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Oct 2019

I haven’t read what you said since you posted way after I did.

Referring to you quoting my post, I outlined my approach to writing as requested by the OP. This is the method I have used for the last 25 years. I structure the entire story with dummy character fillers, and then flesh out the characters within the context of the narrative as the story moves along.

@Klaustasya

One of the most helpful things I ever did as a writer was make a list of all the things my favorite stories, shows and movies have in common. I bet several of your top 10 movies, for example, have similar themes, characters, plot devices, etc. Do they all involve a countdown? Is the heroine always a redhead? Is there some sort of treasure hunt going on? Are there fantasy elements in all of them? Do they all take place in 1920s train depots? Etc.

I'd try starting there.

Yes, this sounds like a good starting point! I'll try it out, thanks!

I feel I get inspired exactly the same way you do. For about four years straight, when I was with my ex, I had the same exact problem. I love all my stories and characters, and I thought about them constantly, but no story ever seemed to breach past chapter 1.

Then, some drastic life changes landed me single and homeless. Put me in shock to some degree. Then, the next thing I knew, I started drawing and writing my ass off. I rewrote my first book, Wicked, then got 4 out of 5 books written in my Doomsday series. I also have volumes 1 and 2 of my American manga done, currently working on volume 3.

It's not really advice, I guess, because I can't explain why terrible luck, betrayal, and homelessness inspired this sudden streak of productivity. But if I had to try explaining it...

I would say this.

You don't have forever. Your comforts are taken for granted and often temporary, and so is your life. You don't have forever to procrastinate and entertain the depression and discouragement--if you don't get it done now, while you CAN get it done, then it will never become a reality, and it's a regret you will die with.

I know that sounds drastic, but that's the way I think. Both of my parents are excellent writers and artists, but they spent their lives trying to keep a broken marriage going before divorcing and sinking all their time into work and court drama. Life often gets in the way of living. It's a damn shame to see people with such talent never make use of it.

And I'll be damned if that's gonna happen to me.

Stop posting on forums and get started! I swear, getting over this hump is the hardest part, because once you're past this, you can NEVER stop!

You should probably get some kind of best-advice-ever reward for saying that.:writing_hand:

For me it took years to get anywhere near a story that feels completed, it went trough countless remakes and changes before it was anywhere near a clear vision. Even now it's still changing,to reach the vision that i have for it.
Only advice i can suggest is to organise your ideas,and and write a list of what aspect of story telling you enjoy the most what stories you like the most.
Explore the world where those stories take places,write shorts with weird concepts till you have a list of things you would be ecstatic to work on every single day.
And that's how you get a story, if everything else fails there is plan b

make a simple setting,and make short comics. and expand on it a little each time
hopefully it helps

Well now that I'm re-reading it... I didn't say it the way I meant it (cause I'm not very good at english). I knew you didn't read my comment before saying that.

I go with the tought of "characters make the story happen", so my proccess is more character based.

The trick that works for me to give a plot to a character is to think what situations/conflicts are interesting to explore said character.

These conflict varies a lot, it could be them having a crush, a goal, a mission, a dream or just them dealing with daily life. Everyone wants something, even wanting to do nothing counts.

There is a chance that your story has more than one character, see how they relate to the MC/MC`s and if they affect the MC possitively or negatively on their goal. Sometimes the main obstacle for them to reach their goal may be themselves!

Sometimes, not all your OC`s will fit on the same story, due to story tone or other reasons. The ones that dont fit, save them for another story.

hope this helps you to give your OC`s a story to be. :slight_smile:

For me, my comic contains a lot of thoughts, feelings, beliefs I have that I can't express well in words so I try and show them instead. It's rather personal for me. If there is something you care deeply about, it might help to include it in the story somehow.

Thanks xD I was just speaking from the heart. Kinda dark, but... it's true. I don't wanna be on my deathbed thinking of all the stuff I wanted to make and never got around to it.

How do you come up with stories and comics that you're too excited about to put down? - Very simple. Discipline. No one will absolutely love their story at all points. This is the problem behind waiting for "inspiration", which is in effect what you're doing. That, and it seems you've having some trouble with your own self esteem in coming up with a story. What you need to ask yourself, and I mean truly sit and ponder on this for a while, "why do I get tired of my own stories?"
As for them lacking a "real story"? Says who? No story is ever, EVER thought up wholesale and complete upon its first conception. No story survives the creative process unchanged from the initial thoughts that get it down on paper. Perhaps it's a problem if perception and expectation that you're having?

As for coming up with characters and OCs first. This is not a sin as some would claim. Contrary to @CarltonIsaac, I'd say you can easily come up with characters for a character-driven plotline first. You can develop a good story if you have a good character and know them intimately. Do you do character bios? Do you write full backgrounds? Personalities? Likes, dislikes? Secret thoughts, idiosyncrasies, tics and habits? Have you determined their upbringing, and fleshed out the milestones in their development? Events that have shaped them into who they are? Are they right handed or left? Are there any minor or major injuries or defects in their physical prowess that would influence the way they interact with the world?
When you know who you characters are, you can determine that motivations drive them, and perhaps come up with something to base a story around. Do you have a character that's a pathological liar? Well you've got a great basis for a story that explores and deals with the actions and consequences of being a pathological liar. Have someone with an ego, and someone naive and trusting? Great chance for some stories there if you pair them up.
It's not a matter of "why I like my characters so much." I have characters that I absolutely despise sometimes writing about them, not because they affect me personally, but because it's not something I'm resonating with at the time. I push through it anyway, even if I leave a note to myself that this part was half-assed and needs further development.

