How do I make an arbitrary social convention of the narrative feel believable?

[JoshRaed]

Because so far I've been getting asked why a member of the royal family singing would be seen as taboo or feminine, and there's no real explanation other than "Because it's how they think" which is the same reason for a lot of weird social things, like the reason why pink is for girls or why crossdressing is seen as dangerous.

The only solution I can think of would be to invent a longer history behind why and how it came to be that way and the social conventions behind it, but that wouldn’t fix the problem unless I put the whole thing in the script which I don’t think anyone wants me to do.

[IndigoShirtProd]

First of all, if someone is asking in specific why a character is acting a certain way, it's because they're actions are deviating away from whatever character traits you have attributed to the character. If a timid character is all of the sudden making bold moves with no other reason that it's convenient to the plot ans it gets the story to where you want it to be, you’ve written a poor character.

Next, if it's arbitrary, why are you getting caught up on explaining that detail.

why crossdressing is seen as dangerous

Cross dressing is dangerous? What does putting on a skirt when you identify as male all of a sudden give you a heart attack?

but it would really bog the story down to throw in a fictional gender studies lesson.

Who said you have to put it in the story. Wow building is important because it build up the believability and the intrigue of a story. But, if you world build that doesn't mean you have to put all of your content in the story. No one wants that. Not even the person questioning you. I would put a lot of money on the idea that the reason they're asking you about supposedly arbitrary details is because whatever remaining content you have in your story isn't enough to suspend their disbelief. Why are they asking about things that seemingly don't matter? Because there's not enough content otherwise worth commenting on!

[BoomerZ]

We use short hand of our own society to explain why our fantasy society is the way it is. Hence why fantasy medieval worlds have castles, even though as soon as you have dragons and other flying creatures they would be obsolete. It's why those same setting use absolutely dumb timelines of thousands of years but somehow they are still using swords and shields in combat. But as long as you say "it's like japan when samurai exist" most of the ground work is done. The problem is when you start doing things "because that is how it works in my world" that people start asking why. Take for example the men in dresses. If the men in your world wear dresses (I'm talking frilly looking stuff, not just tunics) because in your world they just do, this is not going to be a good enough answer. The audience doesn't want to hear that as it's basically saying "because".

That easy out works on children's books (Harry Potter) and the like because you're not suppose to think too deeply about them. For a more mature book, you need explanations that work. The more fantastical the setting, the easier the explanation. Star Trek made a career out of dumb, non-science explanations but they did give them.

When it comes to characters, it has the same thing. Until you have explain or shown why a person will do a thing, the audience needs that personality to fit what you visually described it to be. If the drunk is suddenly super smart, tell people why. IF the smart person is suddenly a fool, tell them why. There is a social contract between reader and writer that you can only break by explaining why it is different than what you have put out there at first.

[JoshRaed]

What does putting on a skirt when you identify as male all of a sudden give you a heart attack?

No I'm talking about the fact that some idiots actually think that a man in a dress is a sign of the end times or will turn kids gay, even though the idea that it's in any way strange is an arbitrary social convention of the times, and if an Alien came to earth and wanted me to explain why this is I would not be able to.

[cherrystark]

In general, if a convention can be figured out using basic context clues, don't explain it. Sometimes the answer "this is how society functions" is a valid answer. A common problem with writers and worldbuilding is that they spend WAY too much effort explaining the nitty gritty details of the world and it throws off the plot. But for example you have a plot element such as clothing or hairstyles that are critical to the events in the plot, even if it's somehow "silly", take time to explain it. Readers can forgive a lot if the plot choices are logical.

Cross dressing is dangerous? What does putting on a skirt when you identify as male all of a sudden give you a heart attack?

It's more dangerous if men are wearing women's clothing. Men have been attacked wearing women's clothing and women have been attacked by men wearing women's clothing.

[JoshRaed]

Men have been attacked wearing women's clothing and women have been attacked by men wearing women's clothing.

Wait what do you mean by that second part?

[cherrystark]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[An_Alias]

r something who we perceive to be a man is very terrifying for women, wardrobe not withstanding. Now these inte

Show me documented reports/cases for where and when this has ever actually happened, or has ever been a reoccurring issue/offenders. This crime your referencing doesn't happen and is used by terfs as an excuse to be afraid of trans women. Trans people are far more likely to be victims of violence and assault than cis people.

[JoshRaed]

I don’t mean to be rude but I really don’t want trans rights discourse on my writing advice thread. I agree with you, and would have also said what you said, but I really don’t want this to become a whole thing.

[JoshRaed]

@cherrystark i’m not on your side here.

[JoshRaed]

@joannekwan can you unlist this?

[NickRowler]

• pink is “for girls” due to advertisements. Historically pink was for boys. But around the turn of the century, companies like Sears made it trendy to color code baby clothes. I also think the rise in TV ads towards kids in the 80s might have also played into it.

• the anti-crossdressing is tied to homophobia. There is a line in the Old Testament that is anti-crossdressing and that has been used by religious folks to attack people who crossdress. It’s not really logical because clothes wildly differ by culture and there are traditional men’s fashion that might look like a women’s skirt or dress in another. I think there are people afraid they might be bi-curious, which can cause them to lash out and attack people instead of just coming to terms with their identity.

[Ordinaryaverageguy]

I've been getting questions like "why would this character think like that? Why is this this way?" And there's no real explanation

I feel like you should reply to those questions with your own, "Why do you think they should not think/be that way?" Perhaps the questioner is confused by inconsistencies in the way the character was written (previously mentioned). Or perhaps they are really questioning why YOU want to write the story that way - IOW, they're trying to edit your story for you, unbidden, & should be dismissed.

As the author, you're creating the world & the conventions for your story. You only need to explain it if you think an understanding of the background/backstory is critical to the plot.

[JoshRaed]

(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)

[JoshRaed]

I rewrote the post to explain what I was talking about better. Sorry about the previous version.

[joannekwan]