Is this really a disorder?

beta1042 2018-12-07 16:27:05 UTC #7

well I'm not a psychologist, but I did almost go into it and I have a lot of psychologists in my family so at the time I was studying it I asked them essentially similar questions(not about this particular disorder but about other disorders- like what makes this different than that type questions)

The answers I usually received are
1)Textbooks for early classes outline some very basic things but never really fully dive deeply into the disorder to the level that an actual psychologist knows. In other words this is just touching upon the surface of what the disorder is, and if you were you continue your studies you'd probably read case studies of more specifics of those behaviors and how they are different from say an introvert.
2) A person who gets classified with that disorder is a very very EXTREME case of those conditions where the behaviors are so intense they are effecting the person's ability to live their life. The easiest example to explain this is someone could explain depression to someone and it can sound like the a depressed person is simply sad. But anyone who has had depression knows its way way more than that, it's just not always easy to explain it. Or like how people think OCD is wanting to be neat and orderly, when really it's a condition where you need to be so picky about certain things you cannot move forward without doing XYZ first(twisting the door knob exactly 7 times before actually opening the door, things like that)
3)Even among psychologists there can be controversy on diagnosing and what should and shouldn't be determined a disorder.

In the case of your specific disorder. As a disorder I would consider this being again a very extreme case which is making it hard for the person to live out their life in a manner they desire. so what if the book went further and said a person who is avoiding social interactions to the point that they cannnot get a job/hold a job, they are becoming very detached from society, are locking themselves in a room or basement or something for very large chunks of time, not even leaving the room to go eat, bathroom, shower, launder clothes, etc if there are people outside the room, etc etc extremes like that. Where you're no longer capable of doing basic things because of the social interactions that occur. AGAIN I'm not a psychologist- I'm not claiming that this disorder is exactly like I am saying, but I could see if those are the case studies associated with this disorder that it would be classified a disorder.

Right now I would assume you do not have the disorder because you are
1)socializing with people on the internet a decent amount- as in you are initiating a lot of conversations almost daily with new threads
2)seem to be seeking praise and validation for your actions online, and upset at people who criticize or disagree with your threads.
3) Clearly showing emotions in these online debates. Especially when you are misunderstood.

Translation- You still want social interactions, and you still care what people think. doesn't sound like the description you provided of a cold detached emotionless person who avoids as many people as possible.

crayon_witch 2018-12-07 17:11:39 UTC #8

I thiiink that in order to be diagnosed with a disorder, it has to cause you trouble functioning in your every day life? Most people who get diagnosed want treatment, after all! If you genuinely think there’s something wrong, I feel that going to a professional might be more helpful than here! Good luck!

(it’s also important to note that the DSM is widely criticized as being flawed, so I think taking the criteria in it with a grain of salt is probably a good idea in most cases.)

ratscout 2018-12-07 17:58:22 UTC #9

I almost have my BA in psychology, so I have a pretty good working knowledge of the field.

The interesting thing about personality disorders is that they don't typically cause functional impairment (don't impede a person's ability to go to school or work, etc.), which probably factors into the faulty research about them and the reason why it's hard to diagnose them as disorders at all.

If I remember correctly, folks with personality disorders are almost always referred into therapy by friends or family (or sometimes by the court system), so they themselves don't even recognize there's anything wrong with them at all. Personality disorders are also incredibly hard to treat because they are mostly biological and there aren't any real medications that can reduce the symptoms, but that shouldn't put anyone off from seeking therapy if they suspect they have one. At the very least, therapy can help people control some of the unwanted behaviors/symptoms that come with those disorders.

Some personality disorders do need to be treated, such as anti-social personality disorder because these are the folks that were most likely referred in by the court system and need to be treated. But there are other folks with less harmful personality disorders that are kind of a big question mark. Schizoid personality disorder is one of them because the person who has it... Well, their behavior might be off-putting to the people they know/work with, but they aren't really hurting anyone and they aren't necessarily unhappy, so it should be their own call whether they want therapy.

