Patreon news! Charge upfront coming soon! What do you think?

[carloswebcomic]

Hey guys, I've just received a newsletter from Patreon.
One very interesting bit of news is that they are looking to implement a charge upfront feature.
I'm sure that all of us in Patreon have experienced the end of the month exodus effect where people leave before they are charged. With this new feature, you can charge upfront before the content is available.

I'm not sure how to feel about this.
Although I definitely see this as a tool to stop people trying to get freebies, most of my patrons are genuinely supportive and come good with their pledges.

Would this show a lack of trust in new patrons if I were to use this feature and potentially turn people off?
On the other hand, not many places will give you a product on the promise you'll pay, with little to no consequence if you don't pay.

What do you guys think?

[VermillionWorks]

Hmmm, I'm wondering if this wouldn't be better if it were more customizable...like having people being charged up front but only for the higher tiers that may involve things like products or commissions? Maybe that'd be too hard for them to do...

But instead it seems to be for the whole thing (and the change is permanent if you choose that, so heads up guys!). I can understand why some would prefer this I suppose, especially if they're getting loads of dropouts...I might even consider turning that on if I get a ton of people doing that to me. Already have it happen occasionally.

I don't think it would come off as distrustful, especially if it's explained it's due to people trying to get freebies? I guess I don't know for certain though...

[scythe]

I think it's probably what needs to happen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as it stands, you could pledge $1000 at the start of the month, then cancel before it gets taken out. People are budgeting their lives based on their Patreon pledges, so it must suck to see some of that evaporate when it comes time to pay.

Will be interesting to see how it's received.

[joannekwan]

Gaaah, they should have just started with this...

But now I've gotten used to the old system and have adapted to it, where I won't post the really juicy stuff (like future scripts for my series) until pledges have been processed and the money's in my paypal.

[Luminosophy]

I'm very new to patreon and only just started using it. But I do believe if you want to avoid the theft exodus - it may be better to only offer content that cant physically be stolen. Or if that's unfeasible, it may be worth the feature but you could talk to your patrons about it before hand and ask for their thoughts. I think communication should always be made before implementing changes to the system they're used to - and waiting for feedback before making them.

[awesomenwin]

I'm a Patron for a couple of things and I don't mind being charged upfront.

If you do the right thing, and are in it to actually contribute, you shouldn't have an issue with actually following through on your commitment I think.

But that's just my sentiments on it as a PAYING Patron.

[joca]

I'm one of the creators who actually already has Charge Upfront implemented! And I absolutely love it. I make my content mainly available on my creator wall so you can get the content through the app. And patrons not being charged right away was a problem for me. Because I had uploaded a Patreon exclusive comic, for a $5 tier one month, people would pledge, read the update and then cancel their pledge immediately. I lost about $40-50 because of it.

The only difference is safety from people who take your content and leave before they pay. After their first payment, payments always go through the first of the month. I definitely love the feature, and creators also have the choice of whether to turn the function on or not. But after you turn it on, there's no going back.

I think patrons not being charged upfront was the biggest drawback to patreon, so I'm very happy that they made a solution.

[carloswebcomic]

Because I had uploaded a Patreon exclusive comic, for a $5 tier one month, people would pledge, read the update and then cancel their pledge immediately. I lost about $40-50 because of it.

All my content is available for the $1 minimum, so when I see people pulling out the last minute I'm all like "Really? For a dollar?". Thankfully, the vast majority of my patrons are honest enough to put the money where they pledge it.

I think it's probably what needs to happen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as it stands, you could pledge $1000 at the start of the month, then cancel before it gets taken out.

Yeah, that's how it works. So basically you're giving them access on a promise.
The vast majority of people are honest, but as always, it gets ruined by a few bad apples.

I'm a Patron for a couple of things and I don't mind being charged upfront.

If you do the right thing, and are in it to actually contribute, you shouldn't have an issue with actually following through on your commitment I think.

Good to know!
I guess in real life you always give the money before receiving the product.

Gaaah, they should have just started with this...

But now I've gotten used to the old system and have adapted to it, where I won't post the really juicy stuff (like future scripts for my series) until pledges have been processed and the money's in my paypal.

