Political topics in comics/novels?

[Progg]

So, basically, how do you feel about political commentary in fiction? Is it something that can contribute to a story, and if so, how should it be done? I've made some feeble attempts to work a little political commentary into my comic, but I don't really know how to go about it.
How do you think politics can be woven into the tale without being on the nose, or in the way of the story? Should it sometimes be avoided altogether, and if so, when? Any good/bad examples?

Note: This topic is not for discussing political issues, except as examples of how politics are treated in fiction.

[Oksa]

I think I have the same question since my comic contains some political topics. this might sound weird, but usually I get bored really easily when stories involve these kind of things. But at the same time I enjoy some of them if they do have it, and I'm using them myself.

The difference between liking the topic and getting bored because of it is how do you use it in the story. I mean, if there is a lot of scenes where characters discuss about political stuff and like that, it might get really boring to me, really fast. But if the topic is also shown in action, it's more exiting. not that there can't be any scenes where it's discussed, but more like, using it in many ways. also it's only my opinion, but I'd avoid using the topic in a scene which is supposed to make the atmosphere a bit more relaxed, less serious or something like that. When there's a funny scene, it doesn't need any serious topics in it. Not that political jokes are bad or anything...
This was my first real opinion in this forum, so bare with me :'D I have hard time explaining myself with different language than I usually use, sorry if you did not get anything I said XD

[Progg]

I think you're right - a scene where characters discuss politics, that doesn't really relate to the story, tends to be boring. And political jokes are probably not the best for comic relief. (And your reasoning was well-worded and easy to follow! )

[LittleMissDevil]

I think it all comes down to the implementation. Story and characters always should come first. If you then can add political themes without being to on the nose, it can work. Because the reader comes for the story and the characters the politics - as long as they don't dominate the comic - shouldn't bother him that much, I think. You can also wave the politics into the story much easier, if it is woven into the world well.

A good example is Avatar the last Airbender, I think. You have strong environmental messages, talking about propaganda, imperialism, nature vs. industrialism and all kinds of stuff like that. But the focus is always on the characters, the story and the comedy, so it really holds up super well even if you take out the political themes. The Legend of Korra then started to focus much more heavily on their political messages and it really doesn't work as well. There are a lot of issues with the show, but I think it really wasn't a smart move to take the focus away fro the main characters and put it on the villains to be more political. But that's just one example that came to mind.

That being said overtly political comic also can work very well, if you have a good or interesting message. Just look at V for Vendetta or Watchmen to name the most famous ones. Those deal with politics head on in their story.

I myself have a very political comic and often wonder, if it's too political. I originally just wanted to tell a story about my characters, but it turns out this story has a lot of difficult topics. Racism, extremism, rebellion, oppressive governments, terrorism, fun stuff like that I personally try to always keep the focus on how these circumstances effect my characters and how the world they inhabit forms them, so the story stays on a personal level. The story is not primarily about how shitty the system is, but about the life of my main cast in this shitty system. Seems to work so far, as my readers usually comment on the character dynamics. But I am still super insecure about this whole thing. ^^

[punkarsenic]

social commentary is integral to art - not all art is social commentary, but theres always been political art.

in comics specifically, there has been a lot of politics - the x men are the best example, but captain america was a political statement in his time as well. jack kirby was a very political man.

i think the rule 'show dont tell' still applies to politics in media - in storytelling, its the difference between a story and propaganda.id far prefer a story to explore an argument for and against and ask questions for the audience to answer - while nudging them one way a little - than the moral being just 'x is bad.'

For good examples... Cleverman (australian tv) does the fantastic racism trope really well, i often like ms marvel's approach to things (some ppl think its preachy, but to me its clear the target audience for the comic skews younger, and towards people interested in those issues. not sure how i feel abt a lot of other marvel stuff though), black panther (film and ta-nehisi coates' comic), the handmaids tale (again, book and tv series. fuck the film)

for bad examples: the film crash, 13 reasons why, bright, id also say harry potter (and all extended universe iterations) is a pretty bad example, being lazy, half-arsed, and often carrying seriously racist subtext despite the anti racist text

ill also say, because no media exists in a vacuum, all media can be read through a political lens. the bee movie? its pro slavery and pro capitalism. the incredibles? totally randian propaganda. i mean, not really, thats far from the authors intent, but they can be read that way. racial theory, feminist theory, queer theory, marxist theory... you can apply these things to any piece of work. your biases always wheedle their way into the subtext.

