"Looking to hire artist for my manga!" - DISCUSSION

[GFalconDX]

It's sad to see stuff like that on Deviantart, but at the same time, I'm not really surprised. I think I read something similar to something like this on Clients From Hell.

[serenitysquirrel]

And this is why most decent artists ignore these type of writers

Explain them that as an artist, you need paid. They can get exposure insetad of $ for their writing, right?

[69Michi]

Maybe it's just my conditioning from years of scavenging through DA like some kind of animal, but any time I see those "commission template" things, I throw up in my mouth

Ergh, why? It's a thing people who work in the field of commission do so the buyer can get a sense of how much they are paying for the type of art they want. (Not only artist have these template though, even programmer on DA LOL) I rather seeing a commission journal with price already laid down than ??? price, I noted the person and they gave me a price beyond my wallet :/

[UzukiCheverie]

Ergh, why? It's a thing people who work in the field of commission do so the buyer can get a sense of how much they are paying for the type of art they want. (Not only artist have these template though, even programmer on DA LOL) I rather seeing a commission journal with price already laid down than ??? price, I noted the person and they gave me a price beyond my wallet

Like I said, I think it's just because of the time I spent on DA and saw them everywhere. I get that they're handy as a template, especially for people starting out - they're not necessarily a bad thing, I just don't like them lol Also I find artists tend to under-sell themselves a LOT through these (even when their art is gorgeous and they should be getting more than $30 for a full color fullbody; they also sometimes do those INFERNAL DA POINTS) and that further conditions clients down the road to believe that artists should be obligated to sell themselves short at the client's whim (and for delusional things like exposure/gratitude/etc.) and comes back full circle with those horrifying clients that demand low prices, "threaten" to go to other artists that will do it for them for free, and claim that their work is the best thing since sliced bread so you'll make all the money when they become rich and famous.

It's just one of those things I've been conditioned to despise u o u""" (but again, doesn't make it a bad thing, some people do it really well)

[69Michi]

Aye, yeah I tend to see a lot of artist underprice themselves a lot! But usually it's those artists that just started out in the commission world without any established client base so they kind of have to resort to underprice themselves to build up a fanbase just yet. I used to sell commission for gross DA points but now my price is way higher than that. It's nice that nowadays you can exchange DA Points into real money (by using widget when clients send payment, not by direct exchange, suck)

demand low prices, "threaten" to go to other artists that will do it for them for free, and claim that their work is the best thing since sliced bread so you'll make all the money when they become rich and famous.

I HATE THESE KIND OF PEOPLE TOO ITS OKAY tho I never ran across one so that is fortunate. TBH I don't open commission work as much anymore and prefer doing adoptable selling my design just because I don't like dealing with people's attitude and demand sometimes T_T

[JessJackdaw]

Jeez, certainly glad this post was fake... I was cringing so hard inside. D:

@69Erocento I think I polietly disagree with your stance on posted prices like the $30 full body with background. I think this actually causes a lot more toxicity and price gouging than people think. Think about it. You inquire that the artist do a piece with your character on a background... but really how complex is that character, and what kind of background are we talking about? You go back on the customer saying that what he/she described is too complex for the price-point and they strike you down with false advertising.

Honestly, price quotes are where it's at. I've experienced little to no toxic clients this way, because I just have them describe the thing, and I hit them back with a breakdown of hours and cost. If that's not the price they wanted, then they can just take that description they made elsewhere, no harm done. If this happens, I try not to make the inquiries embarrassed that they can't afford the quote, but rather maybe encourage them to tone back what they were asking for to fit their budget.

Then again, I don't do commissions through DA or Tumblr, so I don't know if that could make a huge difference in the clients you're dealing with. D:

[69Michi]

Certainly agree with you on the whole false advertisement thing but it's why most artists often includes "depend on complexity". The prices in the template is not a fixed price but more or less a reference, a guide for people to have an idea of how much they are going to need to get a certain type of art from an artist. Sure price quotes is a way to go, but at the same time it can potentially create inconvenience for buyer like me. An example could be I wanted to commission this popular artist, they said send them note to ask, but because they are a busy individual they take approximately 3 or 4 days to reply back with the prices. In that 3-4 days I could have accidentally bought something and by the time I got the price quote, I no longer have enough budget to afford it

On a side note, in my own opinion and experience, having price template is just another thing for people to stop sending note asking you "how much is ____ and ____" (and most of them won't even be commissioning you after you reply with a price quote) the amount of note you can get over these matter can get ridiculous to keep on having to reply to being a DA artists T v T

[JessJackdaw]

Ahh, I guess I'm a more brash buyer than I realize, because it doesn't bother me to just ask. If something happens like you described, for example I have to make a car repair payment I wasn't expecting and don't have a lot of spare cash, usually I just am honest with the artist and say, "Hey sorry. Had problems with my car, and I don't have enough spending money to afford your art right now. I'd still like to get a commission from you in the future though! Hope we can stay in touch!" That sort of thing. Artists are people, and usually they'll understand your situation.

I suppose it depends where you advertise too, but to maybe deal with spam, you could close commissions until you've finished the ones you've got. Of course, you can always keep having example prices, I'm not stopping you. Whatever works best for your commissions.

[69Michi]

Tbh I took that example straight from many people I know that exist on DA including my friends LMFAO They are some real impulsive buyer that can jump on stuff to buy without even thinking about how they should be using that money to pay for their commissioned artist. (and it's not even some important stuff like car or rent) Hence it could be hard to explain to an artist why they no longer have the money on hand.

I think I just find it's good to have price template because throughout the years, a lot of my customer wanted that from me. Also it's not so much of spamming, but borderlining more on the "question" T_T And they will do it whether your commission is open or close.

No worry no worry, it's good to hear other people's opinion about this matter too!

[Zpreader]

B-b-but what if me and this random teenage kid from DA end up creating the next One Punch Man and have all the hottest mangakas in Japan fighting each other over who gets to redraw it as a serialized manga complete with a mandatory anime that all the weebs and otakus won't stop talking about next season?

I can't believe this! I knew I screenshot this for a reason! Thank you SO MUCH for giving me the opportunity to finally use it

We used to have this conversation all the time on Inkblazers.

Never forget

[69Michi]

That is the best troll scenario I ever read, a delight to my tired from a whole day at work brain.
Thank you so much for sharing

[Delphonse]

I don't know if I will be attacked on this forum. O.o i feel this is has a tinge of writer hate here. But I understand the dislike for writers looking for free work and expecting great artists to do their stuff for free. That is something that always got under my skin. The current series I am working on is a join effort between House of Imagi a team that draws stuff for people and me a new writer trying hard to go professional. I pay my art team for every single piece of art they finish for me. We worked out an original contract in the begining but they were working too hard and not meeting deadlines. Instead of getting mad at them and telling them they need to work harder. I understood that art takes time and I.would rather have quality that quantity. I lowered the weekly page count but kept the weekly pay the same. We have worked out the contract multiple times and I always make sure it is in their favor since they draw so much. We have worked together for about 4 months now and no one has any complaints. I spend 90$ a week and they get done at this point in time 2-3 storyboards. I could not ask for a better team honestly.

But I do have to wonder sometimes when I go on forums and see these articles. Every time I see this I get a little sad. Writers who look for artists should pay the artist for their time. But what about artists looking for writers? Should the artist pay the writer to create content for him or should be demand the writer payment for his art? I feel it is one sided. While I agree art takes way longer than writing. I can usually pop out a roughdraft for a chapter in about 6 hours. I still wonder why the writer has to always spend all his money in hopes that something will come to fruition.

I will say it again though I do not condone the use of using writers/artists to further your own career. If you want to work something out with an artists both members need to understand that you both may act like a team but if its not paid for do not expect a lot from either side.

I pay my artist because I expect some level of commitment. I work with volunteers on the side for other projects and when I do I work on their schedule. I do not demand art from a volunteer

Sorry if this is long or taken the wrong way I just wanna know peoples opinions on the reverse side as well since all I ever see is writers being taken as either cheapskates or buttheads and more often than not writers are never taken serious T.T I love it when an artist complements my writing I always get nervous thinking that my writing is horrible and that no one will aprriciate it.

[Zpreader]

That's a fair point. Can't say I've considered this too much myself to be honest, but I definitely agree that some compensation should be in order depending on who initiates the contract be it writer or artist, and broadly writers certainly deserve more credit than a thread like this may suggest.

