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Chochmah
Mar '22

I've been writing a story lately (novel, not comic - I can't draw for shit XD) and I've been wondering whether the use of religion and religious symbolism that I have been including is a good or bad idea. On the one hand, it's important to me and to where the story is going, but on the other, I understand that, and why, a lot of people are not big fans of religion in their stories. There's also the part where some of what is being included is vaguely autobiographical, which muddies things further.

For a bit of of background: I am a practicing Jew, and what is typically termed a Ba'al Teshuvah (literally "Master of returning"). Basically this means that I started caring more about proper practice than I used to. I'm not actually super religious in my opinion, certainly not compared to some people I have met over the past few years, but considering my upbringing and my peers, I'm relatively quite caring and quite observant at this time. The details aren't important for this discussion - what is, is that I care a lot and am not just throwing in symbols I don't understand for the sake of it. Heck, my username and symbol on this site are both related to this as well. I think it's safe to say that it's important to me.

It felt very natural, almost automatic, therefore, to make my quarter-dragon warrior lady in my story Jewish. I didn't say so explicitly - it doesn't take place in our world anyway - but she is, plain and simple, and I would argue anyone who knows much about it would be able to figure that out with no difficulty. Next thing I knew it was a pretty important part of what I have written so far and where I want to take the story, with her having tefillin, keeping kosher (with some changes to fit the setting), and current and future conflicts within the story being allegorical for anti-semitism (eg some other characters assuming that as a part-dragon she must be hoarding heaps of gold somewhere, when in reality she comes from a poor farming family). I don't know how far I want to take this allegory, but I am at least in part tempted to really lean into the religious elements. Bear in mind this is all out of a position of respect and appreciation, rather than "cuz it's cool" (though it is cool, in its own way).

On the one hand, this is my own story, written primarily because I wanted to write about a part dragon woman, I was already told that this was a dumb and cringey idea before the religious stuff got involved (long story, I don't wanna talk about it), and there was no small amount of "fuck it" involved in deciding to write it anyway. If my overall approach to the story is "fuck it" then maybe I shouldn't care whether or not the idea is bad, or alienating to people who don't like religion as a story element, because it's my story and I can do what I want (and it is certainly not with an intention to offend anyone). But on the other, I do still care about people enjoying the story, at least a little, and I don't want to end up with an unreadable mess that's just self-serving references or whatever, and I am worried about it being seen as rude or offensive to "force religion" on people reading it (as much as I can easily say "Then don't read it" I still worry). Further I also have concern about offending people who are religious - obviously this has no intention to offend but I can see some people finding it in poor taste.

So... I'm not really sure what to think. Do I have to dial it back with this in mind? Is it okay to, for lack of a better term, write what I care about and what I feel like? Or is it more important to recognize the potential audience-alienating premise and be cognizant of what is acceptable to a typical audience?

Sorry if this comes across as borderline unreadable nonsense. I'm spiritually exhausted as I type this and can hardly keep the thoughts straight in my own head.

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    Mar '22

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    Apr '22
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DokiDokiTsuna
Mar '22

YES!

Just what from little you wrote about your story, I think it's a really creative way to incorporate your religion and your beliefs-- using dragon tropes to represent anti-Semitic stereotypes; that's really cool~. If nothing else, you have a really neat idea on your hands, and I say shame on anyone who can't appreciate it for what it is and how much it means to you.

Of course, I can understand where your concern comes from...in a lot of fiction, especially YA fiction, whether it's novels or movies or video games, religion = evil. Religious people usually just want to control others and/or punish them; even villains who have no religious ideas can be given religious motifs/designs to hammer home the point that they are bad people...because that's how ingrained the idea is. =/

And I think it's really...sad. I'm not gonna deny all the harm religious people have done throughout the ages, but that doesn't mean the very idea of religion is inherently harmful. And it doesn't mean people with a close connection to their own religions have 'ulterior motives' when they decide to write about them positively in fiction.

I've been working on a story kind of like yours for a while now: a story where my own relationship with the religion I was raised with is abstracted into a fantasy story. ^^ And although the parallels aren't as deep as yours, I still get those concerns about 'alienating' people when I write a really positive, kind moment for the characters where they incorporate their beliefs into their dialogue...as many religious people actually do.

It feels 'wrong'; like it's not allowed...like I'm working for Disney or something and I need to tone things down and keep them secular to please the corporate sponsors. ^^; Even though in my heart, I know there's nothing actually immoral about it, I've consumed enough fiction to know that it's the opposite of what's usually done, and it still feels icky.

