Aug 2016
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Aug 2016
Aug 2016
mariusthered
Aug '16

so it's starting to feel i spend most of my free time working on a comic that only a hand full of people enjoy, and I'm baffled as to why?

for newbies and those who don't know i have a comic called Talesfromswipecity4 it's a mix of drama / slice of life/ crime/school/ city politics in short i try to bend in a wide story line selection to have something everyone can enjoy.

I think one of the problems is people don't enjoy the backgrounds being used are made by poser 10

sample A is how the scene would look normally using poser 10

sample b i have drawn out the background and think this is how it's going to look from season 13

is this better?
I don't seem to be able to pass 40 subs no matter how i try to change the story.

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    Aug '16

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    Aug '16
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WakaXO
Aug '16

I like sample B better, but I think you should add simple shading/highlights like you have on the characters so they look more grounded in the scene. (if that makes sense ^^; )

mariusthered
Aug '16

thanks , after all the years ive been drawing I have never got along with shading, I guess there is no getting away from it.

punkarsenic
Aug '16

try changing the colours; make them work together better, to make the image look less like a diagram and more like a drawing. Also, I like adding a gradient overlay layer at the top; it adds an extra dimension and makes it pleasing to the eye, and can also indicate where the lights coming from.

UzukiCheverie
Aug '16

Honestly, I don't know if anyone else feels the same, but I feel it's something that needs to be said, as I've seen your work many times in the past and it's not just a background that can make people not want to follow your work.

Your drawings look a lot like stock photos. Like someone has previously mentioned, they look more like diagrams than actual drawings. I don't know what drawing methods/techniques you use, but a lot of the times your drawings/compositions do come across as stiff and uneventful, even during the eventful scenes (which I know you do a fair bit of because of the genre of your comic being crime/drama/etc.) When you can't see any life being breathed into the characters, it can create a very "office" atmosphere (outside of actual office scenes lol). People want to read comics to be entertained, not to be brought back down to the drudgery of real life.

I want you to go and find examples of both manga and webcomics, specifically color ones. Take a look at colored works like Fisheye Placebo, Sanity Circus, Grassblades, etc. and see how they handle movement in their comics. Experiment with your panelling, don't feel like you're limited to a box. Use some different angles, take the time to adjust your scene to be more dynamic and interesting. Obtaining some kind of intense dynamic to your comic is important, especially when it's in comics that are more drama based and may get slow at times in plot. Don't just think about it in comic form either - what would it be like to watch this as a movie? How would the camera angles be placed? Where would you place your actors? If you couldn't imagine watching it on the big screen, chances are it won't work very well in a comic (this is just a general rule of thumb though; comics have the extra advantage of being able to cut panels and break out of them and such). I know if I was watching this specific example play out on screen, it would come across as very poor, as there's a lot of negative space surrounding the characters (and not in a good way) the colors don't stand out, and the composition is just not very structured.

And no, you don't need to shade in comics, but doing flat colors along with just flat environments in essence makes the entire scene come across as boring and dull. So yes, I'd suggest you learn how to shade and render lighting as well because it's definitely a viable skill to have and can add so much more depth to your work - but remember that the composition as a whole, from layout to BG to expressions, etc. will be what will really make your comic pop.

Sorry if a lot of this comes across as harsh, I've seriously been meaning to give you a critique like this for a long time and this seemed like the best opportunity to xD You could have a very dramatic, intense comic to read here, but its visual setbacks are keeping it from obtaining that depth. Even if you need to take the extra time to redraw a scene or set up the background or experiment with expressions, whatever - this is comics, and in 2D work, exaggeration and clarity is everything. Don't settle for mediocre.

Specifically speaking backgrounds though, I like the first one better just because it has a bit more to it. However drawing your backgrounds would be a good replacement if you were willing to put in the amount of shading and detail that the first version has to recreate the depth in the room.

