Surprise LGBT characters

[AWFrasier]

you warn them by leaving hits inside the story, you foreshadow it, even something as simple as the character looking at the other sex or something else. if readers don't see it coming or can't go back and reread the comic and find hints of it, then you are doing it wrong.Or at least that my writing philosophy

A lot of readers are very willing to overlook anything queer until they no longer can't. (Like when the characters finally kiss) Until then they're just super duper close friends. Not even kidding, it's a pretty annoying issue and it makes it hard to make content with queer characters because one side will continue to say it's too explicit - another will say it's not explicit enough.

Don't mean to say the romance itself is the issue. as ive said some of the romance is quite good and i do enjoy it. but something about multiple characters being stated to be LGBT suddenly in succession makes it seem cheap.

We travel in packs. Not even gonna lie, we do. The chances of more than one person in a group being queer is a lot bigger than there being just one. It's not just a safety thing, it's a comfort thing. The queer experience comes with a lot of added things, both good and bad, and being around other people who just understand without having to have it explained is so comforting.

As a queer person, I'd find it more weird for a queer character to only hang out with cis/hets and never mingle with other queer peeps. It must be very very lonely. I know it has been for me.

[KRWright]

SURPRISE BITCHES IM GAY

But also - this is why I make damn sure people know the characters are LGBTQ because anyone who is going to be bothered by it isn’t my target audience.

[baasinsimple]

Dude, I'm pretty sure they're not homophobic, they're boggled by the lack of build up. That's just bad writing.

[baasinsimple]

People are talking about "Warning their readers" or whatever, but that's not what your doing. It's called build up. It's a basic literary method used by literally everyone. It helps establish continuity for your story. It's like ya'll are completely ignoring that what @Inspector_Spinda is probably bothered by is how cheap a sudden development like that feels.
The Idea of surprise romances in general, straight or otherwise is stupid. You know what a lack a build up is called? Amateurish writing. You plant seeds throughout the story, emotionally investing people in this character, and that means every part of this character. You do it before it's relevant so people know that this is an element from the get go that's going to be important to the character. Honestly if something like that isn't planned in the story, and wasn't intended in the first place,(thematically, romantically or otherwise) it's just pandering. Kind of like how shounen gag manga from the 80s started copying Fist of The North Star because they saw how popular it was
.
Like, people, read a book and look at how every element of the story is built up towards the climax. I'm kind of disappointed some of you guys didn't figure out sooner that this is more than applicable towards just about everything in the story and how a surprise reveal of any kind that isn't well constructed years later after the run starts can actually just damage the quality of a story. Cause I know a lot of people on this thread are smarter than that.

[TAMAnnoying]

I hear people complain about it, regardless if it’s cishet or not. It’s one of the most notorious ways to ruin a story out there, yet so many bad writers keep doing it

Oki guys!!! Let’s talk about the most recent “cis” Pairing our their that got WAY more backlash then deserved (cause the movie was already kind of trash)

https://hitek.fr/img/up_o/98197361/hitek_1918bb516f08a561c5cb3539c74b3b4d_1560418615.jpeg

Why do people hat black widow and hulk????

Is it cause all of the people who like these movies are gay and they feel like their LGTB movies are shoving in Straight representation?? Or is it cause it happened at random with NO buildup and the only build up anyone ever go for being in a relationship was cap and widow?

It’s cause everyone is upset that it happened compleatly out of no where!

As readers/watchers we like it when the stories allow us to figure things out- we like hits we like a little bit of a puzzle box. Literally the only reason these two started dating was cause it was >subversive< they wanted to surprise the audience cause most comic book fans know widow and cap got a thing going on.

So yeah..... people got fucking upset and it was the only thing people would complain about for being “bad” for two damn years (even tho the rest of the movie is also kind of poo but nah it’s JUST the shitty romance that had no reason to exisit)

Sorry anger about age of ultron Over- point is most people don’t hate LGBT rep cause it’s LGBT they hate it cause it’s pandering and feels forced- just like most people hate when a Cis relationship happens out of no where and feels force even tho the main female/male character seemed perfectly happy without a love interest.

[FenneFox]

I'd argue the issue, as you pointed out, is how it's brought up. In the way your mentioning, how they just suddenly appear around page 200 with little to no prefacing, I'd argue it seems more like pandering. Frankly, I'd say it's annoying no matter whether they are LGBT or not. At the very least, begin some build up before rushing into the relationship, even if it isn't from the beginning, as a good relationship could make for good entertainment.

