I need help with a word translation

[ccmatta]

Hi. So. I dont know how to start haha uh... So, the thing is, there was a bit of a comotion on the beggining of my comic because of a word I used and to this day I never corrected it because in a way I believe in what I did? I dont know? But I'm not an english speaker so I need help. Mainly from gay people. I'm from Brazil, my 1st language is portuguese. And in our culture we have this slang for gay people that started as an insult, "viado", it may come from "transviado", in english it means something like misguided/perverted or, as said in wikipedia, from "desviado", that means "deviant".

As I said, it started as an insult, but today it's used by the comunity normally, they took this bad word and made it theirs. So today you see lgbtqa+ people saying "c'mon viado" easily. So here is my dillema, and it's controversial: I've watched this particular gay show where they use this word a lot between them: fag. And to me it was normal to use it between gay people, as it is to use "viado" in Brazil. I mean, yeah, the show is old, so things may have changed in american/english speaker culture, something I dont have a way to know withou asking someone. That's why I'm here, but I need answers from gay people, which words/slangs do you use to call your gay friend?

For context: In the scene you have two best friends joking around, one of them is bisexual and the other is straight. The bi guy is hugging his friend and calling him "his blondie" and stuff like that, and the straight friend say "You know people already call you a fag, dont you?", as in portuguese I used the word "viado". And, well, everyone comented how wrong it was and everything and I adressed it as I did here and my thought process, but I never really changed it, because I never knew what to change it for. I've been wanting to ask this in here for months already and never got the courage to.

Sorry for talking too much, I just wanted to explain everything to not be "omg that homofobic" because that was not the context of the scene, but if there's a more fitting word that people use nowadays, please please let me know. I'm almost a granny in internet years, so I dont know what the new generations accept better.

[BlairFujin]

I think a big part of the problem is it being the straight character using the word, if he was gay, it'd be more of a joking use of a reclaimed slur (though I'm not sure if this one falls into this category in English, not a native speaker as well, but operating almost exclusively in English-speaking online spaces) but with him being straight it comes off as him just insulting his friend with a slur. You know, the same deal with black folks calling each other the n-word vs one of their white friends calling them that...
And as I'm thinking about it... I don't think if there would be a word that you could use here that wouldn't raise an eyebrow that would serve the same function...

[ccmatta]

@Animefanka I see... That's the problem, the portuguese word, viado, even straight people use without problems, it's a slang everyone uses here. Like, I tell people I draw viados hahaha (i'm not straight tho but it doesnt matter) like, it doesnt have this conotation and heavyness that the n-word has, so I get a lot lost in the translation you know?

I thought about using "queer" but I dont know if it's offensive either... I'm not used to what is offensive because of that damn show I watched that everyone uses "fag" "queer" "fairy" every 10 words, I watched it when I was 13, I didnt even know english at that time, so I learned it like that lol. And as the boys are joking, I felt that saying "oh they think you're gay already" would be too.... serious, y'know? He's not gay, the straight friend knows he's not gay, so he was making a joke, I wanted something more... i dont know, casual?

[BlairFujin]

I think queer would be good here... when it comes to not making readers feel off. It is more of an umbrella term and something that sounds more natural in a conversation that "you're part of the lgbt+ community" 'xD Though I'm not 100% sure if it would convey the same vibe you were going for...

This really reminds me why I prefer writing in English from start over writing in Polish first and then translating it to English. Some stuff, phrases, situations just don't translate well...

Some do say it is a slur (mostly some kids on tumblr/twitter that are angry about everything) and you shouldn't use it but from what I understand it does come from places wanting to limit who the term lgbt applies to (basically in-group fighting stirred up by assholes).

[ccmatta]

Yeah, I feel like "queer" wouldnt feel like two stupid teenagers jokingly insulting one another hahahaha that's why I went to "fag" but the readers didnt accept that well, and I undestood after everyone explaining it to me and all.

I could write in english but I want to publish it in portuguese too (i used to, but I stoped and never got back to it), and my english is faaaaar from perfect so my work flow wouldnt be the best so I still find it easier to write in portuguese, even if a lot of jokes and cute pet names cant be translated xD well, gringo's bad luck I guess.

That's my fear and what makes me lose my mind, i dont know how old are my readers, what if there are twitter kids reading my comic? So queer is all good to go, just not for them, okay ookay, noted hahahaha I did change it to queer when I was revisiting my pages, but i didnt change on tapas yet. I just wanted to make sure.

[moontokkym]

I'd echo what @animefanka said. I'm a native-english speaking lesbian and if my straight friends or even bi or pan friends ever called me that it would be really weird, even the ones that are very openly allies. It's because it's the shortening of the f-slur and is kind of "outdated" and never really got reclaimed fully and is still often used as an insult. Older LGBTQ+ people tend to dislike the word "queer" because of it having been used as a slur for so long, but now it's being reclaimed and is generally accepted now as a neutral term to talk about the whole LGBTQ+ community without having to acronym it because "queer" is almost never used in it's original meaning anymore (it used to mean "strange, odd, different" before it was applied to the queer community).

I'd argue hearing "queer" from a teen would be more natural and friendly than "fag" in english if you're worrying about making them sound young.

