Style or Substance? (+poll)

[DokiDokiTsuna]

• Style
• Substance
• Neither?

Show results

I didn't realize 'style over substance' was an actual thing until recently...now I finally have a name for my philosophy! ^^

I guess it's not actually my philosophy, though...it's more like a mode d'etre that keeps me sane. It's really hard to be lazy and a perfectionist at the same time: you get into these ruts where you feel like nothing is worth doing unless you can do it quickly and perfectly...and that's no way for an artist to be.

So rather than settle for 'less perfect', I throw accuracy out the window entirely (kind of). It's not that I don't pay attention to whether things are correct, it's that I choose to put most of my focus on whether things look good; whether they give off the right vibe. It's only after that that I clean up and try to make things sane. But anything that throws off the vibe, even if it's technically correct, is out. I'm a 2D artist; I get to do that. XD

Lately, I've been trying it with color schemes...up until a few months ago, I used to be very stringent with them: Each character would get a color palette with one set of normal colors and one set of shades, and that was it. No exceptions; no wiggle room. That way they'd always be 'accurately' colored.

But I actually really like playing with color, and I was looking at more vibrant comics to see how I could emulate them...and I found that most of these artists change color schemes all the time to suit the environment: warmer colors at sunset, cooler colors at night, darker shades and brighter highlights depending on the intensity of the light around them.

And at first I was like "well, who has time to make up 50 different color palettes for every character in every situation? Not me". And I rejected the idea...until I realized I didn't need to make palettes. I didn't need to plan it at all. I could just...change the colors IN the comic, whenever I felt like it...!

Revolutionary, right? ^^; But it actually has been, at least for me. Those days of simply throwing pre-determined colors on the page and dealing with it if they don't look quite right are over. If a panel needs another level of shading, I just add it. If a color isn't bright enough, even if it's just ONE color on ONE panel, I brighten it. If I want to use one sunset color scheme for one page and a completely different sunset color scheme for the next page, I do it. My art doesn't exist to serve the rules anymore; the rules exist (and bend as necessary) to serve my art.

TL;DR: Style has set me free~! But I guess I wonder what other people's take is on this issue. I don't even know what the 'Neither' option would mean, but there's a chance someone might tell me.

[colinmooredraws]

"well, who has time to make up 50 different color palettes for every character in every situation? Not me"

This is not a thing I have ever heard of, and if people really are doing it they're doing it wrong.

It sounds to me you're starting to explore something that actually has a name but you aren't quite understanding it completely: color theory.

What you're describing is the difference between local color and relative color. When creating a palette for a character, it should really only be in local color. The "true" color, the base for all situations or shading or lighting. IE a tree is green in standard daylight, but can shift to golden at sunset or black or blue at night.

I strongly advise researching and studying color theory before deciding to throw the "rules" out the window. It's not rules so much as it's about how color behaves and serves as a basis of how to manipulate colors to do what you want. And it's essentially what you're describing: changing the colors IN the comic. But you will produce far more dynamic and fun colors if you understand what governs colors rather than "whenever you feel like it."

Also I'm really unclear on how your text translates into style vs substance.

[rajillustration]

Color Theory is a wonderful and satisfying world. Once you realize that "holy hell, all color changes depending on the colors are next to it and what the lighting is," you start going mad with power. It's so fun. What's neat about comics in particular is that you can have way more space to experiment because it's an abstract medium anyway.

I wouldn't say that it's...lacking substance at all. In fact there's really not a place where you would use the same color in every single scene a character is in--even in animated movies, they change their colors depending on the lighting. Doing good color theory and changing the lighting from scene to scene takes a lot of skill and practice--like look at Into the Spiderverse, their palate is so diverse, but they keep it uniform at the same time. It's so hard to do, but so fun to look at.

What's important is to unify your palate so you don't get a rainbow mess, and that's done a lot through just getting a good 6th sense of what colors go where, but also using filter layers and gradients to bring it all back together. In fact, good color theory is using methods that are fairly restrictive--but look like you kind of just went wild. It's fun to study how other people did it.

Like was mentioned before, this is a good subject to study, I highly recommend reading up on "Color and Light" by James Gurney for some Galaxy brain color study. It's been out for a while so you'll probably find it at the library. That's where I found it.

[vothnthorvaldson]

For me it entirely depends on the project.
To the point I'm not sure what to add to that statement.

[sekabead]

Eh... I'm confused. I'd just rely on my gut instinct to color my drawing, then study color from photographs to improve my guess, rinse and repeat. Sometimes I'd just overlay something on top of another, see the resulting changes, and figure out the relationship like "oh this color mix this color become this color, oh in general bla bla bla". I don't want to memorize color theory like memorizing important dates in world history lesson hehe. I don't even draw clear line to segregate styles in my head e.g "this style 1 -> color A color B color C, this style 2 ->color A color D color E". I don't even know what I'm saying

So what is "substance" after all?

[colinmooredraws]

I don't want to memorize color theory like memorizing important dates in world history lesson

That's comparing apples and plywood. It's nothing alike in the least. You don't "memorize" color theory, you study it. Like anatomy, composition, perspective, etc. Or, for something outside of art, you don't memorize how to drive a car. It's a skill you learn.

[sekabead]

That's what I do.

But there are still people who want to enforce learning by memorizing color theory, like my art teacher in high school.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

This is not a thing I have ever heard of, and if people really are doing it they're doing it wrong.

It's not supposed to be...it was an example of the wrong thought process...

It sounds to me you're starting to explore something that actually has a name but you aren't quite understanding it completely: color theory.

I don't mean to snap, but...really? 'Starting to explore'?? Thanks, but I've known about color theory since I was in primary school, and I don't know how you think you can rate my 'understanding' or lack thereof on the subject when I haven't provided a single example of my work in this thread. T_T It looks to me like you're making a lot of assumptions...

And it's essentially what you're describing: changing the colors IN the comic. But you will produce far more dynamic and fun colors if you understand what governs colors rather than "whenever you feel like it."

...Yeah, I don't need to repeat myself.

Although, just for the future: did it ever occur to you that the parameters of "what I feel like" doing fit INSIDE of prior knowledge of color theory, and not outside in la-la-land? If not, it might be something to consider next time, before you decide that someone doesn't know what they're doing.

Also I'm really unclear on how your text translates into style vs substance.

As I understand it, the concept I based this thread on, 'style over substance', is just about having cool things happen with your work, not necessarily things that make perfect logical sense. Things like over-the-top anime battles or runway fashion design probably fit into the category of 'style over substance'.

But I think the philosophy can be applied to other things...dramatic lighting in a comic that realistically shouldn't be there, for instance. Or in writing, using unorthodox language or making up words to describe what the reader should see. These things are nonsensical on their own...but they can contribute to and enhance the overall style of a work that's not meant to be perfectly realistic in the first place.

[AVXP]

And here, I thought you were being clever and making a spin-off of one more silly thread.

As readers, which do you prefer: Art vs Story POLL

So you're saying style is - whatever looks good to you....ignore the "rules".
Then what is substance?

Make the colors match what they should look like according to the laws of physics or something?

Bah,
I did come across this tool/app and me thinks it's kinda cool.

Palette Wizard by SmallBigSquare

[OttoGruenwald]

The map is the territory and the style is the substance.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Then what is substance?

Make the colors match what they should look like according to the laws of physics or something?

Well, yeah. Because that's the opposite, right? Instead of playing with lighting to suit the mood of the scene, keep it consistent with the time of day and the angle of the sun. Basically, favor realism over imagination.

...Is it really that unclear? What did I say wrong? My original post makes perfect sense to me...

[AVXP]

Basically, favor realism over imagination.

Then you should have made that the title of the thread.
And not to be rude, but most if the works on here are comics.
Comics.
Comics.
99.9% of the stuff on here is already working from imagination.
Pushing your colors one way or the other is hardly enough to warrant a poll.

And so, I think you mean attention-to-detail,. not realism.
Attention to detail is making everything blue-leaning because it's nighttime.
Realism is studying a night scene and doing a true-representation.

Or least some kind of modeling when it comes to the replication or reproduction of a scene.

---

...Is it really that unclear? What did I say wrong? My original post makes perfect sense to me...
You come off to me as a great and deep thinker. You really start a lot of threads about random, idle thoughts.

But sometimes you reply as if you want an echo chamber and not really a discussion.
Or at least with anyone sharing a different opinion or slant

Like, I feel like I'm arguing with you and I don't know why. lol
It could just be me. Nevermind. Double lol

[monotone_ink]

Style because that's the only thing I can do

[Solias]

some times style is the substance and if you don't believe me go play any devil may cry game, every single one. 1, 3, 4, and 5 all phenomenal examples of style being substance. that why rule of cool is always king