Sub for Sub - It's become a bit of an issue

[Abel]

I agree with @GiveMeThatBread.

Sub4sub isn’t used for anything other than “get me to this number so I can unlock this” or “help me get more subs so it looks like I got them organically”. But, it serves no purpose other than getting someone to sub to your story—neither the sub or the sub is going to read or like or comment or keep up with each other, they’re just going to sub and move onto the next forum post.

“But, I’ve found some great series via sub4sub.”
So, start browsing more.

“I have no idea how to gain an audience if I don’t use sub4sub.”
Sub4sub are just the fleshy version of bots. They’re not an audience. When you sub4sub, read once to make your fellow sub happy, then never come back to it again until one of your asks “hey have you read my story lately?” and the other responses “I’m such a slow reader and I don’t have time and I’ll totally catch up” before ghosting each other again—that’s not a reader, it’s not the audience you’re seeking.

And there’s no better feeling than knowing a reader really truly loves your work.

Sub4sub is just a spam at this point and it’s the same people subbing to the same people subbing to the same people. And a majority of creators don’t vibe with sub4sub, we ignore it.

Produce, promote, and network. Research your audience. Save up for a bomb cover that doesn’t use AI. Save up or use a reliable editing program. Genuinely approach your fellow creators and befriend them, learn from each other. Be kind and not spammy.

You’ll never gain organic readers by clicking post and staring at your screen with your fingers crossed.

[atyezone]

Hi i get where you guys are coming from. I'm pretty new here and was releasing my comic on webtoon and participated in 2025's contest even with so many views and likes and supports still didn't enter the last round and i thought Tapas might see the efforts here because creators support each other here at least but now that option is going to get cancelled so i hope you guys at least show us a way to get the recognition for our work that we deserve. I dont even see any recommendations from indie creators anymore in this app and i want to make fresh and read fresh stories that aren't just popular from korean apps and etc.

[AliceTuinz]

I also used the forum to promote and checked a few sub4sub threads with the intention to create some conversation ( I always read at least a chapter and leave a comment if I sub to someone) but what I've seen is mostly a number of creators spamming to the point that it felt weird to post my own work there as it felt like adding to the spam rather than promotion.

I would love to see more involved ways of promoting work / connecting the community.

[VibrantFox]

While I tend to mostly just lurk the forums these days I'm among those who've muted the promo tab and have no issue with the banning or restricting of sub4sub posts. As plenty of folks have made clear the cons of the behavior far outweighs its benefits so consequences were due to follow (even if it's mostly bad actors).

I do agree with folks who've pointed out that while banning the posts here might not stop it from spreading elsewhere having pinned harsher rules may be enough to scare some folks into behaving better along with possibly encouraging the flagging of egregious spammers.

Something like a return of the promo mega-thread may help but maybe making it a monthly ordeal than one big thread; closing it at the end of the month and a limit to only posting once than daily spamming or creating duplicate threads (and flagging those who do). As for all other promo, creating stronger encouragement for making threads that lean towards discussion about story/writing/characters/world building/etc. but with that responsibility falling more on the user community whether that's pooling ideas to turn into weekly/monthly discussions threads or something like a question of the day.

That's like something I'd considered at one point just posting on my own was something akin to a forums "crash course" to go alongside the forums rules basically outlining basic etiquette and healthier forums habits since it's not really a thing. Coz [with no harm to folks who frequent s4s threads] i think it'd be far healthier to set habits like posting only once to a sub4sub thread but again focusing more on those that encourage real discussion than just dropping a link (maybe with a blurb if we're lucky) and dipping. There's also been a severe lack of folks putting to use user bios and having links to their work there as opposed to tacking it on to every reply they post to a forum thread whether it was intended for promo or not.

Coz like I do understand the ongoing struggle community comics have with visibility but the s4s culture is not helping or operating as a solution in the way it was originally intended which is sharing works and engaging only if genuinely interested, not forcing people to interact, botting to inflate numbers or aggro spamming any and every promo thread. That kind of behavior (among other things) is why i don't really bother with the forums much less feel encouraged to interact with new comics/novels.

So if a compromise can be found and forum goers actually comply and behave it'd be cool but if it comes down to banning it is what it is ʅ ( ․ ⤙ ․) ʃ

[summergirl455]

I've decided to limit my posting of sub-for-sub threads, as some of them could be bots attempting to subscribe to your series and subsequently flagged from the platform.

[rasteranime]

Alright,

My view point is understanding why sub4sub culture exists here in the first place...
Problem here lies in Tapas having two sets of growth model...

1. There's Comics and Novels section affiliated to Tapas Media which has some sort contracts with these artists and writers.

2. And there's Community tab section where Indie Creators content are seen, where creators are hoping there work would get noticed and algorithm pushes it.
   But in order for Indie Creators to get their work recognized, the Tapas ain't pushing the newly posted Content by new signee who just onboarded platform, but rather some old Indie Creators Content with millions of views under its title... and it is showing like as "recommendation" or "You may also like this"..

