INK Concerns (with MATH!)

[vothnthorvaldson]

That would make sense.
Now, what looks ethically wrong to me is that the way it is advertised make it sound like the base value is the small amounts, and that if you buy big amounts you get a rebate. When actually, buying big amounts would give you the base price, and small amounts would give you a penalty. Now that's such a common strategy that I'm not sure people see that as unethical anymore, but I do. It's misleading on purpose, at minima.

[jensrichard77]

Thank you @tired_programmer for taking the time.
So now we just moved the problem from mystery hidden scam fee to falls advertisement.

But then what?
Are we all good with that?

Inksgiving coming and the lates we heard from Tapas is an email from @michaelson asking us all to spread the words on social media.

But what words shall we spread?

[colinmooredraws]

That’s been a theory at the crack of my mind because the $50 and special offer levels shook out to have no loss. But it’s shady as hell. Mostly for the reasons that @vothnthorvaldson pointed out.

• it’s structured to make the different value look like a bonus when all the base values are $1=800 ink
• Tapas staff refuses to acknowledge this
• At their “most popular” level, they’re still pocketing 13% up front.
• Michaelson said that each ink has no set value and is “meta tagged” with details about where it came from and could therefore change in value.

If 100 people bought Ink at the $10 level, Tapas gets $130 up front. Plus another $110 in its “share.”

I’m not disagreeing with you, as this is the most likely answer. It’s just super unethical and under handed. Their pricing structure needs to be more transparent.

[skicoak]

But what words shall we spread?

I get why people with especially vested interests will defend the practice as just "business" but there's something kind of icky feeling about being pressured to engage and promote an event that's so lopsidedly beneficial to the people selling the ink.

It's framed as a fund raising event for creators ... But the Lion's share of those funds are going elsewhere.

I personally don't like those optics.

[joannekwan]

I still think Michael just needs more time. It's possible that a glitch has been uncovered and he (or another Tapas staff member) has to go through all the proper avenues himself to look into this, contacting the app stores, etc. Or even just getting the nitty gritty details from the app store if it's not a glitch.

I've never experienced Michael leaving the community high and dry on a topic, even if we had to wait longer for an answer.

Perhaps there are many legal roadblocks even preventing him from saying "I've contacted so and so to investigate this further" and can't post any new updates that are more detailed than the previous "I'll look into it."

And especially since the previous week had fewer business days, he could just be waiting for an answer from another party just as we're waiting for his.

[unknown_user]

@vothnthorvaldson @jensrichard77 @colinmooredraws @skicoak

I don't feel so bad about it. It's very expectable, I counted my own benefit from receiving ink, using this theory, from moment I unlocked ink reward as a creator.

[jensrichard77]

I've never experienced Michael leaving the community high and dry on a topic, even if we had to wait longer for an answer.

But he did see where this will go.
He did see the frustration and anger against the cash flow of the company.
He did answer to the point where Theory ended and facts started. Then silence.
He should know that he needs to keep us calm somehow to not let us escalate right up to inksgiving.

[skicoak]

I don't feel so bad about it. It's very expectable,

As a business practice, it is expected but as @colinmooredraws is saying... It requires transparency. All this hocus-pocus math and potential legal mumbo jumbo preventing transparency is sketchy at best.

The actual INKSGIVING event just feels off to me. If they weren't framing it as "a community driven event where readers and creators are encouraged to Support one another through the gifting of Ink." then maybe it'd feel different to me.

This is like passing the hat to help someone but the person who owns the hat keeps most of the money instead.

[vothnthorvaldson]

Yes, I'm willing to wait to hear some explanation, but I reserve myself the right to have lost much enthusiasm about the coming event.

Problem, is, I have very low expectations in term of getting the truth, because I know from personal experience that admitting an error, even a completely honest one, can be worse for a business that keeping their customers in the dark.
Even in the best case, ethically speaking, where only one employee messed up, and other people at Tapas just did not check (because numbers were, obviously, looking good), so merely negligence... I don't expect them to tell us, and I understand why they would not. The general public is not ready to support a business' decision to be honest about their mistakes. There is this idea that businesses that do that are more sloppy/unprofessional, not more honest.
So.. I think if it's a strategy, they obviously won't tell us, and if it's an error or a decision of a single individual without supervision/control.. they won't tell us either..

I may be wrong but I don't expect more than vague explanations...

[joannekwan]

I still hold onto some hope since Tapas did admit and completely own up to their mistake with the ToS fiasco years back and amended the ToS due to backlash. It's my greatest wish that they are still as generally open as they were then.

[colinmooredraws]

And especially since the previous week had fewer business days, he could just be waiting for an answer from another party just as we're waiting for his.

1. It was a bank holiday. Most people still went to work. Only places like banks, schools, post offices etc were closed.
2. I get the feeling that it could be a full month out and you'd still be saying the same thing.

The actual INKSGIVING event just feels off to me. If they weren't framing it as "a community driven event where readers and creators are encouraged to Support one another through the gifting of Ink." then maybe it'd feel different to me.

This is exactly why this bugs me so much. It's the framing and utter lack of transparency. If they even had a convoluted, legalese document that spelled it all out that would be different. At least it would be documented in some way. But people are buying into this system, that is framed as real currency to give creators real money, with zero documentation outside of a few casual FAQ things.

I may be wrong but I don't expect more than vague explanations...

Yeah, at this point I doubt we'll get anything more than vague things that mean essentially nothing. And at this point, I highly doubt this is the result of a single person or any sort of error. It's looking very much by design.

[joannekwan]

I get the feeling that it could be a full month out and you'd still be saying the same thing.

Maybe for a Chinese company during New Year's. But NO I wouldn't allow it for a US-based company.

[vothnthorvaldson]

I hope too, and if that happens that will be to their credit.
That's not the easy way, but I'm pretty certain that's the good strategy long term.

[skicoak]

I hope too,..

I wouldn't buy hope here, they take massive cut of it in fees and undisclosed math

[vothnthorvaldson]

I'm also sure it's by design. There is clearly a strategy, but I'm just not sure whether the fact to make things THAT obscure is a strategy or just happened because of poor communication.
As it is, I think (not 100% sure) that it would fall under the false advertisement laws in my country of birth (that is not US. I don't know the equivalent US laws), so to me it would be a bit weird for a serious business to put itself willingly in such a situation. But again I don't know if it's illegal under US laws.

[colinmooredraws]

We do have false advertising laws in the US but you can typically only fight it by suing over lost funds. And these are such small amounts that it’s difficult for a single person to make a case for it.

It would take a whole lot of people getting really loud about it for any other route. I just wish the same thing would happen as when they tried to change their TOS. There was so much outrage on twitter that they had to change it. But nothing like that will happen here because too many people are complacent about it and shrug off losing so much in the transactions.

[vothnthorvaldson]

Oh yes I understand that factually they have little chance to be sued even if it's illegal.
I was more meaning about the risk in term of image.

[machimaquiaveli]

Maybe is the tiredness and/or other exterior problems but I feel so frustrated now. I spent lot of time checking different websites before starting publishing my work here and I really though they were the best for me bc this was an author-centered platform, they really looked like they wanted to do things different. Now I don't know what to do with my work and inksgiving or anything.

[colinmooredraws]

bc this was an author-centered platform,

I thought so, too. But this is very much not the case. It's geared toward a very specific demographic, and if you fit into that you're good. And that demographic also happens to be the sort of people who wouldn't notice they were taking large chunks of money as a penalty for not shelling out $50.

There's no "good" options out there. No matter where you go, it will be a struggle to get noticed on a platform. And most sites these days that promise an income are only focused on their top performers and are set up to funnel funds directly into their own pockets.

Now that everything I had scheduled to post has gone up, I'm done with Tapas, myself. They're not going to respond, no matter how many times we ask. I've tried multiple points of contact with no response. And I can only make so much noise on my own.

[jensrichard77]

I really though they were the best for me bc this was an author-centered platform, they really looked like they wanted to do things different. Now I don't know what to do with my work and inksgiving or anything.

I feel you. I feel you.
I love Tapas. The way everything else works and how safe I feel about anything.
Everything, But this.

I even tent to call my-self ”Self-claimed Tapas Exclusive”

I always try to only spread the good vibes and welcome all new members to the community.

My Inksgiving special is an entirely new comic where a kart race is updating with new episodes under inksgiving to tell the readers which driver they support are in the lead.

I do not have the ad ink options as other but I do have saving at 50$ to invest in inksgiving.

And now... I don’t know what to do.
I’m urge to spam my feelings and cancel inksgiving.
But I choose to wait right here not knowing what to do