But I think there's nothing you can do except ignore those feelings...and the people who will eventually come to you and echo them. I mean, if it's ever to become normal to write non-evil things about religion in fiction, someone has to be brave enough to actually do it.

AnonymousHouseCat
Mar '22

Hi! Just to quickly contribute my own two cents: I think it is perfectly fine to include religion, especially drawing from your own experiences, in your story. I see how it could be problematic if the goal of including religion is to indoctrinate readers or make a blanket statement like "all religion is bad" or "everything about this particular religion is bad" but that doesn't seem to be what you are doing. Just having a character exist with a belief system/making that a part of who they are as a complex individual should be fine. Also, people tend to think that religion is only a private matter, but unique religious landscapes permeate most aspects of society (values, politics, culture, etc.)

powerplantanimations
Mar '22
DokiDokiTsuna

Yeah I was doing something similar where I'm trying to write my experiences with Catholicism in this one story. At first I hated it, but then I just saw the struggles my relatives went through and realized there's something more to it after all. Since then, I've started to get a good handle of the religion and started to follow it again.

For me, I'm just sharing why I think it should still be around without being preachy. A lot of it is just tackling misconceptions and having villains be representations of what cynics think God is. For example; I remember people calling God a "sadist or a masochist"; so I came up with this alien who's endured human suffering. He's able to link brains together telepathically. He wants the entire universe to feel human suffering so they can understand the "truth" (aliens are far more advanced and look down on humanity), but really he's just doing it so he can get off from the pain and receive "the ultimate high". The only way he can control people is through a drug. There's a line where the alien doesn't understand why a Catholic is being fussy about it and compares himself to God. And the character just makes a statement about how God sacrificed himself to take his own medicine, not to get off. Scenarios like that lmao.

I will say what frustrates me on the site are teenagers who know no better and making love stories borrowing from biblical characters. There's a bit of hypocrisy from non-believers that Catholics should get their record straight regarding their faith, yet the authors end up confusing the public by bastardizing figures with these types of stories. I remember Webtoons having this one official story about St. Michael having a gay relationship and the comment section was just full of people being like "Lol people are going to get mad". I wasn't infuriated I was more like "Are we really at that level?".

skyfarron
Mar '22

Religion is a part of worldbuilding and character. What does the faith preach and do the characters follow it? Which ones? How closely? Those are important traits. Not a single story is without some kind of belief system, a lot nowadays just make one up to avoid controversy. It's probably easier to talk about your own, though.

rajillustration
Mar '22

I mean not gonna lie, most people reading on this platform know so little about religion they may not realize that she's even jewish. I personally would think that's neat to have a character who comes from a recognizable culture and a religion and it's a positive thing in their life. (wow, what a normal ass concept I rarely see in webcomics on here. there is so much negativity on here, that it makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable because it absolutely skirts the line of religious persecution sometimes. It's...some people write some wild stuff I'll just say that.) As for readers out there, I don't know the full demographic of Tapas, and I haven't posted anything remotely religious myself to this platform. I know other platforms for web books have more support in that area, so it might be good to research into that, if you're writing a book.

I doubt you'd see anyone attacking you for it though. More likely it would just be that you get very little views--which is kind of par for the course on writing anything on Tapas that isn't a trending topic. Which is another story youknow that isn't really about religion or not religion.

NickRowler
Mar '22

I think you should talk about your religion if you want. I have read comics like The Rabbi's Cat and Persepolis which are written about religions which are not my own but they are good comics and worth reading.

I think when things become "forced" is when stories are written like those God's Not Dead films where they are more focused on "one upping" everyone and acting like all non-believers are evil and stupid. That is when it just becomes unpleasant to watch/read.

Personally tho, I want more stories that bastardize the Bible. Christians already bastardized their own religion, so why can't I, as Jesus once said, "Go the extra mile."

skyfarron
Mar '22

Coming Soon: Christ Marathon

Jesus just wants to run the State Triathlon, but the bullies won't let him. God sends him a kegger so he can make friends at a party. Jesus runs the Triathlon and comes in first place, but the bullies cheat and he's disqualified. He gets a rematch scheduled, but Judas puts sleeping pills in Jesus' water bottle. He's locked in the closet for three days. When he comes back, he runs to the rematch and THEN wins the Triathlon, again, even going so far as to run through a flood that consumes the road. From then on, Jesus is "the man who ran on water".

You're the BEST... AROUUUND

Chochmah
Mar '22
NickRowler

Well, I'm sorry(?) to say I won't be bastardizing The Bible, so you may have to keep looking for that one.

