Damnnn I’ve seen this but yah, this exactly is the point. Like if movies like Pinocchio had used humour from that era, not only would it be totally totally different in the future, it just makes the movie age poorly.
I really love this creator though, she’s got a really unique view of things-
yeah that would be cool. on the other hand i like how to train your dragon, so it's not a 100% rule. and im pretty sure i will like this movie once i get a chance to watch it. my complaint is more of preferences.
or maybe im just upset raya seems like a ghibli movie in some areas, but seems to fall just short.
Ah yes, old Disney is all my childhood. I remember back when I used to watch the "Sword in the stone" film on repeat: it was my favourite. I don't know why, but their style had something so... magical to it, so mysterious and beautiful.
I don't know why, but all of their old animations have a different charm and even when I was a kid I noticed this kind of different vibe.
Now I'll go cry, because you just triggered my nostalgia 
Agreed. There is just something timeless about the older films. I can't comment on Raya just yet as I haven't seen it, but I just don't have the same wonder and excitement as I once did when new 2D animated movies would come out.
Some of the things I miss from the "old days":
* the beauty and fluidity of the animation (This is a personal bias but I STRONGLY prefer 2D animation.)
* the villains just got to be villains and sing about being villains. Almost EVERY new Disney/Pixar villain is a TWIST/End reveal (with Mother Gothel being the exception.)
* Romance. I like a cool independent princess too, but the trend is to not have "prince" characters the new princess movies. (Raya, Moana, Brave). I'm a sucker for Disney couples! Almost every prince/princess had a prince/princess counterpart in the old films.
*This timelessness and artistic/storytelling mastery that was so present in the older works (including 90's films). Some of the newer films (while I really enjoyed them) seem a little clunky or cobbled with pacing or narrative issue that seem out of place.
I think of all the new films, "Tangled" comes closest to having that classic feeling the good ole films used to showcase. (Great villain, catchy tunes, beautiful scenery, and a fairytale romance.)
I don't really get the point of twist villains. even most adult media doesn't have twist villains. the only stuff i can think of with a twist villain that's actually good is something like star wars where darth vadar is the villain, but there's someone even more powerful that's not revealed or developed until the end.
and also crime dramas teehee
Try and get to see Wolfwalkers. It has a classic/experimental aesthetic.
Excellent voice acting.
Villain is clear cut with clear motivations and resolution.
The kind of film Disney studios should of been making.
I don't think that this is true in many cases, especially with classic animation. Pinocchio didn't feature pop culture references, but its sense of humor was exactly in line with its era. Other contemporary Disney films--e.g. Fantasia, Dumbo--featured things that are exceedingly 40s, especially with the racist caricatures in both of those films. Besides the parts that have grown offensive over time, the movies still hold well just because they are very well made.
Contrast to Looney Tunes, which certainly used all sorts of pop culture references and even outright parody (Bugs Bunny eating carrots was a spoof of a famous 30s film), and fares about the same. While those shorts are certainly products of their time now (and there are PLENTY of morally repugnant shorts from the Merrie Melodies roster), the best of those are basically eternal classics just like Disney's films. Maybe the references fly over modern audiences, but the jokes sure still land.
A similar transformation is happening to the 90s era Disney films, but more importantly it's already happened to the 90s era WB/Spielberg cartoons--Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, Pinky & the Brain, et. al. Those were and still are considered some of the best of all TV animation, but they were also jam-packed with so many pop culture references that sometimes you need an encyclopedia to get the jokes now even if you were alive at the time. But even with that, they haven't aged POORLY; they're still just as good now as they were thirty years ago.
I guess none of this matters that much to the topic of this Raya movie, but I am betting that it's no more contemporary or wacky than Aristocats was in the 70s or Mulan was in the 90s. And if it's good, it'll age just as well as all other Disney movies in 20 or 30 years' time.
