't write it all as just plain text and THEN do the storyboards; they kind of have to grow together for me.

This process allows me just the right amount of structure to keep me headed in the right direction, and just the right amount of structure to keep me from getting bored AND allowing me to fix things that weren't super-great in my outline (because you KNOW there are gonna be some of those; sometimes, we can't see the problems before you run into them). For example - I realised that I needed my secondary characters to show up a little more often to keep people from forgetting them, so there's a brand new scene in chapter four that doesn't exist in the outline, and there's another coming up in chapter... six, I think? Also, I can do a bunch of foreshadowing of stuff, because I know where we're going.

I also have a buffer of pages, so that I'm VERY far ahead of what's being posted online (55 pages ahead, at last count) - this means that once I finish drawing a chapter, I can go back and tweak and adapt the dialogue one last time, if that's necessary.

I don't write the ENTIRE story by script first because my mind does tend to change as I go along, I know what I want especially for the beginning, middle and ending. The way I make stories is well...I think a bit odd. When I do the writing it tends to change drastically in the storyboards and thumbnails, even though that does tend to happen I just use the script to give me a basic idea on what to do for the scenes. I guess I just write better by pictures shrugs

I have my whole story planned with ideas written down in points- to remember what I need to include, parts that are the most important for the story and some random dialogues. As for detailed script/thumbnails, I am a chapter ahead. So before I start working on chapter 2, I draw storyboard for chapter 3. This way I still have time to change it if I get some new ideas c: (though of course there are also some last-minute changes while drawing).

It depends on the storyline for me. Some are longer and need more preparation. Some I write page by page.

So far I have every scene plotted down to the exact number of pages up to about 180 pages worth, which encapsulates a beginning, middle and end, but in truth, I've only actually plotted the final script up to page 35.

The main timeline from beginning to end is plotted out before I even draw the first page. Little events that build on character exposition but do not influence the story course are inserted as the story progresses and I think on it more. Finally the actual dialogue is done when I work on the chapter-by-chapter thumbnails.

Well planning ahead can be good but some of the best mangas weren't exactly planned, e.g. Dragon Ball and Saint Seiya were made week by week (without really planning) Toriyama has said he simply continued the story as it went..

Then you have One Piece or Naruto which are mangas that were planned since waaay long.

Then you have BLEACH which is an example of what can happen if you don't plan ahead..

As for me, for S.elf I dont really plan anything, I have the story in my head and since it's simple I can just continue as I draw.
As for Pulta, I have a ser of guidelines for each character, what will happen to Then, stuff like that, but not the dialogues and stuff, nothing specific, unless there's a phrase I want to use I write it in the chatacter's pages I have.

Yes, but the difference between most creators and serialized manga artists is that serialized manga artists have editors to keep track and pay attention to that sort of stuff (especially since the editors can often be the ones offering direction in how a story should go - that's their job).

Most creators are working on their own (and I say most because yes, some are working for companies, ex. Mikiko, and others are working with writers/artists as a team, ex. Reon Merryweather) and so it's best to start practicing and getting into the habit of crafting a good story through and through instead of trying to wing it. There's no downside to it - all it does is help you work out kinks in your story, make sure everything fits and works, and assures that you'll tell the best story that you can produce. Winging it only works for some people, and most of those stories are shorter and not as long and complex as series like One Piece, Bleach, Naruto, etc. (IMO, Bleach should have ended after the Aizen/Hueco Mundo arc, at the end of Volume 48; and One Piece isn't even half-done yet!)

Not to mention, while it still stands as one of the most popular animes to date, DB is not a good example of a well written piece of work. It's inconsistent, most of the love for the series comes from nostalgia and the high-action fight scenes, and DBZ has been said to be even worse. Lots of people love the Cell/Freeza/etc. saga but that was considered the highest point of that show, and everything else got most of its charm from its crazy martial arts sequences. The story itself is all over the place, and you're not really justifying your point by pointing out the fact that Akira Toriyama made it as he went along - cause if you look really closely and actually start thinking and looking for the plotholes/inconsistencies/etc., you can really, really tell.

(that being said I do love DB and have nothing against it, and don't want to start a fight over that lol DB is an awesome show/manga <3)

I have a basic outline of most of my story and usually tightly script the chapter I am working on.

But as it happens, my husband kinda became my editor and threw in new ideas and different perspectives all the time. So now I really only know what is going to happen scene by scene, which keeps it exciting for me as the illustrator. To make sure that we are not driving into a dead end, we often discuss what is going to happen in the more distant future. My husband asks questions and points out plot holes, or tells me when something is really just very stupid.

But the basic outline of the story definitely has to be set in stone - and I know exactly where everything is going to go to and how it all will end.

Far I would say, I've pretty much written the whole story from beginning to end with each chapter being a very detailed summary... Or more like a 10 page essay per chapter or something. But the script I will work on 1-3 chapters as I go based on the summary written. I have read the summary through and made adjustments, but when it comes to the script, I still tend to make more changes :\

Everyone will work differently - if you have a very detailed sort of story, definitely go the planning route to avoid plot holes and missing things out. The older versions of the series I am working on now has me going directly to a script, no summary, and a couple of dot points on the different arcs and events (a bit like how you are working now maybe??) I found this worked terribly for the kind of story I'm writing, it's also added pressure to make up good content as you go. A more meticulous method was needed for me ;_;

Well, I think it depends on who I am writing it for. If it is for fun, free, independent work, then it is rigidly planned out. My story, Beautiful Lies1, has every chapter planned out. Every event is planned out. I begin with a summary of each chapter, then a synopsis, then the thumbnails.

If it was a comic to be serialized, like my Hunter's Paradigm, I make sure I have the beginning planned out. Then I have a rough idea of how I want the story to go and I have an idea of how I want it to end. The rest is left up to the editor and how long they tolerate me before they want to get rid of me.

Same here, I was referring to the whole series. I have the beginning, middle, and end planned. Little events in between I have planned, but they are necessarily set in stone.

Hard question!
Everyone has a different process.
You gotta start with the big picture and then go more and more into details.
For Shades Of Men1 I knew how it started, how it ended and scenes I wanted to have.
I then scoped in connection in between moments.

I set twelve chapters, in which I know how it starts and how it ends...
From that I do a quick thumbnail at each beginning of chapters to plan the layout.

I didn't write the full scenario but rather summaries of each chapters.
The rest, I leave it flexible to work on the go.
So far... so good!

1 month later

In my heyday I was writing for about five comics a week - I can't remember the total number of stories. But for two comics published by IPC I was writing for half the characters in "Buster" and half the characters in "Whizzer & Chips." Most were one page stories with 10-12 panels. The others were two page strips with a maximum of 24 panels. Then there were the D. C. Thomson comics. Some one page, others up to three pages. On top of this once a month I was doing two other comics, "Commando" and "Starblazer." Each was 64 pages long with 123/124 panels. They required a story pitch followed by 2-3 page synopsis before I could work on the scripts. I would spend Monday and Tuesday doing rough scripts in a notebook and the rest of the week typing them up. Fortunately I've always suffered from an over-active imagination which proved to be a great help.

I usually have all the major arcs, events and turning points planned out (and of course, the ending, which is A MUST when it comes to planning.)
When it comes to scripting individual chapters though, I usually write the entire thing first and then start drawing thumbnails for my pages. I do the thumbnails so I can get an idea of the composition, camera angles, paneling etc. before doing the final pages.

I wrote out the entire story of R:ILPERSONA1 from start to finish prior to ever writing the actual scripts. That way it helped me to develop general plot points that I needed to hit to advance the story, develop characters, add foreshadowing, etc.

Then I began plotting out the different arcs in between said plot points, fleshing out everything even further through an outline (a massive...massive outline). Then I developed a story bible, to flesh out the world, characters, designs, abilities so that I could keep everything consistent and also develop character traits, personality quirks, backstories, etc.

And then I started writing the scripts(and rewriting...editing...revising -_-). Its not as simple as it sounds because this was years of work prior to ever getting a single page completed but if I'm not leaving anything out that's the general crux of my writing process smiley

I don't have a script for my comics. I always have some idiotic thing happens to me during the week and I use that for my comic.

Yeah, I agree with what you've said about freedom...I always write with the thought in mind that "okay...this is where I need to steer the story...but i may want to leave room to change how the characters get there"

I don't believe in writing yourself into a corner XD

I have a generic outline for the chapters coming.
Then I draw a rough draft of the next chapter (called a name in manga). I don't really write scripts out, I let the characters do their thing and let the words and events form organically.

My web comic, Marty and Spud--coming to Tapastic soon!--is a daily on-going strip, but it has specific story arcs that run about 6-8 weeks (sometimes longer). I try to stay about 8 weeks ahead on plot/script, 4 weeks ahead on pencils/script, 3 weeks on inks and two weeks on color.

I usually come up with a very loose plot outline that tells the story (usually bout two-three pages). I then break that plot down into weekly components that I reference when doing the thumbnails/pencils/scripting.

I find that if I have the generally story beats down and the weekly "events" pacing worked out, that I can actually script the story while I'm doing the thumbnails/pencils. (Kind of a sideways version of the "Marvel Method" of making comics).

Does that help?

Cheerio-

MPH

I have one hell of a pickle;
I've been working on my story since high-school 2 years ago. During that time, I managed to think up a load of stuff I wanna put in my comic. The different arcs, the different events, the different scenes, etc.
But most of the time, I have no idea how I tie all of those together, to form a... plot. So I mostly count on whatever idea I have during the times I draw my pages, and hope that they all add up, by the time I've finished drawing the chapter.

Somehow.

_(:"