LGBTQ folks, what frustrates you about BL/GL and what would you like to see more of?

[Minn]

What I hate about bl sometimes, is that I can't find the right ones,
George and Johnny,

George and Johnny | Tapas

Is a beautiful comic, almost the best one I've read in a really long time.
so is Jamie (the new and old one doesn't matter which they are both beautiful lmao),

Jamie | Tapas

But I can't seem to find the cutesy gay comics im trying to find here -o-

[violin]

Just to clarify, if you're demi or pansexual or some other orientation or even a straight person with more in-depth knowledge of the community still feel free to comment! Don't mean to restrict this discussion by any means

[kytri]

I'm a gay trans man and to be honest I read a lot less BL and Yaoi than I used to. I'm honestly mostly just bored with the majority of stuff out there?

People have already mentioned the issues with the weird heteronormative aspects and the consent issues when it comes to sexual content. I'm personally concerned about how common controlling and abusive behaviors outside the bedroom are framed as being romantic. Not just in BL but in romance in general, it worries me because a lot of the people reading these kinds of stories are young and still learning how to navigate romantic relationships.

It honestly makes me pretty concerned about an aspect of my own comic. It's not BL but it is LGBTQ+. One of the characters is basically a walking red flag, but he's conventionally attractive and I'm worried people will interpret his grooming and boundary pushing behaviors as romantic.

My other sort of personal pet peeve is how samey the body types are. Like how many BL stories are thin fair skinned guy with dark hair X thin fair skinned guy with light hair? Some of it is just my taste in men leans more bearish the older I get, but I also just wish there was more variety? I wish there was more of a market for more variety.

[violin]

I'm not super familiar with the nuances, what is the expected difference between a comic labeled "BL" vs "LGBTQ+"? Or is it more down to preference?

Yeah stalkerish or creepy af tendencies are definitely way too common in regular romances too unfortunately.

I wonder if the body types thing has to do with the fact that a lot the original stories came from Japan, where the body types do tend to be a bunch of skinny guys lol. And then other creators copied the trope but ported it to Western characters without thinking about the differences in Western body types and culture (working out more) etc

[laiscnogueira]

I think Dragon Husband is a good example of things that work on a LGBTQ romance.

Dragon Husbands | Tapas

The 4 MC are in a polyamorous relationship and are bi/gay. The plot is long and they slowly get to know each other (except maybe for Kick, who has a more "let's do it" attitude at first, but then that's okay, 'cuz some people are like that so it's believable and he too has some character growth in other aspects; he's not simply a shallow person who is there for the fan service).

Heavy Horns | Tapas

Heavy horns is great too and the MC have a healthy relationship at the end of the day.

Autophobia | Tapas

Autophobia is another great one.

And a few others that develop well IMO:

Orange Hickey Dad | Tapas

Dissent | Tapas

Spidersilk | Tapas

Tapas is a better place to find BL/GL sometimes, since the creators themselves are more diverse than with manga.

[Alex9Wolf9]

When there is 10% plot line and 90% just sex. And UNREALISTIC sex.

[yozhikisblue]

I can't help but be wary of stories that market themselves as BL or GL for many of the reasons listed above. These genres often leave me feeling fetishized by someone outside the LGBTQ community who seems to have bizarre misconceptions about the kind of relationships people like me have. At the same time- I've seen straight, cisgender people write phenomenal stories starring LGBTQ characters, so when I see tired stereotypes recycled over and over again, I can't help but feel it's just sheer laziness. Universalized dom/sub dynamics based in feminine or masculine appearances, lack of consent, continued insistence by protagonists that "I'm not gay and gay people (especially gay men) are gross!" despite being attracted to the same gender, compulsory monogamy and all characters always being cisgender (because of course?)- the list goes on. Surely we could all get past this if we wrote characters as people first, and tried to get into their heads as though they were all real people? But maybe I'm just being optimistic here x') P.S. At the risk of tmi, I'm a a bisexual and rather androgynous transgender man in a longstanding committed open relationship with a cisgender man, so for reference, that's the perspective I'm coming from.

[LordVincent]

Haha I think I might be the only gay bud in here who likes stories that have a lot of sexual intimacy in them. I find it beautiful and romantic if done right. But I have a very sex positive and openminded attitude about it in general so I guess I see it differently.

[kytri]

In my case I'm writing a story with a trans main character, most of the rest of the cast is also queer in some respect, and it's a fantasy adventure, not a romance. There is probably going to be a love interest for the main character eventually but it's not going to develop for a long time. To me BL and GL cover a very narrow subset of romance stories and LGBTQ+ people can be in any type of story.

I suppose copying Japanese tropes is probably a factor, but I think cultural biases are probably a factor too. After all it's not like all asian men are thin and pretty. Similarly the people in hollywood movies tend to be thinner and more conventionally attractive than the average american.

[yozhikisblue]

haha nope you are definitely not the only one! I wish more stories were sex positive and depicted genuine intimacy

[kytri]

You're not, I also like stories with a lot of sex. It's the done right part I'm a stickler about.

