INK Concerns (with MATH!)

Same feeling. I don't feel very enthusiastic about inksgiving, and it's putting it mildly.

However, as I've already announced I would do it, already sort of promised ink to several people, and as myself and other participants I know already got their ink ready... I feel it would be equally problematic to opt out now. For next event, that's an other story. Let's see what we get in term of explanations, if any.

What I feel particularily bad about is having encouraged people to participate, including recently, after I got all this info. For a long time I tended to forget at times; the thing is, I realized since long that the fees were horribly high, and I was okay with it. What I did not realise, though, is the way they were partially hidden. That I'm not okay with at all. That's a compleyely different story.

As I came to the forum before even posting on the site, I was made aware of the high fees well before giving or recieving ink, and thus, never really looked into the specifics.

(Finally caught up with this topic)

I realized when I first got ink unlocked and received the first donations that the fees were not completely explained, or the explanation was complicated to find and I too lazy/not interested to find it. It didn't bother me too much because I have friends who have published books traditionally and considering they barely get ~10% of the sales, Tapas isn't so bad. I also don't expect a website to be completely open about their procedures; not saying this is the right thing to do, but it's how it tend to be and I doubt that I can change that. Still, a simple explanation about the fees should not be a big deal I would asume, so I'm curious to knows as well.

I still like the idea of having ink and inksgiving, and still plan on participating. I apreciate that Tapas lets peopls who can't buy ink, get some via games, ads, etc, and also the general atmosphere the inksgiving thing creates.

In other words, I don't feel upset about the hidden fees because my expectations were never high to start with I still like you, Tapas <3

I know, you have been caps lock ranting about that for a while. But I'm not Tapas, I'm a user just like you so I don't know.

The lack of transparency sure is my main issue.

After all, I have no idea what is done with the income Tapas get from these fees; it could potentially be used wisely, and thus be entirely justified. (Or not. Like any business).

But lack of transparency has no possible good justification.

Okay... then what now. Scraming about it will not help?
Shall we leave it or fight it?
You talk about a blog? Is that the next step?
Shall we collect the ink we can at this inksgiving and then run for it.
Shall we share the frustration with the officials?

Me?

I will wait for an answer and continue my series.
But I will not pay for ink and I will not be giving much out.
I will entertain the ones that wish to be a happy giver and keep asking until we get an answer.
And incorporate Ko-Fi as an alternative

Not sure if this was already mentioned since I skimmed most of the conversation, but have y'all thought about sending off an email with your questions regarding the hidden deductions, and the info you've gathered?

I know you can contact feedback@tapas.io for questions, and hello@tapas.io regarding the ad revenue program. The higher ups might take this issue more seriously if their staff is contacted directly. I also know when shit was going down on other sites, and when Tapas made skeevy changes to their ToS some people made template complaint emails that the masses could send out. It might be beneficial to rock the boat a little bit since Michael might not even get an answer.

Edit!: FFF god, I forgot to add content@tapasmedia.co. You all probably know this email as the way to opt into the tipping program, but they might be able to also help.

Yeah, I figured as much. When it comes to money corporations are pretty much all the same no matter what size, there will probably have to be a large portion of their users making a stink for them to do anything. Sorry about that.

Apologies for the delay. I am still waiting on approvals for the amount of information I can publicly disclose about the Ink system. Since the system and technology is proprietary to Tapas and includes some sensitive information, the pending request has taken longer than expected. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience. I have investigated the matter and filed an internal report.

Is that an answer?

I get that because we're not employees, or even partners in this, Tapas can not "publicly disclose" a variety things from algorithms to details of the Apple purge...and hardly get challenged on it.

But this is a real world currency transaction that affects a lot of REAL people...and we're heading into a big "event" where we're supposed to be encouraging people to take part in something that is hidden in bad math and "proprietary technology".

Even if they can explain WHY it's happening...it's a good bet they'll not be in a hurry to change it.

It is an answer to the question of no reply from Tapas.
And for now, it is good enough for me.

I have invested in this event and promised content.
I will do this for "The Show Must Go ON"
People will be able to support with free ad ink and I will encourage supporter to support with cash over Ko-Fi
My event is a running event where supporter will support a character driving a race where the future outcome of my main comic depends on the winner. (Most ink supported driver)

But I will start to incorporate Ko-Fi support where I will set my own ink value.
So if you want a specific character to win you can support with free ink, but If you support with Ko-Fi the driver will be given an unfair boost.

You are all welcome to rebel against paid ink and boost a driver with Ko-Fi

Just as others are doing by removing Ink goal with Ko-Fi right here

Maybe we can bring Comics Alliance, Bleeding Cool and The Beat into the loop.

My plan before and after Michael answer is:
I continue the Inksgiving for the Community
I go to a theme park and pay something to cast ink around, it will be fun and I don't care where my money goes to, i just have a fun time.

After I come home from the theme park i care and maybe take another theme park next year. But for now:
I cast with Ink and have fun, is that not the community way
But i have made the combos with Ko-fi because not all do like me this time. And a don't care if i get 10-15-20% back, because i will give all that ink I get back, back to the community in my Christmas event.

There have giving us 50% more ink

Screenshot_20191120-200311_Samsung Internet.jpg1079x1423 223 KB

Apologies for the delay in response time, this issue brought up in the forum topic became a company wide discussion and talking point in identifying how this issue came about in the first place and what we can do to better remedy the situation.