I am like I just got here why you showing me some BL comics or some stuff I like... I haven't seen anything or liked anything yet.. (when I had clearly selected slice of life category as my preferred choice on platform)
At first I thought...well ok may be this how this webcomic platform operates for comics and novels stuff...

Then there was flood of Tapas affiliated content in my inbox..

By this time it was all too apparent...

Tapas was pushing its own content and other Indie creators content as recommendations which it thinks has best probability of gaining more engagement and raking in more ad revenues for itself and hopefully some for the Indie creators...

I was like fine... what other options does this platform has and oh boy this where the Tapas Forums comes into picture..

Signing into forums... I came across all these pro artists in either off topic or questions or Art/comics section... and I am like wow these art works are amazing why isn't it showing up in community tab section or recommendation...and also I came across new artists or writers and other amateur artist myself included with little to no views... and there in promotions thread was my first experience of sub4sub culture at that time didn't give much thought to it did it anyways..

Full disclosure I created a topic on sub4sub myself long ago... the curiosity piqued in me to see what unlocking that 100 sub milestone would do... and result is it has no effect...

I feel the only thing sub4sub & like/like did was mess up the algorithm, a algorithm designed by Tapas Media which was recommending content what it thinks is the best bet for itself (the affiliate tab section and Indie Creators content which had gained significant traction) and pushing it on as recommendations for new creators who onboarded it.

Imagine if such sort of tailored specific algorithm was created by YouTube oh boy... and while on same context look at YouTube, they even removed the trending button and now content is more of a user personalized experience and it recommends new content related users search history...

Do you see where I am getting at... You either revamp the algorithm where it creates a even level playing field for everybody.. And not where Tapas see it as two different categories of growth model such as affiliate and Indie creators but rather whole thing simply as content...

I think if you guys did this there wouldn't be even the need for the existence of this Forum as well... new contents are recommended based user experience hence there wouldn't be even any need of promoting outside the scope of Tapas App itself... You could save your resources and deploy your developers to focus on other backend operations. (I also understand comics has become highly fragmented and oversaturated market but this where user search history comes into play doesn't it...)

Also I feel your ranking systems are once again has flawed logic, its like once again you want cherry pick something or other content and decide for others what content they might like... why perpetuate same problem of platform again and again... you either rely on your algorithm to do the work for you or you don't.

As far as your original question I think its a futile exercise... reason being if you ban sub4sub in promotions thread as many have already mentioned above its going trickle into other categories or private messages...and lets say you ban it its gonna create a avalanche of promotion threads.. right now as it is Forums promotions thread is basically a spam... (no one pays any notice to it)

My honest request is you revamp your algorithm on main Tapas site where it creates level playing for everybody... I feel at its core this will take care of new creator visibility and engagement issues... (also with no views and engagement I think it can act as feedback to creator themselves who can change the direction of their content and see what works and what doesn't)

This just my assessment as a Reader and as creator on this platform for the past 2 years... I may be wrong on this algorithm thing.. I wonder how other Indie creators feel about this algorithm.

[GamerPrincessXI]

I've been gone from Tapas Forum sooo long....When did you get a promotion....

[GarzaGoose]

I never claimed to not participate in the threads themselves. Go ahead and look for my contributions. If you read my post above, I specifically mention that I don't like participating in them, never claimed I didn't.

My last post was a cry for attention as I'm returning to the platform. I don't spam weekly, daily even for attention because I dislike it.

Forgive me for bumping the thread, I didn't know a singular post out of hundreds was such a big deal. There are so many creators on here uploading posts DAILY, sometimes multiple times per day, stuffing the forum.

There is some harshness deserved, but then again maybe I should completely stop visiting the forum. Anything that is slightly bitter gets taken in such a negative light.

[bumblebeelz]

To add to the opinions, I'd be fine with S4S being done away with. I think the negatives far outweigh the positives.

[VibrantFox]

The tapas creator community has shared thoughts on the algorithms of the main site pretty often even going so far as to measure the functions of certain metrics way back when the super science category was a thing here on the forums. So while i'm sure lots of folks would agree that a structure change on that front would be useful tapas still has to prioritize being able to fund itself so that it can continue to function, at the end of the day it is a business

but this is the reason why there's such strong push for creators to network and promote not just on the forums but social media or in person creative communities. you gotta talk about your work and share it widely to get eyes on it and that goes for posting on any platform regardless of the kind of content you're making.

this is also the reason why i wish people would remember the original purpose of the forums was not and is not solely to promote ones work but to engage and interact with the wider creator community on tapas. we used to talk shop, share feedback and have conversations about our process, ideas, interests and other things. it was a community thing.