[indagold]

Politics in a story can make or break it and a lot of times it breaks it. I think a lot of people don't understand how to world build and somehow work commentary into it let alone even putting themselves in other characters shoes to avoid straw manning. You gotta separate your views from your work at some point and understand what you're making has to stand on its own even if it shares some of your opinions

I think you gotta look at a story and realize how this fits into their universe rather than just turn it into a political cartoon. Make it work for the story and approach it very subtely. Don't start in with characters just immediately slamming discourse right and left like a debate. Have the world fit into it, the plot and character's motivation: maybe one character loves this character but they have very wildly different beliefs and its hurting their relationship and paint both characters with valid reasons why they feel that way then just making it one sided "i'm right, you're wrong". A lot of it is just figuring out what works in a realistic setting.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

I think politics, like any theme in a story, works best when it looks effortless. You shouldn't add it on top of a story that didn't really have much to do with politics to begin with; it should grow organically from characters whose lives already have political context.

Maybe your character is a politician, or a crime lord who has politicians in his pocket. Maybe they're a rebel trying to overthrow the current government, or someone who lives in fear of it. Or, the old tried-and-true, maybe they're a member of an alien race that's been subjugated for centuries and has finally decided they're not gonna take it anymore.

The second thing to remember is to always create that context. There shouldn't be a "politics chapter" in your story, or one giant political monologue that covers everything. Politics is everywhere, so if it's important to your characters, you should work it into every aspect of their lives. Show, don't tell. Maybe they got shoved by a police officer when they were just on their way to work. Maybe a love interest refused to date them after hearing their last name. Maybe a relative made a catty remark about "the other race" in casual conversation. If a political monologue does happen, creating context for it ahead of time will make it feel more natural.

[Zhengo]

I think it boils down to if the political topics are a natural result of the plot and world building. Most attempts to insert political topics into a story fail because they don't make sense in the context of the characters, plot, and setting.

For an example, someone before me mentioned Legend of Korea and I also have to point out that in the comics, there's a part that addresses homophobia in different nations, but the implementation makes no sense in the world building. There's no context as to why homophobia would exist. It's not like there was a sacred text demonizing same sex relationships, and historically there were civilizations that were accepting of homosexuality where no such text exists.

Another thing is that usually the main character is used as a mouthpiece by the writer to voice their own political opinions, regardless of whether it is in character. It's especially glaring if the world is built to have opinions against the writer's view but the MC right from the get go is supportive of the writer's view despite being raised in a setting where he should have developed views against the writer. Maybe instead, have the character's political views change over time and such as a part of their character development. It's a shame that writers don't try to use character development more to discuss political topics.

Also on the world building, if one wants to make a setting that's used to address some political topic, actually make sure that the world can actually suspend disbelief without falling apart if you think about it for more than one second. Take the recent Detroit: Become Human. It's obviously addressing prejudice towards different groups of people, but alluding to real world instances of discrimination falls apart when you consider logistics and design of some things when you replace real discriminated people to androids. Example: why would androids only be allowed to stand in the back of the bus? Design-wise it’s not really an efficient use of space, and since they’re machines they should be able to do some weird tech stuff where they can fold into a more compact size.

Basically, make sure your politics make sense in the story, it should feel seamless, and not shoehorned in.

[sarrowsmith10]

Just like any plot device, political topics need to be relevant to your story. In my fantasy comic, politics are relevant because its a succession to the throne type of story, however I'm not really making a commentary on that political system because a commentary doesn't add anything to the story.

However in our Science Superhero comic VSEPR, the good guys are renewable energy lab techs working for a biofuel company while the villain owns an oil company. It very much is touching on something current in our political world and a topic that is relevant to me as a creator, as I work at an environmental engineering and tech lab.

So, if the political climate is important to your story, then keep it. If its not, it just comes across as preachy and irrelevant.

[shazzbaa]

In every story, your worldview will shine through. When the protagonist decides to show mercy to the evil guy, you as the author will decide if that was a naive mistake or a brave and powerful choice. When the protagonists are framed for a crime, you as the author will decide if they can work within the system to prove their innocence or if the system will only screw them over more. And what you believe about the world and about people will impact and inform those choices.

I think sometimes we call things "politics" that are inherently part of a person's story. A black creator writing about racism isn't "being political" necessarily -- he might just be writing about his own experiences. My experiences of struggling to find and keep friends and work out my feelings about that boy I kind of like won't be labelled political, but his experiences of the same darn thing are going to be seen as "political" because racism is a part of every piece of his life.

