60 / 85
Oct 2019

LOL! He's one of those gifted bard types that I mentioned,

Every time you fall and then get up, you only get stronger. Never stay down or give up.

:

Now those dudes are extreme.:laughing:

Ah, I'm sorry if I was mistaken, but it seemed to me too that you were saying it as if stating a fact and not an opinion. :cold_sweat: And I've seen a lot of experienced and professional authors say that they do not, in fact, plan everything that tightly before starting. Of course, there are also writers that do that. Either way, I don't think all professionals can be put under a single umbrella in such a way. After all, what works for one person might not work for another~ :smile:

Hmm, maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but I wouldn't call it positive to insist that writers can only successfully publish after properly planning things. As for execution, it isn't always dependant on planning. I've found that I, at least, execute ideas better when I don't exhaust my mind by planning every tiny detail beforehand :sweat_smile:

I think the point @yansusu is trying to make is that writers can create a story without planning everything, and then use rewriting and editing to polish it up by fixing all plotholes and the like before publishing. It doesn't have to start out being perfectly planned to come out being the best it can be :relaxed:

It was the exact opposite for me :grin: I started with very detailed planning of every small aspect of my story before realizing that it's better to give it some slack to turn into something more than I envisioned. I'm much happier with how it turned out now~ And the chapters the readers seem to have enjoyed the most are the ones I did impulsively with zero planning. It just seems to work for me that way :wink:

At no point of this poll or any post thereafter have I suggested that everyone has to religiously follow a set pattern to succeed. So I don’t really get what’s making some of you fine folks get all riled up. Are you reading too much into it, if so why?

When the overall outcome of the poll suggests over 90% of the votes favour a thought out planned approach, however basic or complex, before beginning to write the story, what’s the need for crying foul?

So the overall consensus of this poll determines most writers on here prefer to know where they are going and have a fundamental route of how to get there. On the way they can have as much fun as they like, as long as they reach their set destination and get the desired results.

I concluded with this paragraph in my ‘analysis’ post

Yet it’s ignored and just some phrases are being cherry picked and taken out of context. Sad.

I apologize if it feels that way. I suppose it might be the confident way in which you seem to have been stating that such a method is what professionals come to use. I simply wanted to say that it's not always the case. I didn't mean to read too much or say it as an argument. It was simply my attempt at discussing that point by stating my own opinion, that's all :slight_smile:

But...I didn't? :confused: I only said that it doesn't define all writers, that's all. And the poll proves that too. So I don't see why it's an issue? I'm sorry if I seemed to say something else.

Er...yes, you did say that. You said a lot of things to lot of people, but I can't possibly reply to all of those things or keep it all in my mind, which was why I 'cherry picked' which ones I wanted to discuss. I didn't mean to offend or sound confrontational. I merely wanted to discuss certain points you brought up that interested me while leaving out the rest since it didn't seem relevant.

I am part of the "write everything out club". But I think that's mostly because I see-saw between writing short stories and making comics. A lot of my scripts end up looking similar to how I structure my short-stories, and the way I plan everything out still leaves a lot of room for me to make changes and improvise.

My scripts are basically narrative summaries, based more on character motive and interaction so that I can fully capture their gesture when I draw them. Though I do include dialogue that I really, REALLY, want to add:


I think what helps me keep working on my comics, even though I'm writing everything out, is to talk it out with other people and still draw concept art and scenes. If I can picture it, along with writing it, it makes it easier to actually get the pages completely:


It's what I did for My Demon Valentine and Our Universe, and it seems to work so far! :blush:

I guess with me I generally like to know specific things, like where certain scenes go, but usually I like to make that as a base line and then improvise along the way. I guess depending on how it's done, it can either end up feeling more natural or feeling more like I'm rambling (hopefully it ends up as the former).

Ah, so, you have a very strict idea of what a profession is. Got it. If you want to talk about technical papers like what lawyers and law makers write, that is a different type of beast. You want to talk about stories here, then you will get hobbyists and professionals and it is not your place to determine which they are based on one sentence they say in an opinion poll.

Because as I stated

Knowing how you yourself writes is not a bad thing, a flaw, or for others to look down upon.
Your responses come off haughty and rude. You wanted answers, and we gave them. If you want clarity, say so.

My opinion, confident as it may seem to some, is based on years of experience and personal success. As a writer, I opine on what has worked best for me and my circle of colleagues. And most publishers prefer that writers working with them are organised enough to produce work that is profitable.

Yes, not every single writer uses the ‘Have a plan before executing’ approach, but a good majority do – as it is quite evident in the Poll result so far.

And again, at no point have I stated that such is always the case, so for you to come back and say that ‘it’s not always’ the case makes no sense. You just assumed it, as much as the other person you quoted has.

All of this is just going round and round in a meaningless ellipse, so let’s agree to disagree and get back to writing stories.

Cheers!

Thank you for clarifying. Cheers!

I'd like to say organizing might not always beget profit, but...let me just leave it at that. And I did apologize in case I was mistaken, which you have clearly said is so :confused: That is how it came across to me as--and a few other people as well, I'm taking--that's all.

And yes, we don't seem to be going anywhere, so let's stop here then :slight_smile:

I mean, it IS my job.

The comics where I have everything planed out start to finish never get finished and always end up permanently on hiatus.

The comics where I do the "write as I go along" do even worse and never get far and are dead.

The comics where everything is planned out but the dialog and events leading to each other isn't completely finished yet and allows me to work on writing work alongside drawing have been thriving when it comes to creation and both readership. It's just what works best for me. Though do note that my writing is still several chapters ahead (over a years worth of drawing) and all the story-boarding and writing gets done long before I get around to drawing it. Think of it more as writing in arcs or clusters of chapters that could be a book. Those will be completely finished and mapped out before I draw it, just not all the way to the far off last chapter that I don't get to draw for 15+ years.

Everyone works differently, you just have to find out what works best for you, and this can often be more flexible when you're a one man team.

Haha yeah they're extreme.

To be honest, i do a bit of everything. The outline of the story would be anchored in three parts, the beginning middle and end. For The Golden Quiche I would let events have more wiggle room since it's a shounen gambit adventure. The only set piece are the definite ending and the middle twist. The journey to get there is drafted, but with some monkey wrenches thrown in to hinder the cast.

For my next professional story though... That involved quite a bit of spreadsheets of detailing a draft of every event to steer to a set ending.

I've written two novels from an outline of the entire story, and though it's nice to know I can do it, I prefer doing a rough outline of part of the story (several chapters), writing it, tweaking it, then moving onto the next section. I find when I work this way, my first drafts have only small problems that need dealing with. I find with full outlines, because I know what's going to happen, I end up rushing and being a little bored.

im a pantser that only really works out characterizations conflict, and story arcs before hand other wise i work it out as a solo ttrpg with the rule of cool as my top priority. i mean i just had my MC gauss accelerate an old nokia phone through a person mutated by the influence of the old ones

I'm gonna have to say number 1 (can't vote for some reason). If not number 1, then number 2 with characters set from the get go. It's important to have interesting characters from the start so that you know what kind of story you are writing.

9 days later

I love to have everything logical, deterministic and in a "cause-effect"-pattern. So I did it! Before I put down a word I plan everything thoroughly so I can focus on one thing at a time. When planning I use notebook and the Top-Down-Strategy which means I take the whole and constantly chunk it down until I don't need to go into further detail anymore. Whenever I want to include something but can't justify it yet, I ask a chain of why-questions until it makes sense.. I really love order so I nurture a style that emphasizes it. Once I have everything planned out I can focus on writing and polishing lyrical beauty and expressing emotions. I have everything set up so I don't have to come up with band-aids on the fly

Do you write fiction to sell your work, or do you write fiction for pleasure? Or can one do both?

I'm not a planner at all. I have no ending, but a lot of stories and a main plot planned I want to explore. Don't know what the resolution of the main plot will be. That's why for the time being im doing mini stories in the universe

I have a beginning and an end, and I struggle for months until I find a way through writing how I'm even going to get to that end!:cry_01:

I swear, sometimes characters have a mind of their own though...

I prefer to plan it out,the last time i didn't it took years to see the convoluted mess it became without it .
I learned my lesson of newer ignoring the world building ,that affects the story greatly.