like yes people are seeking visibility and to have eyes on their work and thats fine but there's also a need to understand natural networking than the current s4s culture and i'm saying this as a long time member of the community even if my activity has dwindled drastically. like the big reason for people disliking s4s has been stated repeatedly across a number of threads on here in that it often leads to disingenuous connection and readers who may not even be engaging with the work beyond just meeting a sub/like quota agreement than actually consuming and enjoying the work

and i'll add this isn't a dig at you or anyone else who takes part in s4s but it's really just not how to go about growing online :[

[Maki-08]

Has anyone heard of the 90-9-1 principal (or the 1% rule)? It’s a concept in internet engagement that 90% consume content (lurking, reading comments), 9% engage with content (commenting), and 1% actively create content. From what I’ve seen in Forum, removing sub4sub is probably the best option since those that engage in that promotion category are the top 1% of the top 1% of all Tapas users. Terrible numbers if your goal is to advertise your work. Focusing more energy in breaking the perception that Community novels and graphic novels are low quality is a more effective long-term strategy. I would encourage creators to take full advantage of the Review subforum and expand the Writing subforum into further subordinate categories, such as character development, foreshadowing, pacing, etc. Additionally, publishing a style guide would also be useful, especially for new creators.

[EncryptedWriting]

The paragraph on the originality of the forums makes me a little sad. I came here in 2021/22 (maybe a little earlier?). It really was a great community. It still is but I feel like the meaning has taken a hit. I know a lot of folks back then lurk about, but it feels like it is a little of a graveyard.

[VibrantFox]

it's honestly been one of the biggest blows for me coming all the way from 2015/16 and there's obvious craving for that active community and those kind of discussions it's just creating them and keeping them alive u_u

---

on this note similarly but seperately

I would encourage creators to take full advantage of the Review subforum and expand the Writing subforum into further subordinate categories, such as character development, foreshadowing, pacing, etc. Additionally, publishing a style guide would also be useful, especially for new creators.

i've been seeing more folks using the review category but i've not engaged enough to know if it's being done in genuine for feedback or just an alternative means to try to promote outside the promo category

i do agree tho that these kinds of topics on improving craft would be great as it reminds me of the 'nitty gritty tips' threads that used to be pretty poppin back around 2019-2020 and similar discussions. tho my only meh would be a style guide since i think the best format would be something that would help folks to polish their style and improve technically than just striving towards 'popular mainstream marketable artstyles', not to shade the current popular styles but i yearn for the variety of the early days [lets get weird wacky and experimental again yknow]

honestly tempted to at the least just get a thread going for people to share potential discussion topics that could be put up over time. that way everyone at least stars getting ideas pooled and we can find what folks are most eager to cover

[Maki-08]

A style guide has nothing to do with art style. It’s a guide on how written work should be formatted, such as dialogue (whether punctuation is placed before or after quotation marks, and whether to use single or double quotation marks); how to use em- and en-dashes; and how to convey a time skip (whether to use an ellipsis (* * *) or a two-line-break between sections); etc. Basically, it’s a how-to guide in the technical aspects of writing and formatting so that the presentation of published material stays consistent.

[VibrantFox]

ak okie dokie! comic-er so learning a new term but thanks for explaining

[justanothernerdling]

I agree, sub4sub has taken over, to the point where I feel that it has become the norm on the forums. I used to join promo threads, but eventually, the flood of S4S made the forums tedious terrain to tread.

S4S, unless you do it early to maybe gaim a reader or two as you both start on your writing journeys, simply inflates sub count, without it resulting in more readers. Lets face it, nobody can keep up with every comic/novel they sub to, much less if they're collecting subs by trading links like pokemon cards. And, well, the algorithm dislikes dead subs. Thats VERY clear.

I understand that the internet's functionality promotes that "big numbers = good", but why have 1000 subs if none of the subs read the work?

A lot of us worked hard to get to where we are, and are still working to get further. Sub4sub feels like a cheat code to win an imaginary race.

That being said, I think it should be limited, maybe somehow (idk how logistics can work on this) to people under 25 subs, to get that inital community feeling that is so important on social media!

HOWEVER! I think it needs to be banned during contests. Especially if follower numbers are taken into account again. Thats just cheating.

Theres nothing wrong wjth making buddies here/on discord and exhanging links! I just dislike the "pokemon card effect" that S4S forums seem to so often have.

[concentratedmen]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[Abel]

[shriraa.sha]

Similar to many others, I did find sub-4-sub help boost my work at its early stage as well as assist with finding true gems and other unique takes throughout this platform (especially with novels, which some are not promoted as much on site) While, granted it has been exceeding to be out of hand, outright banning might not be the best way to go- mostly for new creators who need a start-up as I've found my best and consistent readers from sub-4sub personally. Maybe a restriction of some sort would be a way to go instead, like once a week/day or something similar.

[simpleSH29]

If you're not going to ban sub4sub, then moderate it. Create a master thread and open it once a month or every other week. The sub4sub threads have gotten out of control, and it's usually the same people creating new ones or replying to old ones to give them a boost.