So you just strike a deal with this publisher about your comics

[thecokers]

I think it depends on the editor, and your valuation of their abilities. If they come out and say "well this isn't marketable enough," then why are they interested in your book in the first place?

The few editors I've come across in the professional comics industry have been razor sharp when it comes to feedback, and the book we were working on benefited from their contribution.

[elixiadragmire]

See, thats the type of editor I CRAVE for. So far I'm using my mate who writers for a hobby for grammar, dialogue check up, plot and setting check up. as for marketing .... were both clueless.

[crabman21]

Go for it!!!!! But you should try to negotiate...

[thecokers]

sing my mate who writers for a hobby for grammar, dialogue check up, plot and setting check up. as for marketing .... were both

Yeah, one thing I'll say is that I gained a new respect for the role of the editor. You kinda have to be a slave to story, understand structure, pacing, motivation. As a writer, you can get lost in characters, beats, interchanges. The editor looks at things and can decide that scene you love? Story might be better without it. A good editor knows his or her job is to figure out what's best for the story YOU want to tell, not the story they think should be told.

[SpavVy]

I wouldn't want to work for a publisher especially if the editor told me to do all of that, I like being my own boss. If they told me to do that with Soul Ascendance then let's just say I'd give them the finger and walk out. Soul Ascendance is my baby, NOBODY messes with my baby.
And for them to tell me that the location of my story isn't exotic enough would piss me off beyond belief as well.

1:15 is probably how I'd make my exit from the building.

[eagle1]

Hhmmm....With a few notable exceptions, most of you seem to have reservations about this. From this, I gather that a career in comics is not a high priority? This is a hobby?
By the way, the reactions within this thread are part of why I don't do critiques unless someone asks me to. Too many people consider their comic to be their child, and are not in a place to listen to any bad comment, no matter how many good comments come with it.
Me, I have worked with too many editors (good and bad) and have a professional editor who looks over my stuff as a personal favour, and some of the edits are ruthless. I am of the opinion that if I feel stongly about something I have written, that is probably the piece of mine that needs the MOST editing, since I'll be unable to do it objectively.
And if there is money on the table, I keep my ego outside the door. It doesn't understand money very well, nor is it the one that goes hungry if it convinces me to walk.

And for the counter to the argument, in this day of the internet (and the things I see coming next in comics), the money has to be good to beat the potential for a growing webcomic.

Eagle
(No intention of taking my stuff to a publisher, but if they come to me...)

[elixiadragmire]

To a point I agree when its job, its different. I've been paid to do some work that I'm not 'pumped' about I have a autopilot and system for my 9 to 5 illustration. Doing creative stuff outside and inside of work (r&d!) helps.

My issue IF the change are so sweeping that its changes setting, genres and characters, that's not an edit that a new story.

I think you need a good repor with an editor for it be effective otherwise its waste of everyone's time, and I've had that happen far too many times with clients and project managers who don't communicate and don't understand what is requested or aren't willing to cooperate

[eagle1]

My issue IF the change are so sweeping that its changes setting, genres and characters, that's not an edit that a new story.

I had one story get published twice since the first time the editor had so many changes that I only needed to make a few more to the original for it to be a different story. Stuck an ending on it that I had thought about doing in the first place, and started submitting it again.
To my mind, the editor's job is to know what their readers want, and one of the constant comments/complaints that the pro comic creators talk about is the huge number of edits at the big comic companies. It's part of the job, and I discovered that when I was writing fiction and non-fiction for both gaming magazines and sci-fi/fantasy.
I'm a web developer now, and it's even more infuriating when the person telling you they want it changed is the client who doesn't know anything about the business of web marketing, but there they are, making you do re-writes to make the product worse than it was. At least with an editor, they presumably have boatloads more experience (and a lot of them are writers/artists themselves) than you do.
There is the very good question that someone further up the thread asked: If they wanted the property, why are they wanting changes? I leave that one as an intellectual exercise.

Eagle
(I hate editors, but I understand why they exist)

[guilhermecahu]

That's not a slight change, that's actually a totally new comic.

[jessicasurline]

If its a comic Im not emotionally invested in then I would accept making some changes to have it sell. However, I would most likely walk away because of my morals and feelings about business ethics.

[elixiadragmire]

well I'd like an editor that would help me with the excutution and style of the story its self, I've edited, deleted, tweaked and re-envoked plot points plenty of times to try and best tell the story. The framing and viewing station of the story I'm all ears to hear improvements on, even better broken down critque of "this doesnt work because, try this way instead."