NickRowler
Mar '22

Sorry that wasn't meant to be directly targeted at your story idea. I do have an idea for a story based on the Garden of Eden but I know that some super religious people may say I shouldn't write about that stuff because it's not my religion. And I do not really agree with that.

Chochmah
Mar '22

I would say you can write it - lots of people use Edenic imagery in their work without being devout.

Chochmah
Mar '22
1
DokiDokiTsuna

Yeah... I've become less, for lack of a better word, "accepting" lately of painting religious people as the bad guys, or stories that stir up family drama by just saying the families are strictly religious and the child isn't. To be sure, situations like that do exist in real life, but I also see people at my college wearing cross necklaces and with bible verses on their laptops - surely we can recognize that plenty of people were raised religious, remain religious, and aren't idiots? As far as bad things being done in the name of religion, that's certainly very true, but bad things have been done in the name of all sorts of things. I don't want to have to be immediately apologetic for going to services - but sometimes I feel like I don't have a choice.

I dunno. I'm endlessly conflicted to be honest. No amount of responses, no matter how well thought out they are, were going to really assuage me. The amount of things I'm worried about regarding this story, and other things related to it, are countless. I'm not even sure why I made this thread - these are the sorts of things I'm supposed to keep to myself instead of bugging people with. Thank you for your thoughtful response, regardless.

@rajillustration It's actually not on Tapas, but a different site. I didn't bring that up because I felt it wasn't relevant. I actually haven't been here long enough to know what sort of anti-religious stuff you're talking about, and frankly I'm scared to ask for examples.

N1ghtm4r3
Mar '22

write what you want , in mine i have a religious group that are evil but its not religion that is evil , its more the zealots who corrupt their belifes

TheDoublekey
Mar '22

Religion can be an interesting thing to include in your work, as long as you know what you're doing. It gives the story a whole new depth and makes it feel more "alive" and closer to reality. If you're not going against any particular religion, nor being insulting towards anybody, then I don't see the reason not to include it.

powerplantanimations
Mar '22
1
NickRowler

@NickRowler I'm sorry, but I remember your comments regarding stuff being edgy on another forum post and I can't help that the last comment just contradicts statements you've made in the past? I wouldn't be making this comment, but I feel like it goes against some of the stuff you replied to me in the past lmao. Specifically the Dark Humor post you've made where being offensive or shocking for the sake of being offensive and shocking is wrong and just looking for trouble by provoking is also wrong.

I mean, outwardly saying "I want more stories that bastardize the Bible" seems antagonistic. Sure I guess I can get the statement where Christians bastardize their own religion is true, but then again they aren't being real Christians are they? To people it's a lifestyle. You speak as if all Christians do this when the whole concept is fighting against temptation that leads us to bastardization. I dunno just something I wanted to bring up. People can do what they want writing wise, but your comment just confused me lmao.

@Chochmah Also I feel like we're entering an age where people are starting to understand each other more.

NickRowler
Mar '22
1

I don’t find making fun of the Bible as edgy or dark humor. I don’t believe in it so I am not scared of hell, demons, and all that junk. I have read up about how the English version of the Bible is not a very good translation and it has lead to a lot of false interpretation of the text. Plus if you read the history of the creation of the book, Revelations should have never been included in the final version. Similar to Paradise Lost, it was a fanfic that got forced into the canon. Yet Enoch was removed because Christian didn’t want to talk about the angel hybids, despite it originally being part of the canon…

powerplantanimations
Mar '22
2

For me I poke fun at everyone without looking down or taking low blows (including my own religion), but to just get on people's cases on the forums for accidentally coming off as potentially offensive only to be like "nah, that's fine" with certain lifestyles you don't care about and just saying you would advocate for more people to have their lifestyle trashed is annoying.

I'm not trying to have a biblical debate, I'm just saying treat people how you want to be treated. Especially since the people you're promoting to do so are usually getting a kick out of infuriating people, thinking it's dark and edgy; which according to this thread, most people seem to agree it's annoying.

And yeah, I get there's different interpretations and all that but that's why it's always important for Christians to find similarities and connect with them. That way everyone can get along.

toonben
Mar '22

I can't tell but I'll let the answers explain it for me. Personally, I'avoid exploring religion alongside poltics in my works because I'm more creating escapist adventures.

hakei
Mar '22

As someone whose own story is a negative take on my own religion, I say go for it!

Religions and religious influences being present in your story isn't inherently bad, like J.R.R. Tolkien's LOTR universe and C.S. Lewis' Jesus Lion. Heck, Dreamwork's Prince of Egypt is one of my utmost favorite animation movies and that is straight-up a religion story complete with God, angels, divine messages, etc.