The only Disney animation movies I've seen in the past many years are Zootopia and Wreck-it Ralph, though, so maybe timelessness isn't really something that's ever crossed my mind anyway lol
I just echo the opinion that I miss the villains from the old animated Disney movies. There's a simplicity there, we didn't have to understand their upbringing or background, just that they were out for blood and nothing would stop them.
The humour is definitely in line For Pinocchio, I’d agree (tho also it’s been a long time since I’ve seen it) and i definitely didn’t even want to touch dumbo because the reason you underlined, as for the animaniacs/picky and the brain, and all those Warner Brother products of the same vein, I Would personally give that a pass more because it’s design was supposed to be funny, they are strictly comedies, the jokes were supposed to be zany and borrow from our world, like the simpsons for example.
I think the important thing is for Disney to figure out what it wants to be/the tone it wants to set. I can’t believe they are aiming to come off as a WB cartoon unlike something like Hotel Transylvania (which also has a lot of references, which are totally hilarious and well suited to the story) but Most of Disney’s stories are about storytelling, and for me at least combined with picking celebrity actors over decent voice actors, the jokes don’t fit with the material. It’s like a cheap laugh.
You have really good points about Mulan, but just like Eddie Murphy was A very spirited voice actor, the parts that were the pop culture humour references were my least favourite as compared to his genuinely good shtick with the cricket and mulan. It’s the same with the gargoyles in Hunch back of Notre Dame (which most people I’ve talked to weren’t a big fan of). I get, these characters and their punch lines are supposed to cut the very serious moments of war/oppression and racism, but they do it very awkwardly and often not well. Although obviously you want them to be children friendly (which I believe you still can do even if the content isn’t 100% happy ending) but if you want a story to have gravitas, you shouldn't split the tone up as much. Much like the Ghibli film Spirited away Was made I think in 2000-ish It has its moments of comedy, but it’s not In itself a comedy Like animaniacs, it isn’t the place for lines that will take audiences out of the movie. Oh or avatar you get TONES of humour, but you’re not going to risk tone or world building by throwing in a 2000s pop culture reference that shouldn’t even exist in that world.(The cabbages scene is perfect for this, no one has to know anything about cabbages, it’s just funny)
I feel like that’s a lot from me, your points definitely gave me a lot to think about, but I think for the most part I’d still keep the idea there’s a time and place for pop culture humour, for the most part, it just doesn’t really belong in a totally different Fantasy world where the main focus isn’t humour And you can still get hilarious scenes without referencing back to our world. But on the other hand I don’t dislike pop culture references (again, I very much enjoyed hotel Transylvania, the simpsons and animaniacs tho I haven’t got around to watching the new one)
Sleeping Beauty was my favorite growing up, and I still think it's visually lovely, but the last time I watched it (as a teenager) I had to cringe a bit at how useless that princess was. This is kind of the issue with those older movies... it was a different era, when princesses mostly waited around to be rescued and sometimes spent half the film in a coma, but I did like the tone of the old school fairy tale that they used.
Personally I think Beauty and the Beast really hit the sweet spot in terms of balance. The leads were able to bring a certain amount of gravitas to the darker moments (and Belle was reasonably badass), but with plenty of silly side characters to keep things light. Also, because the beast was the "straight man" (in comedy terms) the more lighthearted moments involving him brought a different kind of humor than having all of the characters cracking jokes all the time. Plus Gaston is basically a frat boy, and what more believable villain could there be?? My main criticism is that as soon as the beast was returned to his human form I was like "ew, turn him back" lmao.
I think the next movie, Aladdin, was the tipping point into pop culture reference hell. Don't get me wrong, I love that movie and Robin WIlliams as the Genie, but after his 1000 different impersonations it seemed like they just went further and further down that path.
I mean.... beauty and the beast is my favourite Disney film, so I am very biased, but yah I agree It strikes a beautiful balance. (Tho I liked the prince but I think that’s just differences in taste).
