Is Designdoll a reliable pose reference?

[isaacfriedman]

I've started using a software called DesignDoll as a reference for poses in my comics and art, but I've still caught a number of anatomical errors after I'm done. Is this user error or is the camera in DesignDoll wonky or is the software itself not as reliable as I think it is?

[joannekwan]

It's the models I imagine that are the issue. Even with the most realistic proportions, their 3D cluster of polygons still can't replicate the layers of flesh and muscle of a real person.

[ratique]

I didn't know DesignDoll, so I looked it up real quick. Some of the poses created with that software indeed are wonky. I also am not very fond of the huge heads of most of the models, but that seems adjustable.

Programs like this one (there are a few apps that do something similar) are a great start for poses and give you an idea of how something should be looking. Unfortunately you should never completely rely on them however.

It makes sense to use DesignDoll for the basic pose and additionally looking for reference images of similar poses, or taking a photo of yourself in the mirror. It all depends how much work you want to put into it and how important anatomical correctness is to you.

One question though: How adjustable are the dolls? Can you lengthen the legs without the arms automatically lengthening as well? I am wondering about some of those poses they have online...

[isaacfriedman]

They have adjustable bones in every limb that allow one to change length, width, and girth as well as base position (shoulders closer together or elbows higher up)

[heterodont]

tbh designdoll is a little better than other 3d model references like say, posemaniacs. However there are certain things that the models can't do that human bodies can - one of which I think is curvature of the spine? Designdoll can't curve one way where the human body can iirc, it was one of my beefs.

It's better off a tool as assistance if you already have a wide visual library or know the human body well enough to fidge anatomy to an extent. I wouldn't really recommend it if you don't already know anatomy down to a T. I know I use it for pose reference if I can't do the camera angle myself personally (or if I'm too lazy to take 50000 pictures of myself just to get one good reference photo)

[AlkseeyaKC]

I think it's best to learn anatomy so you can draw it right on your own. I use DesignDoll sometimes when I'm not sure what I really want to do with a pose or if I'm having trouble drawing a pose. I can move the 3D model around to help me out with that. I haven't used it for a while though.

[punkarsenic]

ive used design doll a bit. id say its useful if you have a specific pose you cant quite visualise, and want a reference, but approach it with a good understanding of anatomy, gesture, and exaggeration to avoid your drawing being made stiff by it.

also, its like.... so annoying to use. so annoying. i have to like fiddle around for an hour just to get an arm in place, then realise i need to move the entire fucker down. i rarely use it these days; senshistock on dA is useful for comic pose references, and i find with a stronger understanding of anatomy for artists and of gesture, alongside doing lots of figure drawing, thinking poses up without a reference (if you really cant find one) is a lot easier.

[wyldemint]

I mean I've used it now and then, for stupid tricky poses. And I think it's great, minus the amount of TIME it takes you to make the pose really really good. And then there's all the variables and how muscles work and how if you move the wrong little gray blob in the wrong place it moves the shoulder blade instead of the arm???

I guess my vote is a tentative yes, because you need to either be great at modifying the models or just supplement your own anatomical knowledge with the general idea of the pose. Phew.

[J.Z.Castillo]

I used Designdoll for like an hour. I found it to be WAY too difficult to make poses and it's just wonky as all hell. I just give up and get frustrated and all my inspiration to draw is gone. I would not recommend it at all, not for simple pose references when you can find pictures online. I always use Posemaniacs because it's nice and basic, books on anatomy, and senshistock. Designdoll is just way too big of a headache for what is worth.

[69Michi]

Yes and no. DesignDoll is just as useful to me as the 3D model that comes with Clip Studio. Each people have their own way of incorporating their artstyle into proper anatomy. 3D model only provides the basic frame and how each body part should look like in each angle for you to reference, it's not something you should trace line by line over.

[thomasfallaeriksen]

I have used it quite a bit (the freeware version). In terms of muscles, skin and all those sort of things it is lacking in my opinion. But for drawing people with clothes on, this becomes less of a problem (but it still is important of course). And when it comes to finding the proportions and the right perspectives I think it works very good. And I really like how you can tweak all the different parts of the figures.

Last year I did a project based on silhouettes where I decided that I should try to use Designdoll for most of it. This is how it went.
There are also quite a few Designdoll poses in my new book. Here is one.
I use it from time to time in my other projects too. Usually when I can't get the proportions right when drawing from my own head or when I need a certain pose and I can't find the right reference photo. It will never beat a good reference photo, but it can get the job done very well.

As previously mentioned, if you need to draw realistic skin and muscles I think you really need some more resources to work from. And/or good knowledge about anatomy.
But we shouldn't feel bad for "cheating" a little and using tools like this. Even the great old masters used a few tricks like the camera obscura and the viewfinder.

[respheal]

I think it's handy, but it shouldn't be the be-all-end-all draw-it-exactly-like-you-have-the-doll posed thing. It is going to have anatomical issues, it's going to have posing issues, and it's going to have....I guess camera issues? Like it doesn't help if you kinda wanna fish-eye a shot is what I mean. But it is a dang handy tool for getting started.

The rough sketch phase is the thing I have the hardest time with in my drawing and using 3D models reaaaaaally helps me avoid the "that is not an arm that is a broken mass of flesh" problems in the rough stages. I've started using it in some more recent work just because I keep trying these difficult angles and poses xD;

From my current WIP:

I changed up the posing for the right arm in the sketch because I wanted more of the arm+hand in the camera. Also realized I didn't angle his shoulders nearly enough. This is just a traceover so I have an idea of where to go from here, like I definitely need to redo his facial structure pretty much 80%, the hand is pretty derped, right side of chest also derped.........there's a lot of work still to go...but it's a much better start than if I had free-handed it ;w;

Another example where I made a really lousy attempt at freehanding a difficult angle first. Left is free-hand (and honestly pretty rushed--I like to think had I put in more effort it might've been much better...), right is the final inking after I had a go at it with a 3D model (don't have the sketch on hand but oh well):

The 3D model I used was way too bulky for this character so I had to trim it down pretty significantly but I think it came out pretty good and a hell of a lot better than my freehand attempt. It's certainly no replacement for actually knowing anatomy and perspective, but in my case I find it a really handy tool to help compensate for my failings.

Edit: Okay I feel really silly that this didn't occur to me earlier, but 3d modeling would probably also be good help for shadow placement if you can manipulate the light source 8V Further investigation required.

[mechafeedalert]

The problem with using any 3D posing tools is that you'll get anatomically correct figure but stiff posture that most mediocre comics suffer from.

The easiest way to learn drawing poses is through YouTube. There's Sycra, Sinix, and countless others that are a lot better at teaching art than most people here are.

One dirty trick is to steal poses from your favorite comic. Some people do just that and they eventually manage to draw poses decently on their own.

[isaacfriedman]

Here are a few examples of what I've done with DesignDoll specifically. I don't have the best eye for motion, especially in my own work, so I'm not sure if they necessarily suffer form the stiffness that has been mentioned.

[mechafeedalert]

Exactly. Anatomically correct, you can be mad at me but I'm just being blunt, it's too stiff. The thing about gesture drawing is it push you to really think about the motion you want to convey, how to shift weight, etc,etc.

It's about cultivating habits. Gesture drawing lets you critically think of each decision that you made, it lets you progressively improve your drawing skill as you go along.
Manipulating a digital mannequin and then copying or tracing the line, sure you can exaggerate the anatomy to add some dynamism, but since it doesn't really require you to do that it lets you develop this bad habit. Just copy and trace.

[isaacfriedman]

Interesting... so I actually have a similar issue with my freehand work and figure drawing practice. What exactly makes a figure look stiff and what are the first steps towards making them look more dynamic?

[mechafeedalert]

I'm a really bad teacher with my bad grammar and I think video is a far better medium for that purpose.

It's a very broad topic that you can spent hours on.
So instead just of posting a video link I suggest you google search "sycra's simplified anatomy model".
I don't know if it's the best but it's one of the better channels on YouTube about this topic.

[mechafeedalert]

Okay like in this video notice how he change certain things to make the shortening looks good.
Foreshortening is tricky to get right, even if you trace it 1:1 it would still looks wonky if you mess up on the lighting.
Also he exaggerate all the poses to better show the line of motion, that kind of thing.

In a kind of weird way, drawing doesn't looks real if you draw it exactly like real life.

Btw he completely butchered the last pose (the B-Boy doing the freeze stuff). I don't know why some of the best illustrator still struggling with that kind of poses but yeah.. That's that.