I actually do a bit of adults only art and writing, I just don't post it here.

[jurinova]

A lot of good points are made here and I agree with most of them. Sometimes you can just smell the stereotypical writing based on straight stereotypes from afar. Both BL and GL seem to have these ridiculous hetero ideas where one must be feminine and one must be masculine. It's so frustrating and insulting. Not to mention how often the stereotype of pushy, predatory gays is used. Ugh.

I'm also all for the occassional sex scene but so often it seem to be done to titillate the straight audience and it lacks genuine emotion or any sense of reality. I think it could just be that they're getting all their information from yaoi and yuri, which is... not good. It's so rare to see a comic where people laugh or have fun during sex. Or just even communicate normally. Or like, have safe sex.

In BL I think it's terrible how often all women are assholes, especially if it's an ex-girlfriend. Also no one is ever bisexual, even if they've had several girlfriends before. Bisexuality seems like a curse word in the land of BL.

I enjoy a story where the characters are more than their sexuality or gender. Romance is great, but I like to read about more than just that. If all the struggles in the plot revolve only around the romance it's boring. Characters need a life outside of their special other, and this applies to hetero romances too.

[punkarsenic]

i think id like there to be more ~ugliness and gender non conformity. a lot of GL and mainstream f/f media focuses on gender conforming fems, and theres little to be seen of butches or lesbian/wlw culture. i think its a shame, bc we have a really rich culture

[Kura]

A lot of stuff has already been mentioned, but I'll add this awkward one I constantly seem to run into.

Impossible sex that is impossible only for the fact that rolls are gendered. I mean to say when the sex is just straight sex but with a bl cover.

Self lubricating butt-holes are not a thing. It's actually really gross when I read a line commenting on how wet their butt is because they're 'obviously ready for the smex'

Instead if getting me interested in the scene it just makes me horrified because no... if your butt-hole is all hot bothered and wet you should probably not engage in sexual activities because you have mad diarrhea and you're about to turn this situation into a nightmarish mess.

Another not so awkward one. The "I'm not gay but we gotta SIN and have sex if we want to survive."

Another one is casually molestation or as a cute funny hahah 'see you can tell he's GAY' joke. It's not fking cute. It like the "perverted character but it's FUNNY trope" but slightly worse because the punchline isn't being a pervert the punchline is being gay.

[LordVincent]

Self lubricating butt-holes are not a thing. It's actually really gross when I read a line commenting on how wet their butt is because they're 'obviously ready for the smex'

Instead if getting me interested in the scene it just makes me horrified because no... if your butt-hole is all hot bothered and wet you should probably not engage in sexual activities because you have mad diarrhea and you're about to turn this situation into a nightmarish mess.

HAHA I run into this problem too, every damn time I read a comic where they say "wow you are already so wet down here" (unless they say it after adding lube or something) I just go "WOW EW NO ESCAPE THAT BOOTY" because the only wetness I can imagine is either shit, or worse, BLOOD

Which I wish this didn't need to be said but BLOOD IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE SUBSTITUTE FOR LUBE AND IF YOUR PARTNER'S ASS IS BLEEDING THAT MEANS YOU SHOULD HAVE STOPPED LONG AGO

[ISNEKO]

Just thought I'd poke my head in here and saw "self-lubricating buttholes" and now I have spent all my laughter for the day.

[violin]

Instead if getting me interested in the scene it just makes me horrified because no... if your butt-hole is all hot bothered and wet you should probably not engage in sexual activities because you have mad diarrhea and you're about to turn this situation into a nightmarish mess.

/facepalm I don't read much BL myself but uh... self-lubricating buttholes is something that has never occurred to me as might be a thing and uh. EW. LOL. WTF?!?!?!?!!

[yozhikisblue]

My god. D:

Unintentionally evoking diarrhea is something I've seen come to think of it- I think I erased this from my mind for the sake of my own sanity. Pretty sure this is a case of the creator accidentally revealing their own lack of sexual experience. I used to work at a sexual education centre and weird misconceptions about anal sex were sadly common there too. Like- there is some natural lubrication- but not something you want to rely on exculsively. Down that path lies serious cause for injury- and if it's brutally painful- unless you're really into S/M and know what you're doing- stop? Foreplay is good for everyone! Also- STDs are a thing and it would be nice to see that referenced as a real concern for characters now and again?

[jurinova]

Oh lord, I'm glad I've missed these magical self-lubricating butts! But that just reminds me of how often I've seen comics using spit as lube. Nope nope nope.

[seru]

Since the origin of BL/Yaoi are mainly from straight women, they depict the "ukes" or bottoms as females. (Someone already mentioned the self lubricating assholes so I'm not going to mention than again XD)

In reality, bottoms need more preparation than females before sex. "Spontaneous" sex happens in real life but not quite a lot.

Despite my story's shortcomings and falling in your typical Yaoi/BL trope, a lot of people appreciate that I included douching in the story: