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Oct 2018

After reading the tropes page I don't really think this counts as a Drama Bomb. It doesn't really add any drama.

I should probably preface this by mentioning that I'm trans myself. I'm kind of sensitive and think about these kinds of things a lot. That said, if he'd called her a racial slur instead I think I would have had a similar reaction. I feel like it would have blindsided me less if the terminology were less harsh or if he'd done some more casually transphobic stuff earlier. I think the suddenness was a lot of the issue for me.

Anyway. Narratively it mostly does two things: it reinforces that our main character is kind of a shitty inconsiderate person, which we already knew, and it outs a trans character to the audience.

And that second part does need to be done. If you have a trans character the audience will assume they're cis until you make it explicit, which sucks. I have a similar problem with my own comic the main character is trans and trying to make it both clear to the audience and not a big deal in the context of the fantasy world the comic is set in is really difficult.

As for the camera thing, you'd need a pretty high end camera and lighting setup to rival the image quality of a scanner. Natural media that doesn't scan well often doesn't photograph well either. You can get a lot out of digital touchups for a lot cheaper.

Also for a slow burn slice of life type story your pacing is really pretty standard? It is going to come off slow to people who want faster paced stories and that's fine. You can bake a perfect pie and people who only want cake still aren't going to like it.

Sorry for the doublepost but I thought I'd take a crack at demonstrating the separating characters from detailed backgrounds thing. I probably spent way too long on this for what is honestly a pretty minor issue. I used the same panel as Draconic for consistency. I don't think the original is bad.


Edit: Tapas cut it off but if you full view the image there's like 5 variants here

First is the original with no changes.

Second has a white halo around the characters, it wouldn't work for all scenes but I think it looks okay here.

Third has a bolder outline around the characters. I personally use this one pretty often but I think it looks best on art styles that are more cartoony and line focused. I don't think it works great here but it might look good in other scenes.

Next is one with the background colors adjusted to be more blueish, I did kind of a sloppy job here but if it had been colored that way from the start it could look very nice.

And the last one I made the background lighter and less saturated. Again I did it sloppily but the characters stand out very strongly. You could do either of these last two with the medium you're already using.

I guess my main point is that you have options, and some options might work better in some situations than in others.

@SleepingPoppy Lol unsalvageable isn't really the best word. I'm not really meaning to say "I'm just bad", but it does feel like I'm having comprehension issues and I do feel bad for it. I do have a history of being slower (not meaning this as an insult, it's one of those things that if you met me irl you'd notice my mind has a problem with processing. My reaction time is slower, it takes a bit longer for information to get to my brain, things don't always translate correctly. It takes some hand-holding sometimes.), so I'm not sure if its that, or my enjoyment for over-saturation of detail is blinding me to when I don't need something.
Either way I am going to start being more critical with placement of stuff, because what is important to me may not be important to the story. Like, learning every aspect of my character's personalities probably isn't necessary, or as entertaining as I find it to be.

Thank you for the reassurance though! I picked a real winner for a comic: Depressing from the first page, the main character is a douchebag, I'm picking up all the subjects people say not to put in your story.

@kytri Oh nice! Are you FtM, MtF, or part of the 'other' gender spectrum? (just so I don't misgender you in the future) I'm NB, but can't say I've had a whole lot of personal experience with it since I'm closeted irl, although I can understand why it's so... erg! I guess I sort of based the situation off stuff I overhear a lot. Most of my coworkers openly throw around 'tranny' in casual conversation, and can't seem to understand that it's a slur. I wanted to do the same for Apollo where he grew up in an environment where he thinks that's an okay word when it's not, and chalk it up to his "cis-dude" ignorance.
But yeah! I wanted to also find a way to show Galia is trans since there will be a small, semi-important scene relating to transness later on with her and Julian. Although I really could have used less offensive unintentional insults, I did feel pretty bad for posting that page.
That sucks, though! Unless you establish that world is bigoted in some way, it is super hard to do stuff like that in fantasy settings... even then it can be tough without doing that thing where a character accidentally sees them undressing, someone who knows them says something gross, or they just flat out announce it.