I know, right?
I thought about doing the same but I already have people who have been supporting my work for a long time and I couldn't make them wait because of the lack of honesty of a few individuals. At least now we have a better option!

[shazzbaa]

But now I've gotten used to the old system and have adapted to it, where I won't post the really juicy stuff (like future scripts for my series) until pledges have been processed and the money's in my paypal.

Yeah, this kinda thing makes me feel like it doesn't have to be "I'm charging people up front now b/c I'm afraid someone's going to be dishonest," it could also be presented as "this enables me to make everything available immediately without waiting for pledges!"
My highest tier operates as "go ahead and make requests, and I'll start drawing after the cards are charged on the first of the month!" so switching to a charge upfront system wouldn't mean "you're not trustworthy," it would mean "you don't have to wait a month for requests!!"

As for me personally, I'm probably gonna be slow about it just because I'm a late adopter for everything, but it's definitely tempting. I'd be nervous it'd slow my patreon's growth, since it makes pledging feel more like a PURCHASE -- and my personal distaste for comics-wrapped-in-plastic-so-you-can't-see-before-you-buy is half the reason I make webcomics -- but it would also enable me to pitch it with "once you pledge you get to read ALL of the past content!" without being nervous that I'm calling attention to an exploit.

so tbh I'll have to take some time to consider it!

[AnnaLandin]

I think it's good!

I've never had an issue with baiting (i.e: people signing up, getting the things, and then cancelling their pledge before payment), but I know a lot of other people have, so a first-time charge upfront is a good idea, IMHO.

Although I definitely see this as a tool to stop people trying to get freebies, most of my patrons are genuinely supportive and come good with their pledges.

The thing about those genuinely supporting patrons is that they like giving you their money for your stuff, and the upfront charge would be for new supporters - new supporters who, hopefully, are genuine. And most Patreon-campaigns are structured in such a way that a lot of the content they get access to - like early pages, or sketchposts - are right there on the site, so signing up gets them instant access.

Really, it just means they pay you right away for something they're getting from you. It's not like you go to the grocery store and get a big bag of groceries without paying, take them home and eat them all, and then tell the storeowner you don't feel like paying for it.

I offer a bunch of PDFs for download for the higher tiers, and to avoid the cancellation issue, when a new patron on those higher tiers signs up, I always delay sending those links out until after they've been charged - which means they sometimes have to wait nearly a month to get them. If they were charged upfront instead, they'd get access immediately, which would make everyone happier.

[donathinfrye]

I haven't had this issue with my patrons yet, but I think it makes sense to have the option to charge up front. I might not rush to adopt it, but if I were to notice people stealing some updates (I also release exclusive content to patrons-only for one of my comics), then I'd probably flip the switch on upfront charging.

For Patreon, this is was a super requested feature (I'm sure it's a big issue with massively popular patreon campaigns that are bringing in thousands of dollars a month), so it's good that they developed an answer for it.

Next? I'd love for them to develop a curation system that isn't entirely arbitrary, and an internal search engine and navigation system that actually lets you find peoples' campaigns. The most frustrating thing about Patreon, for me, is that nobody who is just digging through Patreon is ever going to run into my work. Kickstarter is faaaar superior in that regard.

[Aspie_Gamer]

Great new feature for Patreon as a whole. Should cut down on all the trolling assholes who pledge x amount of money only to pull out at the last minute before their payment method be a card or a paypal account is charged.

[ahkwardkat]

I am not sure how I feel about it, I had it based on a "per page system" so that my patrons only got charged when I got something posted. With my three jobs, it was hard to be 100% consistent. It'll be harder to deal with this change if they take away that option. ono

[joca]

I am not sure how I feel about it, I had it based on a "per page system" so that my patrons only got charged when I got something posted. With my three jobs, it was hard to be 100% consistent. It'll be harder to deal with this change if they take away that option. ono

I'm pretty sure they're leaving that.. it's more so for the creators that do the monthly system I believe? since if you're a brand new patron, if you start supporting lets say june 3, you get a full month of content, and then if you leave before you're charged, then you essentially steal it. With the charge upfront feature that issue is solved.