5 / 30
Sep 2019

So my main series has several main characters with some complicated relationships between them, as well as an extended family for most of them, and I do admit that it's complicated (think of someone's wife ending up as somebody else's wife, illegitimate children, past lives and past life's children - that kind of complicated) :sweat_smile:
Now, a reader mentioned today that they could use some kind of diagram for it and I've considered a relationship chart before but never really knew how to go about this in a smart way.

Did anybody do one and has any tips on how to go about this? Maybe some helpful program?
I'm not an artist so for me a simple one where I can put names and maybe descriptions for the relations would be good enough but maybe somebody else needs something more fancy so we could gather information on that as well :smile_01:

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    Sep '19
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    Sep '19
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HOLD MY WATER

I have a file... somewhere.... that shows.... mine... digs through files frantically

I use an excel sheet to keep track of dates (approximates) and ages. It's a calendar that has stuff for the world and timeline but not all stuff that will effect the story. For example, this part shows the birth of an important character named Matéas.


As time passes I manually keep track of ages and things happening to a degree.
(different colors indicate a different 'age' since Mateas lives a long time, he goes through several 'calendars')

Now if I had set it up differently I'd be able to have the year numbers in a different tab and use excel to just do the math for me (by writing out the equation: X=2470+524 for example). Instead I had to do the math myself.
I have a physical note somewhere from the start of NTN where I have arrows and lists of things that basically are things like Will-> son of Adell & Laeri -> Adell's married to Mia -> has son Alexander with her.
It ends up looking something like this chart

I'm pretty sure there's a few programs that you can do this stuff on. I think I'm thinking of Scrinver but some people use personal wiki's to do the job


https://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/writers/t.103605989_4/#4

On an Excel Sheet, create the entire timeline of your plotted story, preferably in years. Give each character a row and each year a column. Then colour code what character interacts with whom and when through the duration of a story,
Easy for reference, and you can also do this with plot shifts and major events in the story, Its a lot of work, consider it pre-production, and it pays off in the long run.

I'd recommend you look into some genealogy programs, as they can help make visualizations of family trees, or at least give you ideas on how it would look. Rootsweb is one I've used that has some free versions.

Ah, no, I probably didn't explain well: I have no problem keeping these things in mind but it's sometimes complicated for readers after taking breaks for some time so I'm searching for a way to do a relationship chart that the readers can look at that will basically just have the characters and a mention of the relationship between them so they can easily refresh their memories and grasp the story again without havign to reread everything just because of some missing details.

@dan That's a great idea! I'll take a look at those :blush:

Great thread idea, I'm waiting for the answers you will receive.
I'm working one one such tree at the moment, but I don't think it's really readable, so I'm more in the position to also receive advice than give some...

I knew I couldn't be the only person wondering about this :smiley:

@dan That one looks great! Although they do have some trouble with Chinese names it seems :confused: But I guess I can work around that by just switching things up ...

I'm sure by searching around you can find something that might work better. Or at least it can give you an idea on what it could look like, and you could draw it manually.

Yep, I've found some programs already that might work well. I guess I'll just test them one after the other and see what's working best. Anyway, great idea with the family tree! I honestly didn't think of that ... I was only pondering in the direction of diagrams or something.

Do symbols. I saw one a while ago for some manga or anime that if it was a love interest it had a :heart: with the arrow pointing to. So if it's mutual love, the arrow points both ways, if it's just one way then it just points from the person loving to the other. If it was family it had a diamond or something. And if it was a break-up then it'd have :broken_heart:

From a reader's viewpoint, the story should in itself give all that info within its narration.

But I get it now, your writing is character driven with the story being secondary. The story meanders along where the characters take it,

The Excel layout works for writing that is story driven where character development is tied into the main plot.

:no_mouth: Right! And then I could just add an explanation at the side which symbol meant what ... Thanks! That idea is great!

I guess it could also be used together with the tree. Like the genealogy programs have only family relations but (as far as I've seen by looking at a few just now), they don't mention what relationship it would be exactly though (other than through the children lines) so if it was set up with just a relationship from one person to the other as in married but no symbol is shown, then that could be added in by hand afterward :thinking:

Well, the story does focus a lot on the character development but both sides influence each other with neither being secondary. Some things from outside will happen that force character development and sometimes the development will change the flow of the story.

It's just that the story is very long (as in 12 volumes, some of which have between 150-200 chapters) and even though I update daily (and sometimes more than one chapter), it'll take years to finish it (plus there are prequels and sequels) so I expect readers to take breaks (after all, some people like to stockpile and binge).
So even though the story does explain everything, the relationship chart is intended as a way to refresh the readers' mind after such breaks so they don't have to re-read hundreds of chapters and can just look at the chart to gauge who was who again and then get back to reading where they left off.

ah man, I just write all that down in a dedicated sketchbook just for that story by hand--so each story has it's own sketchbook just full of lore and meanings of words and where everyone is from, their ages, their backgrounds etc (or set of books depending on the complexity) For figuring out how people relate over time, I just write a chart where the vertical rows are the characters and the horizontal rows are the periods of time. That way I know roughly where each character is.

thing is I have a really hard time doing this typing on the computer? I have to brainstorm character backgrounds on paper, it's weird.

If I were gonna do one I’d do it like dawgofdawgness posted. As a matter of fact it’s a very good idea for me to do one because I can hardly keep track of things.

Having it visually spread out help me like visualize their relationships more.

Not helpful advice or anything but thanks for the idea since it never occurred to me to make one until now lol.

You can try Campfire for relationships! Or you can also use scrapple. Scrapple is a mindmap program while campfire is a database(?) program

We've been asked for this on both our series now. I wonder if it's a trend because our second series is pretty straight forward. We use Photoshop to put together a simple infographic. This is what it ended up looking like.

Might have to copy and paste the link to make it work for some reason.

Oh my god! Why didn't I think of Scapple? :scream: It's even tied in with Scrivener (which I'm using) so this might actually be the easiest way to do this. Especially for future projects where I could also use it before I start writing ... :thinking:

Not sure if I'm sold on Campfire since I read some pretty bad reviews on that one just a while ago on Steam (it never occurred to me you could use it in this way though :sweat_smile:) but maybe they've updated since then? Did you try it for yourself and could share some experiences?