I also think this is super subjective. Media that you disagree with is going to feel much more "political" than media that matches your own worldview, as the casual assumptions the story makes clash with your view of how things work on a basic level. Something that feels "too political" to one group might feel like "a good story" to another. Which also means that the more overt you are, the narrower your audience -- a story about a frog falling in love with a toad when this is forbidden by frog law is gonna resonate with most folks on some level, but a story about a lady from a conservative household falling in love with another lady immediately cuts out anyone who's not on board with LGBT+ rights.
But sometimes like.... that's the point? The point is not to make your story something that literally everyone can agree with, the point is to communicate the thing you wanted to say, to explore the experience that you wanted to explore, and to share your feelings.

One of the reasons I love Jesus Christ Superstar more than any other passion story (despite it being less like... theologically consistent with the teachings of my faith than most other versions) is actually that it made the story political... and in doing so, made the whole story more human.

That said, I do think it's easy for stories with political themes to fall flat when they're about someone else's story, a story that's foreign to them. Like, writing an on-the-nose racism metaphor when you've never really run into racism is gonna feel off somehow. On the other hand, a story about the rise of fascism and the corruption of the youth sounds extremely preachy and political, but someone writing that story because of their own horror of watching their friends fall into an ideology that makes them different, less kind, more afraid -- that's going to be a very human story.

Politics are in everything, so it's only natural for some stories to have them -- and some stories will have A LOT of them -- but no matter what, if your story doesn't come from inside you, it's not going to ring true.

[lil-sea-salt]

I'm a bit confused here what you mean about political commentary. Are you referring to the politics discussed in a comic like an election, racism, privilege? Or do you mean commentary on news in the real world.

I think if politics is discussed as a vehicle moving the story forward its fine. I know not everyone is a fan of a star wars prequels, but I really enjoyed seeing the bad guy manipulate everyone. Also game of thrones does an excellent job of this. My favorite characters are Varys and Little Finger who always have something up their sleeves and it's interesting to see the planning and final result.

I think it was not well done in Hunger Games. I just got annoyed with the whole machine. I hated the politics as it just served to wipe the relationships clean. The plot didn't really make sense to 13-14 year old me.

[MissionFailure]

Politics are a tool for progressing the story plot or challenging/growing the characters. It can be done amazingly well and amazingly bad. I for one, enjoy novels with a heavy focus on politics, but dislike it when I get walls of text in a comic. He's some questions that you can ask:

Wants

1. Does Politics affect what does this character wants?(doesn't have to be moral)
2. Does Politics affect what does this character needs?(doing the moral thing)
3. Does Politics affect how those wants and needs conflict with(in) the character?

Conflict

1. How does politics interact with the characters wants/needs and the outside world?
2. Does politics affect the characters interactions with other characters?

Change

1. Does the politics affect change/growth in your character or do they stay unaffected?
2. Does this growth or lack of growth have an impact on the other characters?

If the majority of answers is No, I'd say you might want to leave it out of the story otherwise it's going to feel very hamfisted and it may turn off readers. I've back out and stopped reading several comics because they 180'd or hamfisted politics, and I have no intent on telling the author 'why' due to the risk of it coming across as a personal insult versus the legit criticism it is. That's just how touchy politics are, and it's a risk you take with your readers.

Some methods on including politics without Walls of text

1. Instead of having the viewer see the entire political exchange, have a character sum up the topics discussed in their POV to another character
2. Show the non-violent actions that take as a result of politics (IDs/paperwork, commerce taxes, more/less security, and so on)
3. If characters must discuss politics for conflict, don't have them go into the details, just to the major points they're decided on.
4. When in doubt, go watch a political anime and pause/study the points where politics are covered. FMA and Gundam are super politics heavy, yet manage to still have lots of action and keep viewers engaged. Seeing where they cut off discussions between episodes, how they don't go into the nitty-gritty of the politics, discussing it in short convos during fights, and sometimes use full on silence to allow viewers to see tension/thinking are good references for comics.

[lunaartemisasama]

I think it depends of the story and the context . Ask yourself Does the reader need to know everything? Is it essential to the story? How can I show it? things like that. And is up to you how much you want to show about it, in an intimate way or a more extended one.

[punkarsenic]

On the other hand, a story about the rise of fascism and the corruption of the youth sounds extremely preachy and political, but someone writing that story because of their own horror of watching their friends fall into an ideology that makes them different, less kind, more afraid -- that's going to be a very human story.

(emphasis mine)

this!

In the end, all stories are about human nature, and a great political story will dig down to the core humanity of a 'political' story so that it resonates with anyone. that's effective storytelling in general, and how to effective get a message across within storytelling.

[Jenny-Toons]

I feel you can make subtle political statements when you include controversial topics in the context of your work and focus on the results and interactions of those topics rather than preach about them.

For example, the series I'm working on deals with cult behavior in the US. If you've read about cults in America, you'll have seen the results of them and how people politically and socially interact with them (mostly negative).

The story itself is based on cosmic horror, but there is a political look because of cults and how people react to them.

It's all about the topic you use and how the characters interact with it.

[DiegoPalacios]

Make sure to not fall in the straw man fallacy:

"A straw man argument is one based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To 'set up a straw man' or 'set up a straw man argument' is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent."

This link has a definition and show examples of distorting the words of the oposing side.

Strawman Fallacy - TV Tropes

This link show the different kind of fallacies that rely in showing the other side as an exagerated version without adressing the current arguments.

The War on Straw - TV Tropes

[Progg]

I'm a bit confused here what you mean about political commentary. Are you referring to the politics discussed in a comic like an election, racism, privilege? Or do you mean commentary on news in the real world.

I guess I hadn't really thought about what I mean, but basically any content that is intended by the author to illustrate, comment on or make a statement about a political issue. What constitutes a political issue is obviously a long and complicated discussion, but the answers I'm seeing are very much relevant to what I had in mind. To me, all the things you mentioned count as political content.

[nelaukface]

I think politics affect the stories people write one way or another--as silly and migraine inducing it is, it is essentially a force of nature, and can quite literally affect the way we live.
but obviously you're talking about works with overtly political themes. well, personally, I'm completely fine with it! the beauty of fiction is that the sky's the limit. why should politics be left out of it? at best, political themes can really enrich a story and make it feel more relatable to people. hell, it could even make them think and change their worldviews. at worst, it can devolve into a preachy pile of rubbish.
I'll pull out some examples of works that expertly infuse politics into their stories. the best one I can think of is Guillermo del toro's pan's labyrinth. it's basically a fairy tale about a young girl who might be the princess of a lost kingdom. this mysterious faun being tells her to do several dangerous tasks in order to reclaim her title, all of which put her or her family's lives in great danger. the main conflict therefore is about whether obeying people thoughtlessly is truly moral or not. pretty typical stuff, but the setting of the fairy tale is what really strengthens it. it takes place in 1930s Spain, during the civil war. fascism was the law of the land, and groups of anarchists and socialists were one of the many fighting against it. obviously the fascists are all about obeying authority no matter what while the anarchists are very much in the 'no gods or masters' camp. this ties in incredibly well with the conflict and moral of the fairy tale, and is an excellent way of having politics inform a fictional (in this case, a fantasy) story.
now, a bad example would probably be family guy, lol, and more specifically Brian griffin. he's nothing more than a mouthpiece for the creator's views and doesn't really have any character beyond that. he comes off as preachy as worst and boring at best. don't be like family guy basically lmao
I guess i'm feeling pretty passionately about this cause the comic I'm working on rn ends up dealing with political stuff. it takes place in the 80s miami and deals with organized crime and law enforcement. so obviously, the war on drugs, the unrestrained capitalism, class and race, whatever people read into it, blah blah blah. I think in many ways it makes for an exciting story, cause those themes are pretty interesting hahaha!
so yeah, I think political themes are Good, but it all depends on how you infuse it into your stories. always remember that's there's a fine line between subtle and preachy!

[Spikings]

The thing is, politics will always influence the characters and story, even if it's not a part of the story itself. I don't think you can have a story that's too political, only a story with political commentary that's badly written. If the politics don't fit the situation, or feel shoehorned in, or the characters aren't at all affected by it, then why have it there? But if it contributes to the story as a whole, then go for it!

I know my comic will have some political themes in it as it progresses, but it's more of a side-arc that boosts the main one, so to speak.

[Pan]

I'm working on my entry for the new writers camp, and it's about a new king, so it has to have some degree of political undertones!

I've never written something like this before, but I'm trying keep the actual political aspects fictionalized and dependent on the world, to avoid angering people that may either agree or disagree with the characters' opinions...

Am I fighting a losing battle? XD I really want it to be interesting, but I know I personally am not a fan of reading about politics, so my hypocritical side is angry with me...