I'd also say that this sort of thing is going to happen with translation because of cultural history and usage of words that are difficult to catch as a non native speaker. I speak french but I still have a native french friend do my translation for me because of stuff like this, so if you can I'd recommend looking for a sensitivity reader or even a native beta reader for every language you're translating to because it sucks to hurt people accidentally and get hate for something you genuinely didn't know was a problem.

[ccmatta]

I get the feeling it's "outdated" since the show I got this from is quite old, so I undestand that, but as they use "queer" a lot too, I got a bit insecure of using that too, y'know? But I'm happy to hear that it has a more positive meaning in the comunity :3 So I may stay with "queer" for now, as it seems to be a better translation. Thank you a lot for your imput <3

Yeaaaah, I mean, I wish I had the meanings to get a beta reader, because well, I have this comic for 3 years now and my english was even more broken when I started hahaha and I guess there wont be many people wanting to read almost 900 pages of a comic to see if the dialog is ok for free D: I needed someone from a specific health area too to help me with sensitive reading because I write about mental health from the perspective of a patient (in this case, me, hello hi), but all this would take money and I dont work because of, well, my mental health, so yeah, I just have to make my best to not make mistakes on my own. And take courage to ask questions like this when in doubt, I guess.

[NickRowler]

I've watched this particular gay show where they use this word a lot between them: fag. And to me it was normal to use it between gay people,

I have heard this happen when straight people watch stuff like RuPaul's Drag Race and hear the queens throwing shade and don't realize that it is just gay men talking to gay men. If someone was straight and saying the same thing, it would be really insulting.

The bi guy is hugging his friend and calling him "his blondie" and stuff like that, and the straight friend say "You know people already call you a fag, dont you?",

This line sounds like the other people are bullying the bisexual guy. And having the straight friend bring it up sounds a bit rude.

I need answers from gay people, which words/slangs do you use to call your gay friend?

I think it depend on what kind of person they are. Not all gay people are the same. Like some fem gay men might call their male gay friends "girls" or "girlies". But out of context that could sound weird. And a more macho man or average joe guy probably won't use it.

[ccmatta]

Oh, right, it did happen with Drag Race, I kinda remember something like that. I don't know, I feel like in my culture, if an ally uses thoses jokes and slangs (not those from RuPaul's, but those we have in portuguese that are similar) we kinda accept and embrace it, so there's this cultural difference that's pretty hard to translate. Again, I say "we" because I'm ace, so I'm part of lgbtqa+, but I'm far from having the same experiences as a gay guy, but I'm in the comunity and all and I see how we work in my country.

This line sounds like the other people are bullying the bisexual guy. And having the straight friend bring it up sounds a bit rude.

Well... yeah, I see how it can sound like that, mainly because far in the story you know he has a history of bullying. But is there a frindly way they can just joke around and have this "insulting your best bro for fun" type of vibe? Like teasing each other in a way.

And a more macho man or average joe guy probably won't use it.

And how would a more... manly gay be called? xD As I said in another reply, I may stay with "queer" for the casual aspect of the conversation, what do you think?

And thank you for your reply, really. Sometimes it's hard to translate diferent cultures and some things dont work out, and I just want my readers to feel as confortable as possible.

[NickRowler]

But is there a frindly way they can just joke around and have this "insulting your best bro for fun" type of vibe? Like teasing each other in a way.

I don't know the context of your series, so I am going to give several examples.

"You know people are already calling you gay, you know?"

This might be closest to what someone would say. Even if the person is bisexual, people will call them gay if they are dating or showing interest in another man. Some bi people do call themselves gay in some situations but others don't like using the term for themselves at all. It could come off a rude without being too offensive.

"You know people are already calling you a homo, you know?"
"You know people are already calling you a queer, you know?"

This would be considered rude. If you want to make it sound like people are insulting the bi guy without using the f-slur, these might be a better route. Tho some readers might still find it offensive.

"You know people are already saying you like men, you know?"

Probably the most PC way of saying it.

[ccmatta]

Well, my comic is rated M, and they are two dumb best friends joking with each other, so I'm not exactly in the PC route I guess hahaha that's why I'm so... the word is not "against", but I dont want to be too polite, otherwise it would feel... unatural in their relationship as it is.

All in all, calling him "gay" seems to be the better choice, huh? That's a shame in english there's no word like "viado" or many more we use that, context given, are just... words. Obviously if you see an homofobe calling you "viado" you will know his intentions, but yeah, culture divengencies I guess. Too hard to translate hahaha

[NickRowler]

I feel like if your series is M, someone might be more sexual about it. I don't really feel like writing that stuff out in a public forum, sorry.

[ccmatta]

Oh. Oh.... I never thought about that. But that would be rude, in my culture at least. Not offensive, tho, I could see two teenagers talking like that, but wow, rude hahahaha Not exactly who my character is. Not the route my scene was going lol it was just tiny joke and now we are talking about sexual preferences wow HAHAHAHAHA I undestand tho. Thank you for your help, it gave me food for thought. I'll wait to see if anyone else have any opinions, as I was set on "queer" and now you made me feel like "gay" would be better, even if it sounds too serious for what the scene is originally.

[TheLemmaLlama]

I think 'gay' is a pretty casual and not very serious word :]