You should had another option like other. I myself do a combination or sometimes change the way according to the type of the story.

The best bet is to bend their plans to your plans. :smiley:

You are their god, tame them, bend them to your will. :smiley:

I concur. Every story needs a solidly grounded setting.:smile:

So I start with an idea and then come up with how I want it to end.
I come up with scenes that I want to happen and write them down on note cards so I can rearrange them as needed.
My characters evolve as I write, so I have to go back and fix the beginning several times.

12 days later

More of option #2, but I do have an ending. I usually have the general plot of the chapter, but then I'll sit down and expand on the plot, developing it. This type of writing allows me to go in certain directions that I feel how the characters should react to an event, another character, or a situation; it also allows me do think about the next chapter as I'm working on the current chapter(making the comic) and improve some key point scenes that I want to do.

I have a set ending and important turn of events, and the core personality of my characters. I hate plot holes and deus ex machinas. At least with solidified story elements I can avoid them.

Dialogue and interactions, though, I let em run free. It usually yields to great character growth!

3 months later

For me I don't write them, I just imagine them and daydream about them like my webcomic is an animated series in my head. How I feel the story should play out, I draw and write the text in the actual work itself while it's coming to me full force lol. So sometimes in my webcomic series it's 1st come and served ideas and tropes I love to death and want to show others through my work and some stuff I think about, if it's a little to much then I'll change things up a bit. So yeah my work isn't really planned all the way out, I just need the basic blueprint of my focus and expand on it to have a story that evolves. I personally want a story that evolves on it's own so planning isn't necessary to me. I feel this route is really for visual people, sometimes planning helps but for me I get frustrated I'm not an organized person and not getting to the meat which is the drawing and adding the text can really get me stressed lol. So I draw and add text while getting ideas of what should happen all at the same time, some are 1st come served ideas and some ideas I feel shouldn't play out a certain way cause of reasons. Again as a visual daydream person I like to animate my series in my head and let that do the work and pick the stuff I like or love and that's it.

I start with a plan and then my characters run away from me and the plan goes out the window. I have no control!

I climb up on my table and I squat on my keyboard. Whatever comes out is the story. Its a very messy process.

No but seriously, I get an idea, I write down some notes towards it so I dont forget about it, I then work out how the scenario plays out, find out which characters make sense to use, if not I make new ones for that purpose and then go on from there. It just flows out, Yknow?

How do your own characters run away from you?
And why would you think that you cannot have control over your own imagined creations?
You've created the plan and the characters, why should that not work for you?

This is not a critique on your comment, just curious about your technique and if there's a way to work out why this happens for you. :slight_smile:

My characters are very dear to me sometimes its easy to believe that they are actual people. So I start off writing with an outline and one of them decides that no, that's not how they would react or that's not how they would go about doing that task. Other times I think of something new to inject like a reference to a historical event and temporarily changes the direction of the plot. I'm not too good at sticking to outlines and its probably not the best system but it works for me in a way. Its very stream of consciousness and it most likely confuses the heck out of my readers.

I'm usually winging every episode when I sit down to make them, with exception of the current events that I accidentally planned something for like 6-7 episodes, but after that, back to improvising

It won't let me vote for some reason but I am definitely in the bucket of "Plan Everything"

It does depend on the story, but for the stories I like to write (and read), I enjoy making very complicated plots. Like very, truly complicated stories with foreshadowing and symbolism and just a whole bunch of goodies that require an entire completely polished script start to finish.

And like, there's no rush to get it to the comic phase, so I just take my time when I'm in the prep process, I think the time is important for me in debating if I like this story enough to draw for years and years.

Like IMO I really enjoy the process of research and writing and rewriting. Drawing is such a physically taxing (and painful when the carpel tunnel hits) process, that I don't want to have any panels that don't need to be there, or any chapters that don't need to be drawn. I'm a huge fan of editing your art in your comic to the bare minimum of what you need to be appealing (maybe too much) and the only way you can know what isn't necessary is to know the whole story.

But some stories don't require complicated plots. Especially if they are zero plot wonders that are just environmental and aesthetic. Those don't require really that much planning.

You voted already - on the second option (first in poll standings ) - you can check the results, all voters are visible. :relaxed: