End Product Vs. The Process

[Ringarune]

As an artist, I love using digital tools like perspective rulers and speech bubbles to make my art process more efficient and I think using reference is also a great practice. On the other hand, I don't consider something like tracing a photo to be the same as copying it by hand. This leads me to wonder if there is a line somewhere between using your resources efficiently and for lack of a better word "cheating" your way.

I guess in essence this question is about product vs. process. Do you think only the end product matters, that the process is the most important part, or that you think it's a combination of the two? Or maybe do you think it's not even possible to have a good end product without really knowing what you're doing?

For me, it's a really tough question since I can see the merits of all sides. I think I would say it's somewhere in the middle though. For certain projects I can see the end product being the most important. For example a lot of people use sketchup models for comics. It gives a nice finish and also helps them release their work faster. On the other hand, I think there's just something magical about someone understanding so much about art that they can draw anything out of their imagination. I dunno, I just really like art because it takes time and effort to get good at it. The thought that anyone could be as good as an artist that took years to understand and master their craft in a way kind of scares me.

Well that's just me though, curious to know what you all think?

[keii4ii]

For me, it depends. As an example, no one would consider it cheating to C&P a photo into the work if it's obviously marked as a photomanip. But it would be cheating to do that if it's submitted to a traditional pencil drawing contest.

So within the webcomic context, deadlines are usually a high priority, and tracing one pose off a stock photo or a posable 3d model generally isn't a big deal. But if you're not just copying the pose, but also the composition, that becomes iffy for me. VERY iffy, even, depending on how close it is to the source material (and is the source material not stock/ etc? That would also be a factor).

IMO, the key is understanding that different people can have different goals, in different situations. For me, understanding the anatomy and perspective is an important goal, so it would be cheating if I started copying photo refs as a crutch. It might not be unethical if I'm allowed to use the source material that way, but I would be cheating on myself.

At the same time, I gotta acknowledge not every artist shares that goal, and it doesn't make them less worthy or whatever. e.g. If someone just wants to be the world's best colorist, and doesn't care about improving their drawing skills, that's a perfectly valid goal, you know?

[Nugtown]

For me this is pretty cut and dry. Tracing images you haven't made yourself is cheap. It's cheating, and I don't think there's any reason for it. To add insult to injury, I find that artists in the comic industry who do this pretty much always make some effort to keep it a secret- especially in the case where they simply photomanip their backgrounds in. But in the case of using perspective rulers and tools in general, you're still doing all of the work yourself, they just aid you in completing the image.
I'm pretty rigid about people manipping their backgrounds in and passing it off as being hand drawn, and traced work in general because people will still praise their work like it was passed from the heavens. Burns me to the bone.

[LordVincent]

I never really felt compelled to trace a background or pose since I found it much easier to just learn a habit of drawing such things and then using that habit. It goes much faster once you know how to make it yourself from scratch, since you don't go about spending that time taking pictures or looking for free-to-use ones.

That being said, as has been previously stated in this thread, we all go about things differently and all have different goals. Just make sure you don't trace a copyrighted photo/picture from someone who hasn't specifically stated it can be used freely.

[shazzbaa]

I don't think there's anything better about going the harder way just for the sake of doing it the harder way. And I DEFINITELY don't think that drawing something "from imagination" is better than using reference -- that's like saying "being able to spell a word is better than looking it up in the dictionary!" Obviously, it's nice if you remember how to spell words, but the first time you have to spell a word, you're going to have to look it up. And if there are words that give you trouble, it's better to keep looking them up than to just guess. There's nothing impressive about guessing -- it's impressive when you've looked it up enough times to commit it to memory.

Here's the thing -- it's disingenuous to claim you did something by hand when you didn't, but I don't think it's "cheating" to do something in an easier way or a way that works better for you. (Tracing is a special case because, unless you have rights to the image, tracing would infringe someone's copyright). But how a resource is used matters. There are artists who use sketch-up for reference and create beautiful environments. There are other artists who use sketch-up for reference, and you look at the final product and think "haha wow this creator definitely uses sketch-up." You still have to know what you're doing to use it well.

As one of my professors in college said, "It's a tool -- I don't require students to build their own brushes out of hair, or mix their own paint out of pigments." Using tools isn't cheating just because it's faster.

"Is this cheating" seems like the wrong question -- I think the only questions that come into it are, (a) is your use of this tool holding you back from growing as an artist, and (b) do you care? I use a process of layers and layer effects to help me colour quickly. I'm happy with the end result! But I also recognise that this means I don't get any practice with choosing colours, so I try to take time to work with colours and colour palettes and choosing my own colours outside of the comic.
Does that mean using those tools the way I do is cheating? No! but leaning on those tools does prevent me from growing that specific skill. So I have to decide if that skill is something that's important to me.

[revisionstudios]

Shazzbaa already said it pretty well, but I want to reiterate one key point: the way you use a reference and if it is """bad""" or not depends on if YOUR ownership of the image.

If it's:
Someone elses artwork? Use only for inspiration or for emulation of a part of it (like practicing a technique). If you take any more than that, don't sell the piece or pass it off as all you.
Someone elses photo? Pose, anatomy, clothing, prop reference. Don't copy the entire thing or claim the composition.
You bought a stock photo or found a free one? Use any way you like! It's nice to give credit though, and some free ones require this.
You took the picture? YOU CAN DO WHATEVER THE HECK YOU WANT, EVEN TRACE IT. And you don't have to feel bad about it because it's yours.