PotooGryphonFriendly Neighborhood Gryphon Rider
Aug '16

Aronthemason uses 3D to create their comics. I think a bit of the uncanny valley plays a part in the off feeling that 3D can sometimes bring about. Still images of 3D don't seem to register as well as moving animated 3D imo. It's very easy for 3D models to come across stiff. I think 3D comics might also be a required taste(?)

And love the advice @UzukiCheverie giving but Aron might be limited in capabilities depending on the 3D software being used. Programs like 3D sketchup it's near impossible to texture and light a convincing scene. I'm not sure what is available in Poser 10.

3D is a super tricky medium and it's so easy for the slightest thing to through the whole image off. Between Uncanny Valley and it requiring a required taste it's definitely more of a challenge then drawing comics and even drawing comics can feel like this.

Honestly, to me B is slightly better to A however the characters are the most important part to storytelling. Perhaps try something completely new and try drawing your comic in a easy to manage cartoony style. Look at series Lunarbaboon and Postcard in Braille. It's possible to tell really good drama and slice of life in a cartoony less detailed style that I think you might be trying too hard to capture in 3D.

mariusthered
Aug '16
UzukiCheverie

thanks for the feedback and I appreciate what you have said but i'm a bit taken a back to be honest. I will take a bit of time to consider things

UzukiCheverie
Aug '16
PotooGryphon

OH I see lol Yeah I could have sworn I had seen TFSC in 2D at one point but I mean, it's been a while since I've checked it out too :stuck_out_tongue: In which case, yes, that would make sense - 3D comics are so difficult to pull off and doing them right almost requires you to turn them into 2D (I believe that's what Fisheye Placebo is working on doing from this point on - creating 3D models for their characters and then painting over them.)

Haha don't worry about it, sorry if it came across as snide or impersonal, I've checked out your comic many times before and though I'm not subscribed to it, the advice that I just gave you has been sorta boiling in the back of my mind for a while and felt it needed to be said - for the sake of improving further, not to make you feel bad or anything ^ ^"""

That being said, Cyndi has enlightened me that you are using 3D softwares to create your characters, so all I have to say about it is this - don't be afraid to think outside of the box. You do have limitations working in 3D softwares, but there are lots of neat things you can do with them too, and if you can find a way to merge 3D with the 2D platform that's comics (ex. the Fisheye Placebo method I mentioned above), you could probably deliver something totally unique to your comic :slight_smile: (which would be pretty cool). Plus there are a few other things you can work on to make up for what 3D can tend to lack in - such as properly balancing your camera angles and compositions, as I mentioned in my original comment. Good luck! <3

mariusthered
Aug '16

this is what the scene looks like just using the poser software

i have been drawing out the figures for a few reasons.

  1. i all ready know a lot of people don't like CG comics and they can come off as plastic feeling
  2. to just do cg pics means i would have to increase the wardrobe of each character and that takes up more hard drive space and can be expensive buying more props. (where as if i draw out the figures i can change things)
  3. using a poser cast means i can depend of the characters looking consistent no matter the pose.

I am considering a new style but after all the work i've done no way am I starting from the beginning.

thanks for the feedback so far.

jessicasurline
Aug '16

I think one thing that could help your scenes is finding a balance to create unity of style. In example B, the characters have some soft shading but the background has almost no shading. Since you are using a 3D tool for setting things up, take note of the lighting: which walls are darker than others? Gradients can be of use too. To help ground objects, darken corners, or add a slight color variation so objects feel less flat. Choosing a less saturated color palette will also improve your scenes. Humans have a hard time looking at certain colors. These colors can end up coming off as tense or conflicting with surrounding colors. For example, the water cooler and the bookshelf glass are competing for attention over the characters due to their brightness and saturation. Tone those elements down a little and darken one wall and you will feel the room calm down. I bet that will help keep eyes on your work longer, giving you more of a chance to shine. I do like how your composition is focused on the characters. Many people have a hard time with their camera compositions so you are doing well there. smile
What you have is a good start and with a little bit of adjustment you will appeal to more viewers. Keep your chin up!

