LGBTQ folks, what frustrates you about BL/GL and what would you like to see more of?

Not just on BL, but any sort of romance, if I was to name the one thing that I can't stand is lack of consent. Your partner/romantic interest is drunk? Sleeping? Drugged/high? In any situation where they have no way of consenting? Then don't do anything, it's wrong and a crime! I can't wrap my head around how some people might think it's okay to force someone you love. Love wouldn't allow you to hurt your loved ones, so what you have can't be and is not love.

It's seriously disturbing for me to see or read it, even if it's in adult movies with actors pretending. Rape is never okay.
So by association I'm not a big fan of forced marriages and this sort of thing.

(Also I'm not sure I fit the LGBTQ criteria, 'cuz I'm demi and there is no D among those initials; but I'm not sure I fit the non-LGBTQ people either as most straight people don't get why must I have feelings for someone to want to kiss and have sex with them instead of just doing it if the other person is hot, I'm kind of a pariah who reads a lot of BL/GL and wanted to answer lol)

There are several GL comics that portray LGBTQ relationships really well and the way they do it is something I'd like to see more of. To me, these comics are 'realistic' (even if they're fantasy) when it comes to LGBTQ representation:

Sundaze is a great example of how to do it 'right' to me:

Wendy Lian Martin has a couple of series that feature LGBTQ characters in a way that's relatable and very sweet:

For non-fantasy, The Unfitting Puzzle Piece is a much more raw-emotional look at the hardships facing the LGBTQ community in general when it comes to a variety of relationships and how our past shapes them:

The one main thing that bothers me when it comes to a lot of yaoi is this extremely stubborn attitude about top vs bottom (or rather, gender roles shoved into gay relationships).

While it is true that some people prefer to be top or bottom entirely, it would be entirely untrue to assume that all do or that it's even the general trend. Having a couple that goes into these roles naturally by their own preference is fine in my mind, but the whole ordeal where the more masculine one basically forces the smaller person to be bottom is overdone, boring, unrealistic and unhealthy. At least most of the time I see it done.

Don't get me wrong, having stories where this happens would be fine since almost anything is fine in fiction, if it weren't for that it's so common that it's messing with people's understanding of gay relationships (and any other relationship as well).

I tend to write vers couples and I cannot even begin to count all the times I've had confused young readers shouting about "WAIT WHO IS THE BOTTOM I DON'T GET IT?!?! EARLIER HE TOPPED BUT NOW IT'S OPPOSITE I DON'T UNDERSTAND SOMEONE HELP" in the comments.

This isn't even only hurtful to gay people. It's not a gay issue. It's a sexism issue. Because of this perceived "must-be" dynamic, tons of straight men don't dare to let their partners take lead in the bedroom,and let's not even mention playing with the prostate, out of fear of being seen as gay or weak. On the other hand, tons of straight women have their sexuality emotionally restricted. It affects lesbians too, lesbians keep being asked who's "the man in the relationship". It's just bad for everyone.

I am SO TIRED of reading about strong tops and submissive bottoms. Like, what the fuck is that even all about? I really hate that dynamic of one character having power over another one and have it be... romantic. IT'S NOT! If I worked somewhere and some guy would always hound me and intimidate me because he "liked" me I am sending his ass to HR IMMEDIATELY. I find that most of these stories come from straight girls and I just want to reach through the screen and slap them, life doesn't work that way!

I just WISH people would do more research on the community they wanna write about if they don't belong in it, otherwise I feel like we are being objectified for profit and it's gross. Gay relationships have complicated dynamics since they fall out of the zeitgeist of male-female conventional dynamics. I guess, what I'm trying to say is, as a person who belongs to the LGBTQ+ community, I hate BL... You can have a romance and involve two people of the same gender but once you start you put it in those categories I already know what to expect. A lot of the really good same-gender comics I read started promoting themselves as BL and then dropped that once they had a big enough following because they really aren't BL, they're romances with two men, very different.

Here are some of my frustrations as a gay person:
1) There are barely any GL stories that focus on ONLY a girl x girl relationship. Sure they sometimes appear in some BL or LGBT+ stories as "the cute side lesbian couple" but that's about it. Of course there are some great wlw stories on Tap that I was lucky enough to find, but I gotta dig through 90% of all the BL comics to find one.

2) I've said this before, but when people create comics with LGBT characters with no personality other than "gay" or "bi"

3) Seme uke stuff that looks like (or is) pedophilia

4) Bad portrayal of gay relationships. What can I say? Straaaaaaaaaight girls who REALLY want to see some of that hot guy-on-guy action. Calm DOWN. You know what gay couples do in real life? They get to know each other. They talk like regular people. They sit down and watch episodes of The Great British Baking Show together and laugh at each other's jokes. And most of the time, they share common interests. And they are not always extremely handsome.

