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LMAO
oh man, sign me up.
You made some good ideas for solutions... but yeah, I think promotion in the forums is purely incestual at this point. No more people will talk about our work we share here than the 10 people who already do.
Not to sound cynical--because I do like the idea of better discovery tools--but I feel like it's going to have some sort of formula to it where so many stories will still be pushed under the waves in no time.
I think there is value in the author boosts you mentioned.
That'd be a very nice communal thing to have on each other's profiles. Something like: "Here are 5 comics/novels I follow and enjoy and why." Or have a truce thing where, if you're in the mystery genre, and so is another author--you both could essentially opt in to have each other always listed on each other's comic/novel as a way to suggest to a reader that these projects are both the same quality, similar aesthetic, similar humor, etc. Or does that sound neurotic? 
Listen, if you, like me, think that spam is a problem, I have a simpler and cheaper suggestion than the one in the main thread:
We have a large volume of topics every day, always publishing the same works...
... My suggestion would be to create a new category, where authors could summarize the episodes of their stories; that way, they would post well-made summaries of the current episodes and would only publish their work again after releasing a new episode to summarize on the forum.
I have a thread that simulates exactly this, take a look please:
https://forums.tapas.io/t/summarize-the-first-chapter-of-your-story/848722
My idea is that everyone posts a summary of their story and puts a very catchy headline in the title space.
In the body, there will be relevant information, such as the type (novel or comic) and genres of the story, and, below, a summary of the episode in question, with the link to access the work.
Something crucial:
All responses in a summary post must be about the work being summarized; This will force other authors to make their own thread summarizing episodes.
I believe that this way, anyone who reads the summary and has been genuinely interested in reading the story will read it, and there will no longer be that flood of spam, as authors will only be able to promote their stories through summaries, and this will only be possible when new episodes come out, resulting in a cleaner and more objective forum.
I believe that just saying "read my story" does not generate interest, but giving details about it is very objective and, therefore, can arouse interest in the reader.
But of course, for this to work, it would be necessary to remove the promotion category, and then I don't know if you would agree with that :v
Well, I hope you will at least take this suggestion to your superiors, as I believe this tactic will reduce spam and bring objective promotions, as it explains what the story is about and, consequently, will arouse much more interest than promotional topics being spammed around.
We must seize the servers.
Honestly, it would be nice to have something like AO3 for original fiction. It's my understanding that got started around (among other things) legal concerns when the fanfic sites of the time were plotting some shady stuff with monetization. (Disclaimer: I only half remember what I'm talking about.)
But I would venture even most community writers here eventually WOULD like to monetize their works (it would be nice to at least like, pay for my private health insurance with writing money or something), so I doubt there would be a ton of interest in starting a nonprofit archive lol. Of course, an archive itself could be nonprofit without the individual creators on it being nonprofit.
But it all sounds very complicated, so probably I will just keep spamming the forums like there's no tomorrow.
It's essentially just promotion then but under a new name. Sure there are more guidelines put in place like how the Collaborations category is set up currently on the forum, but I doubt everyone will adhere to the rules and inevitably spam will crop up. Lots of users would just dump their info and run, as it is now.
It doesn't solve the issue of how to get readers into this space or promote genuine interaction between creators again.
Listen
The difference between the summaries category and the promotions category is that in the promotions category, each person makes as many posts as they want and they do it anyway, causing spam and not generating as much interest in potential readers; The summary category obliges you to make a detailed and well-done post, and would restrict the number of posts by the number of episodes of each work, and of course, in the responses there would be people commenting on the work itself, and not responding to their own works, thus reducing the absurd amount of identical posts, which have the sole intention of making sub4sub.
The objective of both categories would be the same, to promote the works, but with different dynamics, and it is the dynamics of the summary category that will make the difference. And well, about you saying that eventually people would start spamming again, rules are rules, and mods have all the means necessary to make people behave, if they just want to.
I really hope you will at least take my suggestion to your superiors.
It hard to really make suggestions to improve the forums because from the years I have been on here, the number of people who use it is quite small. I think even Tapas notices this, which is why they prioritize the Discord. It appeals more to younger creators/readers.
The Forums however is just a relic of the past that Tapas just keeps around. I personally prefer it over Discord, but I am someone who is older who grew up on the pre-Twitter internet.
i can definitely recall a time when cross promotion had been pretty common, not super huge but still present. I can't vouch for how successful it was but if you dig far enough you can probably find some of the older threads that organized these kinds of practices so it's not like it hasnt existed it just hasnt come back in a while (unless someone want to prove otherwise coz i'm totes here for it)
speaking more broadly this isnt the first and definitely not the last time anyone's brought up gripes with the way things are or have been on the forums. folks who've been here a long time have taken to muting certain categories or just frequenting the place less often and there's pretty obvious discrepancy between the volume of promo threads versus discussion threads and even in those boxes a heavy lean towards creator conversation than ones that readers may feel inclined to jump into. plus there's just whatever biases and opinions that bounce around that people may or may not want to engage with so i dont doubt it sometimes feels...prickly? if that makes sense
attempts have been made to try to guide user habits but not everything sticks and while it'd be nice to see the forums return to their "glory days" there's the inescapable reality that those days are just kinda gone. plus at the end of the day tapas staff and mods can make a million tries at setting certain guidelines or enforcing rules but it still falls on the users to truly put to practice whats being taught and sharing that knowledge/info with one another and when you've got massive influxes of new users it becomes harder and harder especially if there's only so many folks doing the teaching. like i'm pretty sure there's rules about spam or types of promo and other "bad habits" that keep showing up but again it's up to users to even bother reading and following those rules
as an old time user i've been in the camp of pop in engage if i feel the need (and sometimes when i should probably just drop it 
) or muting/un-following stuff that doesnt catch my fancy or i'm not really interested in seeing (or straight up dunno how to interact with it), plus i just dont frequent the place as often as i used to since i'm more active on other sites and i think thats kind of the natural flow of things where some may find (or try to find) a permanent home here on the forums while some move onto other places that better suit what they're looking for. it does suck to see how things have changed but thats how things go on an internet thats constantly changing with it's user demographics changing along with it. you do what you can but all things change eventually 
Tapas has done a few things to punish âcommunityâ creators in the relatively short time that Iâve been here.
First and foremost was their decision to hide âcommunityâ works. Yes, we all know that our stuff is still there, and itâs only a few extra clicks away, but those few extra clicks are everything. A new visitor to the site is not going to notice the community tab. Theyâre going to have the so-called âpremiumâ stuff crammed down their throats.
And that is another biggie that shows exactly how little we matter to Tapas: the spamming of our notifications with those so-called âpremiumâ things. Every day I clear at least a half dozen out without even looking at them. And who can blame me? Itâs always âI was the female leadâs arch dukeâs second cousinâs villain babyâ or such. Tapas, if youâre going to spam me, at least spam me with things that are aligned with what is in my current library! If literally every other social media platform on Earth can show me adverts for truck tires after I did a search for truck tires, surely Tapas can figure out that a person with a library full of comedy, action, and LGBTQ stories is not interested in âI seduced the female leadâs babyâ.
Better yet, throw some community series in there as well! And I mean some new stuff! Weâve all seen Heartstopper! Yes, itâs a very nice comic! But give others a chance to be seen!
And yes, I realize that my rant is more toward Tapas as a whole than it is to this forum, but it is Tapasâ utter indifference to community series that donât get 250k views per day that drives people to spam the promotions section here. And it is that indifference that will guarantee that no matter how good a story may be, it will never get those 250k daily views.
lol I didn't even remember that, but you're right. That's how I found the forums, too. We're just following orders!
Eh, for what it's worth, I just saw this in my inbox on the main site and there's a novel in there with only 30 subs! So staff are looking through smaller series to spotlight. They just have to curate a list that balances ones that draw big crowds while also introducing new promising series to readers. https://tapas.io/collection/community-staff-picks9
I've noticed that they have been putting staff picks in the inbox on the main site. Also, if that's the novel I'm thinking of, it's one that I'm currently reading, and I highly recommend it! Didn't discover it through staff picks, but I'm glad some people might be able to. Go Mall Ghosts! 
However, the last time they advertised staff picks in the inbox, I did find something that I'm interested in checking out.
--
As far as the forums go, I don't really have anything insightful to say. Most forums that I've seen on sites like this steer heavily towards creators, though I think Tapas might have the most unbalanced ratio I've encountered so far. I'd recommend a recommendations section, but the Discord already has that covered (and tbh, I feel like that and some of the contests are the only reason readers are there either).
So would you say that there are more readers that have joined the discord or no? In other words are there more actual readers who are looking for new stories on the discord of tapas versus this forum? @NickRowler just asking. 
I know you didn't ask me specifically, but to answer your question, yes. I don't think I've seen readers here at all, but I've seen them on the Discord. They mostly hang out in the recommendations section either to recommend things they like or to look for new stories.
In order to keep that channel from being overrun with self promo, creators are only allowed to recommend their own work if it fits what someone else is asking for. There is a self promo channel, but that's basically like your average promo thread here where people just drop links and leave.
Oh wow, thank you so much for this info, Iâll consider joining the discord. Once again, thank you 
ď¸
i think the thing with main site promo issues is that tapas has to as mentioned by other prioritize what pays the bills but they do also look at community content but i imagine there's also probably the dilemma of sheer volume of works on the site overall versus whatever the number of staff members who are dedicated to looking through and finding community works to promote so it's likely a much higher barrier of labor than "just promoting more community works".
granted i'd love to see stuff from the community published we're part of what's helped to build up the site but i think it'd probably take a dedicated amount of laborers to perform the task especially to the amount it's demanded (at least by creators) which may not be guaranteed since youve got to take into account payroll (if it's even paid at all) and then screening those works to make sure it suits whatever tapas standards are for promoted works as i'm sure they've still got a metric that they go by
like it's definitely it's own beast that is connected to the forums thing but there's nuance and the issue seems to be finding a balance that sates tapas as a company and tapas' community (plus the whole reader demand and what they may be vocalizing so 
)
Now that you say that, it actually may be time to put the forums to rest--or at least, not say the forums advertise or help with promotion. It really is just a chat space at best. And that's cool! But yeah... perhaps reformation of this type of thing isn't what is needed. Rather, we just need to know there are other better means for getting what we want out of the tapas forums.
Change is good though, especially in this case. And I think creators need to understand that there is no singular place to properly advertise your projects and gain an audience through. Variety and proactiveness is key. And the tapas forums are not that. (not sure if they ever were?? i'm not a veteran here.)
I think there may have been a time where people were finding new comics to read from here on the forums but I feel like it was always definitely more a discussions and work-shopping (shop talking?) place from the jump than one for promo but somehow that got lost or confused as time passed
like i joined the site itself in late 2014 so any new comics i was finding was through the popular/whats new sections of the main site (before all the shuffling and renaming), spotlights that caught my eye or just checking out the works of people who i interacted with often or who's work was recommended to me.
once i hit up the forums in 2016 i was still mostly just popping into conversation threads so stuff i did read was either me peeping if anyone had their own work in their bio and we talked a lot/they seemed cool or if it was in a promo thread it was one that was like really specific (like fantasy stories with afro diaspora characters or like horror anthologies or something). Then there were threads where folks would share their favorite comics that they were reading and if a persons gushing about another story seemed interesting I'd check it out but I dont think people ever tried to suggest this place as being the "go to for promo"
like it's been a while but i feel like i'd seen more old threads talk about ways to make use of social media or tags on different platforms and if you had the coin to spare how to use stuff like topwebcomics or placed ads. it also kind of felt more collaborative with the advertising coz again there had been a dedicated cross-promo thread and then folks who had their own sites would sometimes offer advertising space on their sites to promo other creators (whether in a kind of cataloging format or just general cross promo). so i mean there was promo stuff but not like the dump and dash we see today and not nearly as bad when it did crop up
Just speaking from my experience with other writing sites with forums, it's pretty much the norm to have forum users be mostly creators. It makes sense when you consider that creators would be the people who have a greater interest in the site and who have more to gain from interacting with other users. It was pretty much the same in the Wattpad forums back when they existed, with the promotion threads becoming spam just like they are here. Most of the people using the forums were creators exchanging tips, talking about writing, or just socializing.
Not sure what caused the decline in users here, since I've not been here too long, but other than it being quiet at times, the forums work pretty much as any other I've been in. Once you mute the promotions threads it's a lot easier to find interesting topics. I don't think giving an incentive to users would help since that would still likely result in spam, even with limits on posting being placed.
Tbh, there's not any real solution other than for the creators who use the forums to get the word out. Readers are largely more interested in just that, reading, so it's not a surprise they don't come over. Does it suck? Yeah, a little. Would be nice to have things be more lively, but I think there's still some value to the forums as they are now so long as you temper your expectations.
Still like this better than discord, though. Things get a little too chaotic there and I don't like the quick pace of conversations.
I am not the best person to ask about this. Despite being part of the Tapas Discord, I am not active on it.
I have a tendency to get overstimulated by social media in general, which causes me to be a very passive user. The idea of checking 20+ tabs a day and scrolling through hundreds of message backlogs is not something I find enjoyable.
It really sucks trying to promote with zero social media presence. 
â
I'm the kind of person who hides in the background, but that doesn't really work if you want subs. I think my biggest concern is that even though Tapas is currently running a writing tournament, they're not actually doing anything to promote it, other than the small clickable rectangle in the event section. And even then, it still takes about five clicks to find a list of all those series in one place. I feel like there should be a category for it on the homepage...
Don't forget to like and subscribe! 
@axelruler interesting topic 
hope the Tapas creators see and are inspired by these suggestions 
@ThunderChicken yep totally agree lol @ âI seduced the female leadâs babyâ 
yep so tired of clearing those terrible notifications and titles and you're right they could have suggestions be made on our personal taste, like how youtube does it with a video similar to what you just seen. Or simply have the user select from a checkbox of genres (including the option for none).
@BreeBaxter your ideas sound cool, i'm still a small guy here but always felt that author collabs is a great way. Always have fun coming up with promoting fellow Tapas creators in my own series, as a thanks for them supporting me but also imagined the same with the 'win win' scenario as you said
Don't have anything new to add but it's super relatable:
For me the forums and discord (back when they had art events) was how I connected with the readers i currently have so thankful for that. Meanwhile on other webcomic sites I've mirrored on, got some views but its an audience of crickets, 0 comments, because of no forums there.
But yep would be great if they gave some visibility on main page (only recently I learnt they removed the community series) or come up with systems to as many already said on this thread. Would change the dynamics of the Forums for sure, and small authors would feel less like they have to 'spam on promotions' as some would say in order to be seen. And everyone's right, as Forums is more a creator space than somewhere an average reader would go. True, the forums would have to include other functions for 'average reader' to even care to visit here. My experience with Discord everything gets buried quickly, as new posts emerge so it always felt topics on Forums were longer lasting.
My interactions on Forums and Discord were always with fellow creators. Never encountered 'just readers' before. Would surely require some incentive for readers to come to the discord, most of the events which I enjoyed participating in were creator based.
And to me, most of the featured series seem bland and same-ish: "The Villianess is the female lead's uncle's ear-waxer' XD They may even attract wider demographic of readers with the greater range of genres and art styles seen in forums (like an actual Webcomics/webnovel version of YouTube).
Had to mute the promotion genre. There are a few authors (especially in the contest) who spam the heck out of the forums. It bothers people to constantly be pinged to sub4sub, sometimes my friends here get pinged 2-3 times by the same person to "help."
@stiatent They do have an option to select the genres that interest you, but I have never once seen them actually use my selections.
Just tried it again: Apparently the favorite genres option is just another way to search. They should absolutely apply those filters to their homepage. Maybe then I won't get spammed with things I have never once expressed interest in. 
Don't forget to like and subscribe. (This is me being part of the problem and not the solution). 
@Tubacabra Everyone here is having an honest conversation about things that can be improved, as well as fellow creators' concerns about the Forum and Tapas. And you're here dropping your link and tagging people to subscribe to your story, which is out of place in this thread since it is not a promotion. Please learn how to read the atmosphere and respect your fellow Tapas creators. This will not take you anywhere; you will just be looked at as a sore thump.
Iâm trying to find that balance between promoting my novel but not spamming my novel in every promotional thread that I see.
Sub 4 sub seems like the easy choice but I want something better.
@itsforevermonday Believe me, I have plenty of experience being looked at as a "sore thump". That was basically my social position in highschool. Thanks for bringing back some bad memories! 
As for the "disrespect" that I'm showing to my fellow creators, it was purely meant to be a joke. I apologize if I offended you, but I also don't see anything wrong with me including a link to my story as a footnote. I never told the link to be that big...
Nevertheless, I thank you for your input, I need as much info as I can get. @NickRowler and @abigaillmartin
Wishing everyone here the best of luck! ď¸