On a side-note I do have to tell you (assuming that you might read more in the future) that some of Apollo's friends, particularly Brandon, is more grossly transphobic. So he may end up spouting worse stuff since Apollo and him will be shown at the bar a few times, and Apollo's coworkers hate him, I will be sure to leave a CW for pages like that though. I'm not gonna lie, by the end of chapter 7 this comic is going to be pretty... uncomfortable, possibly upsetting if you end up getting invested. Not as far as transphobia, just... the subject matters.

Ah, I figured you'd have to basically have professional photography equipment to get a good shot. My cousin does painting for a living, and he uses some pretty high end stuff to photograph is work for social media.

AAH! Thank you so much! This actually gives me a really good idea of the things I can do. I've been wanting to play around with contrasts and stuff more, I think it would look really nice, and make the comic more readable. I just need to get out of this obsession with making everything look so literal/flat.

Also thank you for the feedback! Even though I tend to text-wall and come off as really bitchy, I really do take in the critiques and ween myself into applying them.

XD Okay, I just wanted to make sure you didn't feel discouraged!

And I can totally understand processing information differently/slowly. I'm dyslexic, and several family members are dyslexic and ADD. No judgement hear, regardless. ^^

@kytri @DaniBoy Separate note, I don't know if either of you have read Knights Errant, but it might be a useful example of Trans/NB characters in a fantasy setting? Though they want farther into the identities of the characters in the original version, the reboot hasn't gone as in depth yet. (Feel free to ignore if you already know about it or otherwise don't find it helpful!)

I know of Knights Errant but to be honest I haven't kept up with it. Last I looked at it was well before the reboot.
I remember a male presenting character being revealed to be AFAB, but I don't remember if at the time it was clear that he was trans and not that it was a woman crossdressing to do man stuff situation. I remember it being a sort of big reveal kind of moment though which is something I'm specifically trying to avoid doing.

The current iteration is pretty different from the original. There is still kind of a reveal for one character, and while not subtle, it's less clothes-taking-off-y. I think the over all tone and thought going into the story is better worked out this time around, though. And it's still really early as far as addressing the identities of the characters. So might be useful to check out, but I can't say it'd be quite what you're looking for. There's two characters handled two different ways though.

I'll probably give it a second look eventually. I liked it well enough.
And I should probably make a thread for my own comic so I don't take this one too far off topic.

Naaah, it does help me realize I shouldn't try to monetize my comic since it's not quality enough... and I only post one page a week, but I got a story stuck in my head that I want to get out so I'm gonna keep going.

Lol that's something I always thought I had. Words and numbers get mixed up a lot when I'm reading, talking, or typing/writing. (not so bad with writing which is why I hand letter my comic) Who knows, maybe someday I'll get insurance and go see a doctor to find out why my brain is so trash. xD Thank you for understanding though.

I actually read Knights Errant in... high school? Maybe a little after, seeing the art for it around Twitter has made me want to check it out again, I never got very far the first time.

I disagree that it's not quality enough. I've seen plenty of worse comics that people are able to monetize, they may just be better at selling their work. It's not a judgement on quality.

Also you've got a story featuring angsty characters and beautiful art, both of which are very marketable.

No you don't need the professional photography equipment. The camera on smartphone nowaday is surprisingly good if you provided a good lighting setup, or take advantage of sunlight. But if you can buy a good camera, then go for it.

Hey, how about creating more comic? :slight_smile:
You know, instead of a long series, just create a multiple one-shot that focus on a linear problem.
Or just drawing something that's super stupid that you feel funny inside your head? Try everything.

I feel bad that I couldn't give you any solid advice for your storyline, sorry about that.