Writing and story telling are not Just Talent. They are skills, and like all skills they can be trained. Someone with a natural affinity for something will always be surpassed by someone who puts their 100% into developing and training their skills if they don't train it. They may have an initial "boost", but in the end "natural talent" counts for extremely little.

To give you a little inisght, I'm a pantser. I've always been a pantser. I was surrounded by creativity in my youth, my family got me into D&D when I was 5, though even before then they encouraged whatever creativity I came up with by, as a toddler, telling THEM bed time stories (because the "normal ones are kinda boring now I heard them too much"). I started "writing" in second grade, first for a Halloween project (write a scary story). I'd always loved to read, and would read almost anything from any genre. I never planned anything out, came up with a concept, and went from there. Still do that to this day, and so far it's working out great. No, I never publish the first draft, that's not what Pantsing is as some salty plotters would tell you (insert writing group war flashbacks here). I also have an intense burning passion for science, and the only reason I'm a writer and not an engineer, chemist, or physicist, is because I was led to believe that ALL SCIENCE IS MATH and that, because I don't particularly process math the way school wanted me to in the 90s, I would never be able to get a career in my original dream jobs.
Going back over my ancient works from before I was, say, 10? I can remember each and every influence in that piece. I was fascinating reading over some of my old stuff and tracking my progress over the years. As I was exposed to more stories, more variations, more content, the better my stories got. The more I wrote, the more I experimented and exercised the writing muscle, the better crafted my sentences were. The better I was able to utilize the vocabulary and concepts I had internalized. Every new scientific discovery, every philosophical question, every bit of science, fringe science, and pseudo science I learned about gave me new elements to weave into my stories.

To which I ask you. Do you read? Do you study interests outside of writing? Do you have other hobbies? What are the influences on your work? Read and read often. Read wide, and read deep. Find the passions you're interested in. Study, practice, read, train. Everything you do and experience in life will only serve to increase your storytelling capabilities. And remember, the first draft is never the publication draft. Revisions and editing exist for us to polish the rough sculpture we initially create. You think Michelangelo created such beautiful sculptures just by smacking the marble a few times? Hell no, even sculptors will ofttimes do a few practice sculptures before working on the main piece. Consider the drafts your practice blocks.

I have two exercises I'd suggest.
1) Character Q&A. Come up with some questions to ask your characters. Get some questions from friends. Sit down and "conduct an interview". If you haven't come up with some details yet, just letting whatever comes out of your character's mouth can fill them in. Don't think, don't consider. Don't go "Oh, but he wouldn't do/say that!". Just let them talk.
2) World build. While you can get a fairly good character-driven story out of just the base characters alone, it's much easier to have an environment that you can draw elements from. So? World build. There are dozens of, hundreds even of videos and blogs dedicated to world building. I find the ones for tabletop RPGs like D&D the best, as most of the ones i've come across for writers tend to be a lot less granular.

Beyond that, something I've come to understand in engaging with writers in groups and forums over the years, is that there are really 3 ways of crafting a story.
1) Plotter - The one who will spend most of their time making a book in actual research, plotting out the story each and every step of the way. Can get even as extreme as determining what the characters will do and think during the outlining process. Characters are slaves to the plot, and in my experience much of the time the character can feel a little too cookie cutter, a little too structured and robotic. These tend to be the ones that get the books done the most often, as the story is often written out before they even start writing it, it's just a matter of applying the dressing for presentation.
2) Pantser - The one who will just write things as they come to mind. Usually doesn't have a lot of structure, and most of the time making a book will be spent editing out unecessary parts, filling holes, hunting down lost plot threats, tying off loose ends, and in general a lot of re-writes. Mostly for continuity. Characters are inserted, created, and developed as you go. The downside to these types I often notice tend to be, as I said, lost plot threads, gaping plot holes, continuity errors, and the like.

Those are the two most commonly accepted methodologies. I'm sure I'm not the one who started this third, but I never see it spoken about beforehand. I started doing it when I started writing stories in my homebrew D&D worlds that I would always come up with for campaigns, but those campaigns would always die because my groups tended to... Not last long.

3) World Builder - The one who designs a world, then decides what stories can play out within it. Usually the style that has multiple stories in the same setting, often disconnected from each other. Can be as simple as coming up with the world, the rules of the world, a few nations and cultures and a bit of geography and go from there. Can get as granular as filling out every town full of shops and "npcs" your story may never use.. The way I do it, admittedly all I can tell you as I'm the only one I know to do this, I like to come up with the history and rules of the world, for at least a few thousand years, in broad strokes. Fill out a few nations and cultures, populate with species, etc. Then I start looking around for interesting story potential. Political intrigue, wars, otherworldly invasions (I write fantasy and scifi mostly), etc etc. Sometimes, if the world is created very granular, I'll just come up with some characters that seem interesting and drop them in to see what happens. This method's worked out well for me so far, and for reference I do mostly pantsing, with a little plotting.

That's a lot, sorry. Hope this can give you some insight that you can utilize.

This is probably the best answer i got so far, i literally just came put from my session with my therapist and talked about my current problem, i really feel like screenshoting what you just said, your words are truly inspiring! (Sorry i wish i could define my answer more but english is not my first language.) but to put it straight i couldn't stop nodding at almost everything you said somehow it really reasonated within me! Especially the initial Discipline thing which is exactly what i ended up talking about it with my psychologist today.
Thank you! I'll hold dear your comment!!

Well, I'm glad I was able to help. I wish you luck and fortune in all your future creative projects!

In my method of operation, that is a waste of time. I sell stories, not characters, and that works for me and my bank balance.
To emphasize, I stated my modus operandi, and not a plan that others should follow.
If what ever you do @ViktorGrim works for you, that's great and I have no reason to correct you, just as much as you have no reason to "fix' the way I work. Cheers!

I wonder if it would be helpful to have 2 stories. One story which is "practical", while at the same time have one thats all passion and freeflowing. Kind of a way to keep from being emotionally compromised.

I had a vague idea of the story, way before I knew my characters. I ended up basing most of my characters on people I actually know, and care about. That gave them their 'base' personality and from there they took over. I don't try to force a story, it's weird to say but they end up telling me their story. There is one scene I am currently working on, where I originally wanted to characters response to be weak, but he forced the issue instead. He was angry, and annoyed and I drew it that way even though I planned for him to shrink and be quiet.
I think when you plan to much, it ends up feeling forced, and you get frustrated because then it becomes a lot of work and overthinking. Then you start nitpicking every little thing. If you just have a simple idea, there is a lot of room to rethink, rearrange, and be flexible. I want to be surprised when I write, just like the audience likes to be surprised.

I guess simply put, I get excited about my stories, because I feel like I'm being told the story along the way. So I get excited to see what my characters will do next!

Oh yes!
Like I initially had two characters only have fairly shallow interactions but as I was writing them I was like, "nah, they need more." And so now they received an entire chapter to themselves. The addition really adds to each of their depth and also deepened my enjoyment of the characters themselves!

For me, it depends on the story;

Sometimes I start out with a character concept, then build out a plot around those character concepts.

Sometimes, I have an plot for a story, build it out in my head, then come up with characters for the story.

I will say that for a story to work and for me to keep pushing and at it, I need both. I need characters I care about and like, and I need a plot to follow through on for the story. If I don't characters I care about, then I can't write them well and thus can't be invested in the story. If I don't have a plot, then yeah I love the characters, but I can't actually see any story I make with them have a middle and end. So I need both to keep my interest and succeed.

An idea I have brewing in my head stems from a similar moment I had: "Man I am sick and tired of all these immortal/ANCIENT vampires falling in love with some innocent young waif. First of, I'mma change the genders AND I'm gonna give a reason WHY the vampire woman loves the human. So a pure romance with some horror elements. A Vampire Romance. Considering that there are a lot of...painful cliches with Vampire Romances, I definitely wanted to write one myself that addresses some of those cliches.

I just need to outline it and get the plot going beyond more than just this concept :smiley:

You misunderstand @CarltonIsaac . I wasn't "fixing" or "correcting" your method. For the most part, I was referencing your post by @ rather than making my post longer via direct quote. Though, I must ask. Are you aware that your post comes off as authoritarian? The lack of an "in my method" clause, combined with the way you emphasize certain words, made it come across that way to me.

I've seen newer writers get incredibly discouraged with how more experienced writers set an authoritarian tone. Watched as they struggle for an unnecessarily long amount of time with a method they were told by an author they respected, rather than explore other methods suggested that would suit them better. Considering you sell on amazon, that simply is one more reason for a newer writer to think that way. OP was asking because they were asking for help. I'm sure you understood that. I wasn't sure, however, if they were going to hang on your words or not. In my opinion, it's irresponsible to budding creators to only present one method of creating. Wanted to give OP a further expanded range of options, as it were.

So, there ya go. The reasoning behind my @ It wasn't to fix or correct your method, it was because I knew my post was going to get long and quoting your post would've added more. The rest of the post isn't even directed at nor intended for you. Whether you accept that reasoning or not, up to you my dude.

May your sales skyrocket and over half your library appear on Amazon's Top Seller list. Cheers!

I love creating stories, well writing them anyway. The thing I take personally is criticism. I'm more sensitive than most people, I guess. I hated people criticizing my writing because I thought that it was a personal attack and stopped writing. Each and every time, I get some rude comment or something, I just end up shutting down, getting like very sad, I guess.I know that I shouldn't but I really can't help it.

The saying that criticism helps you grow is completely untrue, for me it only discourages me.