Michelle
Aug '16

I agree that the backgrounds are not the main issue here. I understand using 3D to structure and pose a scene; I use models sometimes to do my comic's layouts and draw over them. But when it comes to people, unless you make major changes to the base model, they're going to look like eerie mannequins. Uncanny valley is a huge turn-off for most readers. Honestly, most of the character art I see in your comic feels very stiff and lifeless.

My suggestion would be to learn figure drawing skills with an emphasis on gesture. An anatomically flawed but expressive pose will win over more people than anatomically accurate but stiff posture.

Improved colour, lettering, perspective and shading will also do wonders to help the comic, but I think until the core issue of the character drawings is addressed, it's gonna continue to be a tough sell.

mariusthered
Aug '16
jessicasurline

thank you for your helpful feedback. some good tips there i will take to account.

@Michelle yes you are right i have become too dependent on my poser software. I can draw figures as i am a caricaturist but when comic drawing ive become a bit lazy it's one area i will have to sort out. thank you for the feedback.

mariusthered
Aug '16

just spent a bit of time working on the page and decided with this...

I decided than anything none essential background wise can just be grey so not to compete with my figures.
also remember the speech bubbles are not showing to avoid spoiling things for my readers.

thanks for the feedback peeps.

avalonmao
Aug '16

I like the first panel. It's more homey.
I think that to gain subscriptions it's easier on tapastic because there are users who are pure readers, whereas on say comicfury most of your audience and subscribers would also be artists who would hope that you would also read their work, understandably.
So if you want to bring in more readers, that would really help the system I think, because right now we are basically more oversaturated with creators and are in need of readers, to say the least.
In addition, I see that you post a lot of forums. That's useful, and basically the opposite of what I do, since the most activity I do on this website is on marathoning comics and commenting on every single page. It's important to make a balance between both, and to link to your comic whenever possible. I'm going to be honest, I didn't really even know that you had one until you linked it just now!
Best of luck, I know what it's like wishing that your life's work can bear some fruit. Everything takes time, and each work is different and it may take time to find your own niche.

mariusthered
Aug '16

Im having one of those nights where i cannot sleep 4:15 am and i'm still drawing frowning

anyhow this is what i' thinking of doing with my cast members drawing them in more of a caricature style ( as I am a caricaturist)

mariusthered
Aug '16
1

So i spent a bit of time thinking things over and trying new styles and came up with another way of drawing my comic. I'm still going to use my poser software as a guide but i have realized i have been depending too much on it and my art skills have become a bit lazy because of this.

so I've thrown sketching back into the mix and worked out slight changes to my characters to move them away from the poser models a bit. I think this gives a better result.

this sample has not shading yet! but shows the basic line work. I hate inking so tips on line thickness most welcome..

PotooGryphonFriendly Neighborhood Gryphon Rider
Aug '16

It's definitely looking better and less uncanny valley. YAY!

With using poser, watch out for wonky things 3D models do like the guy's close fist on the table. Granted that might be what the scene is calling for but without context it looks like a generic close hand pose from a 3D model and unnatural looking.

Have you instead possibly tried posing for scenes yourself and taking photo references or google searching for certain poses and drawing that way?

Not to discourage the use of 3D however, 3D just has a stiffness to it that's hard to shake. Using photo references from real life poses would be a better source to breath more life and energy into a drawing.

For inking tips, you'll want a good sensitivity on your pen if your drawing with a tablet, and thicker lines are used to indicate shadows so use them on sides facing away from your light source and thinner lines for sides of the character facing the light source. Eventually, with practice, your hand with naturally apply pressure for thick lines in the appropriate areas and ease up for thin lines.

mariusthered
Aug '16

thanks for the advice. i did learn lots of this stuff years ago but most of the stuff i never needed i just forgot.

re the hands it's mom and dad holding hands that's why it look square, I will try and work on that.