You should think of it as a challenge, a quest line from video game, not a life's burden.
The challenge: Shape your story and artwork to get more attention as possible.
Your reward: Your comic is now monetizable.
I challenge you to do this btw. :laughing:

There is no "you must be this tall to monetize" rule. What is "quality enough"?? You're holding yourself to an imaginary standard. If you don't want to monetize don't, and if you do, go for it. There's nothing really to loose by trying. I mean, isn't one of the great things about patreon, paypal, etc, that it allows non-professionals to earn money?

Schools don't always test appropriately for it (or find ways out of testing for it), so it's possible! Some other signs are trouble with left and right, mirror writing, mixing your d's and b's as a kid. Any of those in excess when you were little would be good clues. Though it can effect different people differently!

It's changed quite a bit over time!

@kytri Lol true, I've seen so pretty awful things making money. It's just a personal thing, I'd feel like I'm swindling people. Maybe after my comic is done I'll let whatever readers I got decide if they'd be willing to pay anything for it.

@Draconic My phone is a little… special now thanks to me dropping it one too many times, so a pro camera would be a better choice. I’ve been wanting to get a high detail camera for painting and color references anyway.

I could start a shorter story, but that’d mean putting my current project on hold, and I really like working on my comic despite it not being amazing. Right now I work 11-12 hours a day, then spend most of my at-home time helping my mom with cooking, cleaning, and taking care of our pets (I can function on 5-7 hours of sleep). Which leaves 30 minutes to 1 hour or so to draw, and pages take 20-30 hours to finish depending on complexity.
I’ve thought about collaborating with someone for a short story, but that may take a while because I’m unreasonably picky, my drawing time is extremely valuable to me. I’ve also thought about doing an autobio sort of diary comic with some humor, but my sense of humor is really morbid and disturbing, so it’d probably be about as niche as my current comic. Lol.

Don’t feel bad about the advice, it’s a weird comic. I didn’t really start it with a normal comic style in mind, which is totally on me since I was thinking about having fun and venting my emotional distress over comprehension, or readability.

What sucks about changing the story, and I feel like a brat about this, is that I don't want to. This comic is for me so I don’t want to change it to suit the masses, but I want to do the best I can with what I got. Maybe my next comic I can do a digitally drawn BL-GL/fantasy, in a Japanese or Korean inspired style, with some “shemxy” sex scenes. If I can do it as a teen, I can do it as an adult!
Maybe I can market this comic as research for Psychology classes since people supposedly studying that field have been more interested in it than others. xD

Sorry if I’ve come off as emotional or butthurt in any of my responses, it’s never meant for the critic but is usually my frustration/embarrassment with the mistakes I didn’t notice. It's a work thing.

@SleepingPoppy Pff yeah, I'll admit my job has sort of trained me to have impossible standards for myself. We're all about "excellence in all you do", if I'm trying to monetize something I'm not being excellent in I'm basically stealing money. I acknowledge how weird this is, and don't hold this mindset for anyone else, just me. Maybe I'll get over this eventually, and I really want to (even been seeing a Therapist for it), but for now it's a huge mental barrier.

I never mirror wrote, but I saved some old elementary school assignments where I mixed of d's and b's, and wrote random letters backwards like s' and t's. Who knows, the school system is pretty garbage when it comes to the learning process and how no one retains information the same way, and kids hardly ever get properly diagnosed when it comes to learning disabilities.

Okay, well I wish you the best! Try to just do what's right for you. I just know my own comic is far from perfect, but I try to just be honest about what I have to offer to my patrons.

I would draw characters and write sentences going in whatever direction their mouth was facing. Mirror writing at its finest. XD

Unfortunately schools test for IQ, then use a high result as "evidence" there's no learning disability. Even though it's well known dyslexics often test with high IQs. Its done on purpose to avoid diagnoses and save money.