Thou changing a story so much .... that you can submit it twice herald that the edit were too far. YES the story worked and YES it was now publishable (in the eyes of the editor) but .... that sounds like a lot of running in circles to essentialy just start from scratch. If you cant see any of the orginal draft in it, thats a lot of editing that been done, a lot of man hours rather expensive if to tot up that price ... did the editor do they're job properly and effectively? Or did they naff too much? As an artist there are some image you work on and edit and edit and edit and they nothing like the orginal sketch or even I just didnt leave it alone and overworked to the point i actually ruin it. It was fine 4 hours ago but noooooooooooo I kept poking it and now it ruined. That must happen in all creative professions too

Sorry I rabbled

[studiostepone]

i experienced that too!!
and i regret it... the problem is...i has a good chance to ruin your early concept!!
and it could possibly degrade your works....
i say submit if you don't have any more options..but fight for it as well!! do your best to voice your mind and creativity!!
and good luck my friend

[eagle1]

Thou changing a story so much .... that you can submit it twice herald that the edit were too far. YES the story worked and YES it was now publishable (in the eyes of the editor) but .... that sounds like a lot of running in circles to essentialy just start from scratch. If you cant see any of the orginal draft in it, thats a lot of editing that been done, a lot of man hours rather expensive if to tot up that price ... did the editor do they're job properly and effectively?

hehehehe...Yeah, the problem was I was being paid by the word, not the hour. Freelance writers don't get hourly wages. For that matter, the current going rates for comic pages aren't that different. It ranges from $50-$300 for a penciled page depending upon the publisher and the fame (not the ability) of the artist. A page of script goes from $50-$200 based on the same two arbitrary criteria. For that, you wind up getting edited.
Getting picked up as an imprint can get you out of having to have your work edited. Frankly, a lot of webcomics that I have seen could use a good editor, but that's a subject for another thread.

Eagle
(I brought my Editor with me. She's harsh on me at times, but every creator needs that)

[elixiadragmire]

yes but was the editor on a salalry? How much of his publishers time and money was he draining? and by the by if the editor has to edit a story out of existance into another story, perphaps THAT editor wasn't best suited for that story clearly. especially if the orginal story managed to get publish again but i assume with less edits?

AND of course your the one doing all the work on the re-write to dance to the editors tune with these moving goal posts .... that editor has some pretty sloppy shoulders. This really sounds like a bad editor, one that isnt very effective and reinforces the stereotype of beuing meddlesome.

[eagle1]

I am not disagreeing with you. For the most part, I hate editors. Now, those were days when I thought I was a hot writer. I look back on the stories that I wrote back then, and cringe. I mean cringe. During that whole period when I was trying to break into writing, I wrote exactly one story that got published that I will actually claim. It was published in a paperback anthology, and was a Torg/Paranoia crossover story that was basically paid fanfic.
After that, I sat down and actually studied writing. I started learning why things work, and the techniques instead of just going with what felt right. My writing is ten times better now, but I now realise how much better a lot of other people's writing is. It helped me get a better understanding, not just of writing, but of reading.
I wish that some of those editors that slapped my early stories around had taken the time to tell me WHY they were doing so, but in all honesty, it was partially my own fault. I was approaching them as a working writer, when the truth was, I knew nothing of my craft. I had not bothered (I don't need that stuff!) to learn the basics, the techniques, and the art of writing.

Editors suck. They are paid to tell you where you screwed up. Nobody likes hearing that (although these days I actually crave critiques...apparently age has turned me masochist) especially when an editor is not going to bother giving you the 'Critique Sandwich', but just the stuff that he feels needs changing.

On the subject of the thread, where all of this applies is this. If your ego is tied up in your comic, do not submit it to a publisher. THERE WILL BE CHANGES! Some of those changes are likely to be major. Most of them are likely to be for the better. You are not going to agree with that, since your ego and emotions are involved.
Either only submit things you don't care about, or learn to leave the ego outside the door. That probably sounds a lot harsher than I am meaning it, but it's a simple truth, and those are never kind. While I have seen some bad editors, for the most part they are people who got that job because they know the readership, the market, and the standards of the publisher. They should be hated, since they are changing your creation, but they should be listened to, since their goal is to make it better.

Eagle
(And I still hate editors...Well, all but 1)

[eagle1]

Look, I'm replying to my own post!

I felt that something needed to be added on Ego.

Every creator has an ego. It's part of the makeup needed to be a creator. If you don't think you have one, then you should do some serious self-examination.

You have two forces within you affecting the creative process. The first is the ego, which says "What I have created is so wonderful that everyone needs to see it!". The second is the inferiority that says "This is trash, no one must ever see this, EVER!" These two forces are what drives you. This is the reason for the constant edits, the redraws, the eraser crumbs on the floor, the fact that all the paint is worn off your "Z" key. But in the end, you create, and when you put it out there, it's because the ego won over the inferiority. This is not a bad thing, it is a good thing.

The bad thing is when you let your ego start interfering with your rational thought on other subjects, such as business.

Eagle
(My ego and I are on speaking terms if we have an arbiter)

[fanyart]

That's what I always do!

[elixiadragmire]

oh no I know, in fact it sucks you HAD to deal with that TBH. I just wanted to make sure i had the ful sory on it. It just it winds me up when you get 'gatekeepers' like that.

I personally would treasure thou a 'good' editor but it seems in th e busy its a 50/50 chance to find one. The sheer fact you submitte dthe same story TWICE proofs just how hit and miss finding that balance

[paigelavoie]

For me personally, I think it would really depend on if I felt the changes would enhance the story or not. And how much passion I had for the original idea. Is this comic my "baby" or a newer comic that I feel could benefit from some tweaking? If it was a story I loved truly believed in, and the changes they wanted to make transformed it into something else entirely. I wouldn't do it.

But hey, that's one of the reasons I do web comics and self-publish. ^.^