5) More realistic portrayal of wlw relationships !

What I hate about bl sometimes, is that I can't find the right ones,
George and Johnny,

I'm a gay trans man and to be honest I read a lot less BL and Yaoi than I used to. I'm honestly mostly just bored with the majority of stuff out there?

People have already mentioned the issues with the weird heteronormative aspects and the consent issues when it comes to sexual content. I'm personally concerned about how common controlling and abusive behaviors outside the bedroom are framed as being romantic. Not just in BL but in romance in general, it worries me because a lot of the people reading these kinds of stories are young and still learning how to navigate romantic relationships.

It honestly makes me pretty concerned about an aspect of my own comic. It's not BL but it is LGBTQ+. One of the characters is basically a walking red flag, but he's conventionally attractive and I'm worried people will interpret his grooming and boundary pushing behaviors as romantic.

My other sort of personal pet peeve is how samey the body types are. Like how many BL stories are thin fair skinned guy with dark hair X thin fair skinned guy with light hair? Some of it is just my taste in men leans more bearish the older I get, but I also just wish there was more variety? I wish there was more of a market for more variety.

I think Dragon Husband is a good example of things that work on a LGBTQ romance.

And a few others that develop well IMO:

Tapas is a better place to find BL/GL sometimes, since the creators themselves are more diverse than with manga.

When there is 10% plot line and 90% just sex. And UNREALISTIC sex.

I can't help but be wary of stories that market themselves as BL or GL for many of the reasons listed above. These genres often leave me feeling fetishized by someone outside the LGBTQ community who seems to have bizarre misconceptions about the kind of relationships people like me have. At the same time- I've seen straight, cisgender people write phenomenal stories starring LGBTQ characters, so when I see tired stereotypes recycled over and over again, I can't help but feel it's just sheer laziness. Universalized dom/sub dynamics based in feminine or masculine appearances, lack of consent, continued insistence by protagonists that "I'm not gay and gay people (especially gay men) are gross!" despite being attracted to the same gender, compulsory monogamy and all characters always being cisgender (because of course?)- the list goes on. Surely we could all get past this if we wrote characters as people first, and tried to get into their heads as though they were all real people? But maybe I'm just being optimistic here x') P.S. At the risk of tmi, I'm a a bisexual and rather androgynous transgender man in a longstanding committed open relationship with a cisgender man, so for reference, that's the perspective I'm coming from.

Haha I think I might be the only gay bud in here who likes stories that have a lot of sexual intimacy in them. I find it beautiful and romantic if done right. But I have a very sex positive and openminded attitude about it in general so I guess I see it differently.

A lot of good points are made here and I agree with most of them. Sometimes you can just smell the stereotypical writing based on straight stereotypes from afar. Both BL and GL seem to have these ridiculous hetero ideas where one must be feminine and one must be masculine. It's so frustrating and insulting. Not to mention how often the stereotype of pushy, predatory gays is used. Ugh.

I'm also all for the occassional sex scene but so often it seem to be done to titillate the straight audience and it lacks genuine emotion or any sense of reality. I think it could just be that they're getting all their information from yaoi and yuri, which is... not good. It's so rare to see a comic where people laugh or have fun during sex. Or just even communicate normally. Or like, have safe sex.

In BL I think it's terrible how often all women are assholes, especially if it's an ex-girlfriend. Also no one is ever bisexual, even if they've had several girlfriends before. Bisexuality seems like a curse word in the land of BL.

I enjoy a story where the characters are more than their sexuality or gender. Romance is great, but I like to read about more than just that. If all the struggles in the plot revolve only around the romance it's boring. Characters need a life outside of their special other, and this applies to hetero romances too.

i think id like there to be more ~ugliness and gender non conformity. a lot of GL and mainstream f/f media focuses on gender conforming fems, and theres little to be seen of butches or lesbian/wlw culture. i think its a shame, bc we have a really rich culture

A lot of stuff has already been mentioned, but I'll add this awkward one I constantly seem to run into.

Impossible sex that is impossible only for the fact that rolls are gendered. I mean to say when the sex is just straight sex but with a bl cover.

Self lubricating butt-holes are not a thing. It's actually really gross when I read a line commenting on how wet their butt is because they're 'obviously ready for the smex'

Instead if getting me interested in the scene it just makes me horrified because no... if your butt-hole is all hot bothered and wet you should probably not engage in sexual activities because you have mad diarrhea and you're about to turn this situation into a nightmarish mess.

Another not so awkward one. The "I'm not gay but we gotta SIN and have sex if we want to survive."

Another one is casually molestation or as a cute funny hahah 'see you can tell he's GAY' joke. It's not fking cute. It like the "perverted character but it's FUNNY trope" but slightly worse because the punchline isn't being a pervert the punchline is being gay.