Work on your comic! If you're writing the story for yourself that's what matters, especially if it's important to you. Part of writing a comic is being embarrassed at old pages, I only started about a year ago and when I look at my old pages I cringe a bit.
As for technique, are you using blending tools. There's quite a lot of white which normally comes from using a toothy paper but with bristol board it should be smoother. One of the reasons coloured pencils aren't a great comic tool is that they take such a long time to do! If you don't have a blending pencil you should get a few of those for small areas, they're amazing.
For larger areas (and if you're not too bothered about keeping your pages forever) you can use baby oil to blend them too. Here's the first result that I googled. https://www.carrie-lewis.com/blending-with-baby-oil/3
My other suggestion would be layering a light colour wash with watercolours first but obviously then you need to buy and learn to use watercolours too!

You post page by page on webtoons? That's...unusual.
Anyways, I think your comics are overrated, that's my 2 cents...

@craftymarten Pff yeah, true. This is probably my second real attempt, the first one I jumped into with no ending, or any idea what I wanted out of it. I just had characters and a vague idea, it was kinda awful.

Right now, no. The issue might be the pencils? I'm using the verithin Prismacolor pencils which are hard, scratchy, and don't blend very well. I've been wanting to try out Caran d'Ache Pablo or Faber Castell Polychromos', hearing they're much better quality, but I've been a bit nervous since I've been using the Prismas for so long. A blending pencil would be good investment though, for the larger stuff I may be able to just went a brush and run it over the colored area? The verithins act a little bit like watercolor pencils when water gets on them.

Thank you for the link, and suggestions! You've been really helpful!

@nekoendy Sorry babe, can't take your comment seriously unless you explain why.

Yeah hard pencils over a large area will be quite difficult! I'm really surprised you can produce pages like that, it must take a long time!
The pencils you're talking about I think are oil based instead of the wax based ones like prismas so they blend better but I think the pigments are usually a little duller, and they cost a lot more! I use the regular prismas but they're quite bad for breaking.
The reason I suggested the blending pencil or baby oil is because they're both not very expensive. You'll be able to get both for $5-6 probably so if you don't like them it's no big loss. You should look up some coloured pencil techniques online and just try some out on a new piece of paper, Bristol board doesn't hold water amazingly well so if you're using it a cotton swab with a tiny bit of water is probably the best way to go.

It does take a long time, I usually have to go in layers because don't fully cover the first time around. Although I've been using the same type of pencils for like... 11 years now, so I've sorta learned to work with them.

It's funny how breaking is such a common thing for Prismas, mine are really bad about this if I don't use a very specific type of pencil sharpener. Also I'm not sure if this happens with anyone else who uses verithins but every so often I get a hard chunk on the lead which scratches up the paper something awful, it's even torn holes in less durable paper. I've learned to feel when those chunks come up so my pages don't get too noticeably damaged, but it wastes a lot of lead since I have to either sharpen them out, or pick off the tip where the chunk is.
Because of these issues I think it would be good as a long-term investment to change brands, imo one expensive pack of quality pencils seems cheaper than a less pricey set that breaks all the time, and ends up getting chipped away due to unusable bits. But that's definitely something I'll have to save for.

Lol maybe the dullness of the oil pencils would be good because I have gotten feedback that my colors are too bright.

For right now though, baby oil and/or blending pencils would be the best choice to help with the current issue. Pff wow, you know, I've never actually looked up how to work with color pencils before. It'd probably be a good idea to do that.
Again, thank you for the suggestions! I'll definitely look up some color pencil techniques, and try out the trick with the blender and baby oil. Maybe I'll get a couple stand alone pencils from the brands I mentioned just to see how they work compared to Prismas, because I've never messed with... any other type of pencil before. (I think I played with Kimberly watercolor pencils once upon a time, but I can't remember when or what happened to them, so I have no idea.)

I've gotten the same complaint so I'm probably biased, but bright colors rule.

I don't think your colors are too bright, you are doing great.
The dynamic range of your current colored pencils is the real culprit.

I can explain more about "dynamic range" if you want to understand. :smiley:
It would feels annoying if I explain something without you asked though. Or you can study yourself about this.

P/s: I mainly use bright colors btw.