Otherwise, I do think the other people on this thread are nailing it again. When I first got into psychology I thought a lot of disorders sounded like me--but you need to get yourself diagnosed to know for sure--if it's something that even bothers you.

punkarsenic 2018-12-07 18:39:39 UTC #10

oh yeah totally, im not discrediting the dsm-5, its a useful tool. B was mostly in response to your question 'is this a real disorder' - like, yes it is, but could easily be defined out of existence if the wind changes, and its hard to say if its a biological truth.

DokiDokiTsuna 2018-12-07 19:15:32 UTC #11

I don't mean to be rude, but...if you think you can tell me whether or not something is a problem for me based on a few internet discussions (that went horribly wrong, by the way), I'd feel compelled to call your judgment into question.

What I do here is not the whole story of my life. And as someone who's an introvert if nothing else, how I behave on the internet is worlds apart from how I behave IRL. You can assume all you want, but I don't see why you would bother when you clearly don't have all the facts.

Besides, you don't have to meet ALL the written criteria for a disorder in order to be diagnosed with it. Like everyone else is saying here, psychology is messy. You can't expect everyone to fit the textbook definitions to a T; every human brain is unique.
Even the textbook itself said you 'should' meet at least 4 of the criteria it gave, indicating that (a) any 4 items on the list could be signs of the disorder, and (b) it's possible that you could have the disorder despite not meeting that requirement. You need a bigger picture to work with, not just a list.

P.S. This isn't even supposed to be about me?? I was just using myself as an example of how someone with Schizoid personality disorder might think about treatment.

paperwren 2018-12-07 20:45:15 UTC #12

People have said some good stuff here already that I think sums stuff up quite well. The DSM5 really is just North Americans manual for having shorthand categories for people based on symptom clusters so they can give them a specific kind of therapy or bill insurance companies. Personality disorders in general are pretty controversial and its very possible they are going to look very different in the next DSM.

The UK uses a different diagnostic system generally, the ICD which is put out by the WHO. What's cool is they are moving away from diagnostic categories and starting to look at something called "transdiagnostic mechanisms" where instead of being in a category like "depression" or "anxiety" they look at what might be the underlying cause of your symptoms like rumination, hyperarousal, environmental conditioning, etc, and then target those mechanisms for treatment directly. The logic is that because most diagnosis have the criteria that you meet at least (for example) 4/6 criteria, you could have two people in the same diagnostic category with only one overlapping symptom, but then they all get the same treatment and its assumed that you have 6/6 symptoms. It also will probably be useful because things like anxiety and depression are really frequently comorbid, often because they share the same underlying mechsnisms.

Anyway social sciences are arbitrary because we're still figuring out how to help and treat people and are generally very bad at mental health diagnosis. I meet all symptoms for premenstrual dysphoric disorder but it's not at a level where I can't function so I do not have that disorder and would not be diagnosed with it if I went to a psychologist. Psychology!

beta1042 2018-12-07 21:45:37 UTC #13

I start my reply to this thread with "I'm not a psychologist" so no I do not think I am qualified to diagnosis or undiagonsis anything about you. But I can answer the question how I see it and tell you my thoughts and ideas on the matter, which is sort of the point of an online forum, is it not? You're welcome to disagree with anything I say on the matter, I don't understand why you're so offended by it tho- I mean I'm telling you to me it doesn't sound like you have a disorder based on the little info presented... That was supposed to be good news, no?

I brought you up specifically because in your first post you say:

Which implies to me that the reason for you making this thread in the first place is a concern that you may have the disorder.

As you saw I did try to my best to answer your other questions as well, but I felt like addressing how it relates to you specifically because of that line. So sorry for trying to put your mind at ease.

To be completely straight up with you, I am once again in a position where I do not know what you really want from one of your threads. If you are asking for the advice of a professional maybe it is best you email these questions or concerns to your professor who is teaching the class, or visit them during their office hours (Or even make an appointment with the school psychologist) rather than pose your question to a forum full of artists and writers who can only share their personal and unprofessional(in this matter) beliefs.

GesuGesu 2018-12-07 21:57:20 UTC #14

Simple answer: yes, this is a disorder because IT'S IN YOUR TEXTBOOK.

Extra answer: You are self-diagnosing yourself based on what you read and learn, a symptom even typical medical students end up doing to themselves as they learn to diagnose diseases. Don't overthink it. You're not a licensed or certified psychiatrist yet so don't self-diagnose yourself.

Finally, stop asking questions when you clearly have a "preferred" answer in your mind already?

kalrhungus 2018-12-07 22:00:59 UTC #15

it's not a disorder if you don't have a problem with it. psychology is wrong most of the time anyway

Pandastrophic 2018-12-07 22:34:27 UTC #16

I'm not a professional either, I only studied psychology in school to some capacity and it is something I research and write about a lot. I think it's very normal that when you're studying psychology to self-diagnose or in this case relate to characteristics of disorders you're studying about. I do think you should be careful about it though, getting into the mindset that you might have a disorder without consulting a professional isn't the healthiest thing to do. Characteristics of Schizoid could be attributed to other things that you might not even have studied about yet and the symptoms could be a front for a completely different disorder.
For example, this happens with cases where people think they have anxiety but the anxiety is actually covering up a major depressive disorder.

I think there is a misconception about visiting a specialist because you don't have to have something definitively wrong with your mental health to visit a specialist. If you have any of the things you listed then it's good to talk to someone about it, someone who'll be able to explain why you feel that way and hopefully clear things up for you.

Merle 2018-12-07 22:50:29 UTC #17

Yeah, it´s really a disorder
you don´t seem to have it, but if you are, like, really really worried, you can always go

to a real psychologist.

rainbowolfe 2018-12-08 04:55:04 UTC #18

Heyo! A bit late to the party but I figured as someone with Schizoid PD I'd throw my two cents in! I'm not gonna directly quote anyone so as not to call anyone out, but I wanted to address a few things.
(Disclaimer: i can't speak for every schizoid out there, of course)

-In regards to the 4 Ds, the Danger part is more towards the self. A lack of pleasure in doing things can lead to extreme, risky behavior if there is a desire for pleasure. Also, maybe more related to Dysfunction, extended solitude in humans can lead to depressive episodes .3.

-I'm an eccentric person, and being rude to people is more effort than it's worth--so I'm friends with everyone I meet. The relationships are shallow though, and I'm ready to let them burn at any moment if people want more from me than I want to give (emotionally).
Not to say I don't have close friends, it's the one criteria I don't have. I've got about 4 people I actually enjoy and can call close friends. Everyone else is on neutral ground with me.

-"Suffering" is a strong word, but I do experience negative aspects. Being a Schizoid doesn't seem like a problem, but it comes with all these little things that make you realize you probably aren't living your best life.

-i too seek praise and validation, but the way I react to it, you'd think I didn't care

-Also, I'm not emotionless .3. My relationship with emotions is just complex. I get mad, I get sad (though mostly only in reaction to fictional characters), I get incredibly frustrated when I'm not understood. It's not that I don't have emotions, it's just that the physical signs of showing the emotion are flattened. OR (and this happens more in person, than on online) I cannot process what's happened and I express the wrong emotion.
But this is the internet! We only talk through text! I know the emotion I'm trying to express, so i can overcompensate with emojis o3o and explanation points! Keyboard smashes and the like!

-I also don't avoid people (unless they're being clingy). I may be detached from my emotions, but they're still there. Being schizoid is complex, and can't be boiled down to just hating people.

But finally. which seems to be your main concern:
I got a diagnosis because it would benefit me. I now have an excuse to fall back on when I just don't have the energy to act like a normal person. Particularly helpful when dealing with family.
However, I don't get treatment cause it's inconvenient. The only treatment for schizoids is talk therapy and I don't.... like... talking a lot.... especially not about myself. I can also manage to be mid-to-high-functioning, probably because of the 4 close friends I've accepted into my life.

DokiDokiTsuna 2018-12-08 05:06:59 UTC #19

Are you doing this again?? Please, stop...
I can disagree with you WITHOUT it being for the same reasons as before, can't I? I'm starting to feel like I'm being harassed...if you think you'll eventually be able to 'fix' me if you keep bringing up and re-explaining this issue, I can tell you right now that it's not going to happen.

I'm not screaming at everyone and telling them they're all wrong. I just explained to you why I thought your statement was ill-informed. I...AM still allowed to do that, aren't I? I'm allowed to share my thoughts and ideas, too, aren't I??

(1) I disagree on that reasoning, but okay.
(2) Again, I was just using myself as an example of how someone with Schizoid personality disorder might think about treatment. I'm sorry if I made it sound otherwise (I can feel like I relate to a disorder without seriously believing that I have it, can't I?)
(3) It's possible to have one answer in your mind already and STILL be interested in what other people think. After all, everyone keeps (unnecessarily) reminding me that the point of a forum is to discuss things, not necessarily to be educated.

And on that note, I haven't told anyone that their answers are wrong, or complained that their answers don't match mine. Like the person above, I feel like you're anticipating a problem that isn't actually happening, which is a bit insulting, to be honest.

Ooh, we read briefly about the ICD a few months ago. Interesting developments~
Although, I don't think any therapist worth their salt would do ^that. Even if they depend on the DSM for guidance, a good psychologist would treat a person according to their individual set of symptoms.

For that matter, does the DSM have treatment instructions, too?? I've never actually looked at it...I assumed they just described disorders and maybe gave psychiatric suggestions.

@rainbowolfe
That's really interesting; thanks for sharing your experience! ^^

paperwren 2018-12-08 05:28:56 UTC #20

I am actually training in this stuff, a lot of treatments, specifically cognitive behavioural manualized therapies are like big workbooks that you go through the whole thing, regardless of if everything applies to you. Also a lot of people get treated in psycho-educational groups. Edit; also when you get diagnosed it is sometimes by people doing assessments, and then not actually the person who treats you, who just sees that you have "depression" and your file doesn't specify which criteria led to that diagnosis. This actually happens a lot unfortunately!

Also we talk about psychotherapists who are "worth their salt" but at least in Canada there is a distressing lack of regulation of practice and a lot of people do not regularly consult the literature or try and keep up with evidence based practices. Which, there is another argument to be made there about how we research psychology and our over-emphasis on randomized clinical trials that may not be measuring what people are actually doing in sessions, but that's a whole other topic.

The DSM doesn't specifically have best practices, but the American Psychological Association does (well, evidence based practice):

https://www.div12.org/treatments

There are also the NICE guidelines put out by the UK:
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/CG123

BobbyjoeX 2018-12-08 05:36:34 UTC #21

i thought this was a comic forum o-o

DokiDokiTsuna 2018-12-08 05:37:13 UTC #22

Sometimes people discuss other random things. In my case, other very random things~

BobbyjoeX 2018-12-08 05:39:55 UTC #23

no, i mean... this is a comic forum... if you wanted a real answer you should have asked on a forum that is more suited to your question

Luminosophy 2018-12-08 05:41:29 UTC #24

I know someone who was incorrectly diagnosed in Canada with Aspergers because they threw a tantrum over someone sitting in their chair when they were 5 years old. Flash forward several years later, new psych says there's no evidence for them having aspergers and the medication would've been ineffective at treating it anyway given the dosage. Family still believes they have it and is lowkey used as a means to not take them seriously on many topics. Incorrect diagnoses can really fuck up people's lives.

paperwren 2018-12-08 05:44:31 UTC #25

I should make it clear, there is slightly more regulation at the level of psychologists who can diagnose Neurodevelopmental disorders like ASD (I don't doubt your friend was misdiagnosed, and it sucks when people use neurodifferences or mental illness as a tool against others in any form, yikes), but yeah, it's not anywhere near the level of control over doctors, and varies a lot between provinces. There has been a lot of effort over the last ten years to get a licencing college like the college of physicians in place across different provinces.

DokiDokiTsuna 2018-12-08 05:48:39 UTC #26

I dunno, I feel like the amount of people here with informed opinions on the subject justifies its introduction. I actually didn't expect to hear from people in the psychology field, but here we are. '_'

Besides, I don't see why I should have to justify it. Is there a rule that says topics not directly related to comics are unwelcome? This isn't the first topic I've started that fits that bill, so if you'd like to write me a citation, I suggest you go to my profile and start digging; I've got a rap sheet as long as your arm...

If I had to justify it, though, I'd say this: Lots of comic authors like to create characters with psychological disorders and anomalies, and learning more about the nuances involved in the subject can make us all better writers in that area. Knowledge is power!