That being said, I could definitely see cost of entry being a reason for why this isn't considered too much. As a writer, its possible to make due with a decent computer and a basic word processor. Now don't get me wrong, that's not to say that you will do that. Better word processors (including some specifically made for story writing and outlining) and purchased research material can add quite a bit to the cost. But for an artist hoping to perform at a professional level, the starting prices can be pretty steep regardless of whether you work analog or digital. Tablets and software are a one time purchase (if you're lucky), but can be anywhere from a bit expensive to absolutely wallet slaying, and you have to have a processor that can handle the stress that they entail. And while most physical art tools are quite cheap (I'm looking at you, Copics), they don't last forever, and that price can build up rather quickly.

[heterodont]

You definitely have a point! While writers are required to give some sort of (monetary, usually) compensation to artists, you never really see an artist state anything like "willing to pay writer for a story"! Not to say it doesn't take any effort to write a story, because I can barely break 12 pages with just the script of my stories - I couldn't imagine writing a full length novel or anything - but I feel like it's not really that certain artists have a Story in mind but they don't have the writing chops to flesh it out? Many times people, no matter how strong or weak they are in writing, still manage to type something out that they can use as a vague script.

Often times the artists you see searching for collaborations on the forum are looking for people who already have a story written out - not that they're looking for a writer to say, write their dialogue or chapters out. They're looking for people who already have written what they want to happen out, people who already know where their story is going and how to write it. From the topics I've seen, no one is really looking for someone to proof-read their chapters or their dialogue to make sure everything makes sense and is clear. Most writers want artists for a service (which is, visual interpretation of their writing) but usually, artists want writers for their projects.

[Delphonse]

That is true and I by no means condone using artists or putting either down. In fact the more I think about it the more upset I get lol I really hate good artists putting themself down and thinking they arent worth it. I am spending 90$ minimum every week and I ak working so hard to improve my writing. I want to be able to complement my artists. Our main focus is to become professional I believe my storywriting is not the greatest but I do hold pride in my work and in the time I spent learning what I need to. Right now we are working hard to get noticed by webtoons. We have a long way but I know that once we do about 3/4ths of the monetary gain would go to my artists. So I can pay them what they are worth. Sorry I get ranty on this subject I want artists to get paid their fair share and I am willing to put risk in my project cause I believe it will succeed given time ^.^

[Delphonse]

I do see that often artists looking for a writer who has most of their stuff finished. I have my series almost completely fleshed out and the first 29 chapters written and edited multiple times. That took me over a year and half with the assistance of friends. I have 3 other short series that I have just in the early stages of fleshing out. Hoping to make them only at most 20 chapters each. My main series is a long running one that will take a long time to finish. I should have done smaller ones to begin with but that is my bad. Learn from experiance. Right now I am testing out different genras to expand my skill. I have a romance slice of life a horror mystery and a shonen action series all in the process of being fleshed out. It takes a lot of time and effort to make each but the monetary cost to make these for me is litterally nothing. For an artist like my fiance its drawing books and art supplies on a monthly basis and just now a drawing tablet which we got a decent one not cyntaq but monoprice which we looked around for and had an art friend give us advice. That was 300$. Being an artist is expensive and if you are trying to go professional the cost only increases. The majority of writers who want their "Pasionate project" to succeed usually have no idea what they are doing and when I first started I was in their shoes until I realized the situation most artists are in. I quickly changed my plan of action and switched to paying for assistance. Sorry this is ranty and kind of off subject I think.

[heterodont]

Nah its fine! It's great that you're trying to develop your writing skills by trying out different genres - not to mention that you're cooperating with your artists to make sure you're not overworking them as well ^^! I'd say you're one of the few writers who acknowledge how much work goes into art, unlike the people who say their stories are going to explode overseas/online and that they'll provide compensation when that happens...

[Zpreader]

This is a topic well worth the rant. No need to be sorry

[isaacfriedman]

This is only tangentially related, but is it reasonable to charge only $5 for a really small black and white drawing of one character with no background?

[UzukiCheverie]

It depends. If I did a full lineart fullbody of a character, no background, I'd definitely charge more than $5 (they're buying a custom piece of art, not a coffee and donut) but you'd have to specify what "really small" means. And even then, that's just me. Different artists are comfortable with different rates, especially depending on their delivery time/resources needed/etc.