First off, I want to apologize for misspeaking about the functionality of the Ink system in my previous response. When I spoke about each individual Ink being meta tagged with a source and origin, I was unaware that this functionality was not implemented and was a long term plan for the Ink system. I was made aware of this mischaracterization of our current system. I apologize for the confusion that this has caused.

The Tapas Ink system (previously Coins) was originally designed for the Premium Program which creators can utilize to place episodes under a paywall and debuted in 2016. We designed various different tiers of Ink packs and implemented what we internally refer to as an exchange rate. This operates independently of the fees associated with the Tapas app and Tapas web.

When a person buys Ink they are exchanging a cash amount for a digital currency. This is the first instance of the exchange rate taking effect. At $1.99 for 1,600 Ink, the exchange rate is roughly (rounding) $1:800 Ink, all the way to the highest tier, $49.99 for 60,000 Ink which is roughly (rounding) is $1:1200 Ink. When that person decides to spend the Ink, a second exchange rate is applied when in transit to the creator, however the second exchange rate is not dynamic and is fixed at the highest tier of $1:1200, which explains the discrepancy outlined in this topic.

Because the aforementioned full functionality of Ink wasn’t implemented we are unable to apply a dynamic second exchange rate to match the first exchange rate.

To clarify this process, we’ll be adding additional language on the creator dashboard and help center to outline what the exchange rates are (this is due to ship soon).

I apologize for the delay in response, I was filing the issue while exploring the root cause and trying to propose a variety of solutions to help.

While this does answer the discrepancy between the price of the ink and the amount received by the creator, it also raises a small question, at least for me.

Specifically these parts:

This posits that the reason that the price of the ink packages can't be accounted for is because there is not meta-tagging system.

However, in Post #91, you say, regarding app fees:

and you explain it in Post #121 as:

But, as mentioned, since the meta-tagging system is not yet in place, this can't be how source and origin of ink is checked.

Yet, fees are still taken out, presumably using some other method.

So, my question is, why can't the way fees are accounted for be used to account for the different price packages? And if fees and price packages can be account in the same way, why aren't they already?

EDIT 12:00AM CST: PS. I do understand that the exchange rate and fees are independent of each other, I did read the entire answer.

I love how @michaelson has been active in this topic, it sparked a "company wide discussion" and he explains as best he can, yet people will still claim "TAPAS STAFF IGNORE THE COMMUNITY/AREN'T ACTIVE ENOUGH"

You should see it more as a compliment, in a way: 1) we did not gave up on them yet; that's when I start to be blase about a company's shady methods that the disrespect on my part starts; 2) communication with the community is pretty much an extra service compared to the competition, so it's both something that we value, but also that we expect.

One is only disappointed in something one had reasons to have some faith in; and one will only ask explanations if they have a chance to get some.

big words big charts big numbers...

i just have one major request... @michaelson, please:
can you please make it quite clear to everyone how much value their favorite creators will actually get from ink donations BEFORE they go through with the transaction?
if they're cool with how little is left in the end and go through with it, then that's fine.

But if they're expecting they're donating, say, $5, but in reality their creators are getting significantly less. Then idk. This is a sensitive matter and there has to be much more transparency for all sides involved.

I think this is a great request. We can add it to this area. We're planing to revamp creator dashboard in next year. We'll probably have your request.

image.png2094x704 54.6 KB

It's a sum of this list.

image.png2042x884 113 KB

I think Tapas already shows all information to creators but we will try to provide more clear data to our awesome creators. Also I as a CTO of Tapas, it's pretty much impossible to build to track every single Ink to understand how much of a discount was applied for which specific case. I've worked for 8 years and Tapas has been always trying to build/work for our community not using creators for Tapas's profits....
A solution to solve this conversion rating issue (if community satisfies what @michaelson said), we need to not use Ink system for Support program. I think it means that Tapas might need to sunset this Support program unless we become a big player as Naver Webtoon

I hope our community understands it and Tapas will try to find the best solution for the community.

Thank you,

Wow @Yoon
You just made my day even greater than it was before.
Thank you ️

Apologies if I get something wrong, I'm new to Tapas, Ink, and skimmed a bit of this thread.

I'm just confused as to why this is so complex? As an avid Twitch user, 100 bits (their currency) ALWAYS equals 1$, no matter any discounts/sales/etc. The fees are placed on the buyers (not necessary, just how they do it), so it costs 1.40$ to buy 100 bits. And that's it. That's their system. No other fees, no other steps, nothing.

Tapas seems like it has way more steps and explanations to get from buying Ink to transferring your balance, and I'm not sure why it's necessary. But I'm also kind of lost. Twitch's system just makes way more sense to me.

100 bits (their currency) ALWAYS equals 1$, no matter any discounts/sales/etc. The fees are placed on the buyers (not necessary, just how they do it), so it costs 1.40$ to buy 100 bits.

So, 100 bits is $1 or $1.40?

It costs 1.40$ to buy 100 bits (that's the only place with fees), but if you give 100 bits to anyone, the receiver will always get 1$.

When @michaelson and team have free time, there will come something about this in the dashboard/support pages. Please give the Tapas some times and go to have fun in the inksgiving.