Haha to be fair I was 5 when Beauty and the Beast came out, so at the end I was kind of like "Who TF is this stranger and what has he done with grumpy teddy bear man??"
Beauty and the Beast is a perfect movie to me (hits all the right notes). Great princess who is smart and sassy, but still very kind and empathetic (without having to go into the "Strong Female Character" trope while still actually being a strong female character.) Love The Beast, excellent villain, flawless music, beautiful animation, excellent atmosphere, and the silly characters were funny for the kids but not too annoying to the adults. They added to the film instead of distracting from it. Still my favorite Disney film and one of my general favorite films. I also loved Beast and was kind like WTF when he transformed! XD. While the new live-action version doesn't quite hold up to the animated, I really appreciated when Emma Watson asked the prince if he could grow a beard at the end.
I saw Raya last night and my first reaction was...why does everyone sound so modern?! It didn't fit the era they were working with or characters XD The movie itself had so many loop holes and it just felt like a Disney parody than a Disney movie...the previous films even up to Moana just had this unspoken charm about them and oomf of Disney magic that I felt was lacking big time in Raya...which really sucks cause this could have been a great movie.
I liked the visuals and the soundtrack but that was basically it 
(also, for those who saw it did anyone else notice that there were no songs for once? XD)
I miss Disney movies having a clear, actual villain, not "surprise" villains or abstract concepts (the REAL villain is hurt feelings). I also miss them dying instead of going to jail or being redeemed. Villains are cool because their amoral and evil, not because we need to empathize with them.
I sort of miss the old styling of music in Disney movies. Sherman Brothers, Allan Menken, and Hans Zimmer added such amazing scores to the films they worked on. I just find a lot of the current stuff just underwhelming or forgettable. I think Moana is the only current Disney film that has an overall strong soundtrack. Most of the other ones might have only one or two songs I enjoy.
I sort of miss the classic Disney I want songs and love ballads. Yeah they were cheesy, musicals have always been overally dramatic. I am sort of sick of Disney making fun of it's past, they act like, "Look at these old films, so cheesy. We aren't cheesy anymore! We're COOL!!!" But then they make Wreck It Ralph 2 which is internet pandering garbage. Frozen 2 was a mismatch mess. I haven't seen Raya but I am a bit worried about it.
I don't think all the 3d Disney/Pixar films are bad. I did enjoy Big Hero 6, Wreck it Ralph, Zootopia, Moana, Coco, and Soul. A lot of the others however I found bland or forgettable. Or in the case of Toy Story 4, OK but pointless.
Hah yeah, though it's not too much of a surprise because Disney has made animations that don't have songs in them, maybe it was a little because it was a movie in their 'princess line up' but It was more like, at a certain point of the movie I realized "Oh, this one doesn't have singing" and that was about it.
The movie itself was uhh... I mean it wasn't bad, but it wasn't good either. Was very meh. Though I'm SEA so my crit with it could be considered a lot more personal than my crit with other Disney movies, which I will not get into in this thread because I don't want to go off topic too much.
I do miss the old tone of Disney! I feel like the new way the characters speak becomes especially clear when I listen to the Finnish dubs. The old Finnish Disney dubs sound great, sometimes I even prefer them to the original ones, but the new ones really bother me. They speak like teenagers from a specific dialect area and it really bugs me. So not only does it sound too modern but it also sounds out of place, too.
Disney and Dreamworks are definitely both guilty of this but it's interesting how the smaller studios are still creating timeless movies. For example Kubo had excellent voice acting in my opinion and it fit the mood quite well. Same with Coraline. I wonder if maybe the bigger studios are just trying anyway they can to make a popular movie and somehow think this is the right way to do it.
I loved the movie but I do wish the dragon was less modern!! I really felt like the dragon's voice was similar to Mushu or some sort of comedic relief, when I expected the "last dragon" to be... I dunno, more than a silly sidekick. And the dragon made some modern references that felt out of place in an ancient setting.