Using reference, even tracing, doesn't suddenly make you a good artist, but it DOES accelerate your learning. If I'm having a lot of trouble with a hand, a foot, or a particular pose with a weapon--I have no shame in posing in front of a mirror, taking a picture with my cellphone, and tracing over it. Sometimes tracing is the fastest way to really start understanding the form of whatever you're drawing. And these days? I hardly need to take photos anymore, I've just learned how to draw those things better.

That doesn't mean you should start tracing everything. Learning how to observe and translate what you see to paper is a very important skill too. It's a mix, and using different things for different situations is 100% okay. Maybe for the comic, speed is more important, and maybe for an illustration you just want to push yourself on your own merits. Do both!

[Nivardy]

I'm entirely new to this, but I've been really resonating with this lately.

I read in a book by Brad Guigar in The Webcomic Handbook that using your own tools and resources is not cheating, even if used for a shortcut. Yet paradoxically, is cheating. He phrased it like, "cheating your own artistic development". I do believe this in a small way. I do think we ( or at least I) throw away a chance to grow in our weak areas. I used a photo reference of my room and my hand in order to capture a realistic drawing, and I felt like it was cheating in a way.

Now, thanks to the insight of the question, I think I've got an "answer".

The end product, whether we realize it or not, is a part of an ongoing process to become better artists. Like if you use the perspective rulers enough, you'll get perspective as a concept.

This may be overly romantic, but each time we create. We become scientists in a way, learning about what we're trying to capture. We may even experiment and research.

I'm also amazed by great artists who know how to draw anything that comes to mind. That being said, I only see the good they do. I can't see the amount of struggle and error that they went through to reach their point. I'm sure most had to use tools too.

This...helped me, honestly. Thank you for asking this question!

[sovember]

This is a great topic. I think there definitely is a line, but in the end of the day the consequence of doing something like tracing a photo is mostly impacting the artist. Many readers wouldn't notice or care if you traced a background for instance, but what you are doing is cheating yourself of growing as an artist in terms of being versatile and independent. But as a coder, I am definitely lenient when it comes to "not reinventing the wheel" and taking shortcuts. As long as you aren't straight up copy and pasting, I really don't see the problem, just be aware that you're sacrificing growing your skills for the sake of efficiency, if that is OK with you than more power to you.

[Luminosophy]

Ultimately I'm a live and let live type.

However at the end of the day in my opinion, artists best learn the hard way. I don't like using sketch up because even if it increases work flow because you're forgoing a lot of crucial experience. Because the knowledge of that structure didn't come from you, it's also going to "lie" about your art somehow, someway. Something about it will not match up with everything else. And like Lord Vincent mentioned, it actually ends up being way more time efficient. I could spend a hours making up a model, applying filters, exporting it, tracing it, drawing over it to adhere to the comic's world or just spend half an hour sketching out something I imagine that is much more specific to what I want.

I'm a huge stickler for everything being hand drawn. That isn't to say don't use photo references, but there's a difference between designing a composition and structural designs in your mind and referencing 5 different photo elements to help you achieve it, or just tracing over a structure, adding a few things and calling it a day.

Basically there's a difference between using a crutch and using a tool.

[shazzbaa]

However at the end of the day in my opinion, artists best learn the hard way. I don't like using sketch up because even if it increases work flow because you're forgoing a lot of crucial experience. Because the knowledge of that structure didn't come from you, it's also going to "lie" about your art somehow, someway.

One of my professors was kinda old-school and intense, really believed in achieving perfection in his work -- building an environment that would really work and never fudging a single bit of perspective or lighting. He didn't seem to believe in shortcuts in his own work -- he always wanted to do it right.
And when he had to deal with a tricky architectural element, what did he do? Build the whole structure out of styrofoam and cardboard, in real life. He would build a structure that he could observe, that he could turn in space and examine from different angles, in order to learn and understand fundamentally how that space worked so he could portray it more accurately. We'd never look at that practice and say, "you're cheating yourself."

Look, I don't use sketchup myself, because learning a new program sounds hard and drawing perspective grids makes more sense to my brain than building 3-D models. But for some folks, it clicks, and it helps them understand how that environment exists in space, the same as my no-shortcuts-no-cheats professor's styrofoam model helps him.

And that's why I say it depends on how you use it. You can slap together a basic model and trace it and learn nothing; you can also build a model and use that model as a tool to learn and understand. Using sketch-up isn't inherently one or the other.

[Luminosophy]

I'm not really sure you understood what I meant. I'm talking about the way people use it, the ones who heavily trace or otherwse use it as a crutch rather than something to learn from. I don't really think it's worth using certain tools until you know how to do it by hand. So that when you do utilize it, you have the skill necessary yourself, you're just using some basic structural shapes to build something quickly but the rest is created by your own hand. It's like using photoshop grass brushes instead of never learning how to render grass yourself. There's artists who use those 'stamp' brushes, and some even made them themselves. But if you'd ask them to paint that texture they can still do it by hand and because of that are able to temper the brush so that it doesn't look awful, which is very easy to do with a static texture.

Overall I personally don't find value in the program because of the reasons above, but I recognize it's worth as a referencing tool.

[allenthomas]

The google definition of ART
art- the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power

Very little is said about the method used to get this expression of yours accomplished and it can be done in a multitude of ways, some not even discovered yet.

My view is if you've created an original piece regardless of if you've traced or not, more power to you. If you stolen someone else work and claimed it as your own with little to no effort to make your own art, that's shady. If you find yourself growing as a creator or an artist that is the important thing. I can't completely knock someone for using the tools they have for what it's for as long as it's honest. (Not like "I copied and pasted the Mona Lisa, but I put her in a rainforest painting look at my original work!"