[Jenny-Toons]

Basically this. Whether or not it's LGBT or straight isn't the point. It's how phoned in it is.

Bleach for example -- Ichigo ended up marrying Orihime with no real build up to that ever happening on his end. Yeah, she loved him romantically, but we barely saw anything similar from him. But apparently him blushing around her is enough to say he loved her.

It's stupid.

Personally, you ought to change this topic to "Stupid Last Minute Romances".

Because that's essentially what this topic is, and stories with both LGBT and/or straight MCs suffer from this.

It ain't just LGBT -- It just feels like that because more stories with LGBT characters have been more frequent now and suffer from this bad writing. But this has been happening for a while.

If romance wasn't clued in from the bulk of the story, and there's no build up, don't try to include it now.

[33rdCenturyCaveman]

It not help that in real life, romance am not the epic struggle that it is in fiction. If two people am compatible it happen quite easily. There am no war of opposites, no external circumstances to overcome. Like, from perspective of our coworkers, ex and I suddenly became couple with no buildup whatsoever.

[IdiotWithPencil]

honestly i think maybe the romance genre may be accurate because i can't think of one couple i know in real life that doesn't drive each other insane. T_T it's the worst and exhausting. i think ill just read some good romance and go with my gut

well if you are open to a recommendation, the only romance I have ever seen that dose it kind of right is hazy London.
there are no crazy love triangles or dramatically over the top reveals it's just two people having to deal with relationship problems
and conveniently it's about gay couples

[IdiotWithPencil]

Okay so.... I find it interesting that this subject is brought up for LGBT relationships but apparently nobody has noticed that the straight version of this has been happening for years.

oh, we have noticed, we have talked to death about it, the problem I have seen with the LGBT one is that the moment somebody tries to point out it's phoned in or seems badly handled, people come out to defend it or to dismiss the OP as having problems with gays. just look at this thread for an example.

[33rdCenturyCaveman]

Something me noticed about LGBT community. Many members of said community have similar style of argument centered around defending self and self's right to exist. This not bad, but argument style not work for other purposes.

Me never ask anyone to justify who they are. But me do sometimes ask them to justify their actions.

[Jenny-Toons]

Which is why it's just better to talk about the bad romance tropes in general.

Honestly, a lot of the threads that do point out the bad romance writing in LGBT seem to do it without referring back to the bad writing centering on straight romances that get pulled outta nowhere.

It might not be intentional, but it reads that way. Ans we all know Tone doesn't translate that well with online foruns....for some reason?

For me, ey -- it's just bad writing all around. If I can see it when Troy and Mike get together, I can see it when Lucy and Brad get together and vice versa.

It would probably get rid of that derailed convo by going "I notice this in straight romances, and now it's latching onto LGBT romances. What gives??" Cuz, y'know -- good readers are able to see patterns and all that jazz or whatever.

[IdiotWithPencil]

Honestly, a lot of the threads that do point out the bad romance writing in LGBT seem to do it without referring back to the bad writing centering on straight romances that get pulled outta nowhere.

oh, I get that and agree 100%, I try my best to not talk like the Lgbt are the only ones who suffer from this, that's why I speak in general terms and reference my disdain for the troupe in all aspects, be it gay or otherwise.

I mean the only ones making it specifically about lgbt are the people defending it, in this thread anyways don't know outside threads if that is the case. Or maybe not who knows

[AWFrasier]

I mean the only ones making it specifically about lgbt are the people defending it, in this thread anyways don't know outside threads if that is the case. Or maybe not who knows

I meeeaaannn... The title and the OP specifically made it about LGBTQ+ characters. It's literally titled "Surprise LGBT characters"

Can't really claim it's people defending it, who made it about LGBTQ+ characters when this thread was specifically made to be about that.

[Jenny-Toons]

Yeah, which is why I'm all about just laying all of your cards out on the table when posting.

You can never be too overly detailed and can never overstress your point. Use bolded words if you gotta. Like me.

My posts might be long, but dammit, you know what I'm saying in the end.

Less about offending anyone and more about not having people put words in my mouth

[IdiotWithPencil]

I meeeaaannn... The title and the OP specifically made it about LGBTQ+ characters. It's literally titled "Surprise LGBT characters"

Can't really claim it's people defending made it about LGBTQ+ characters when this thread was specifically made to be about that.

true, but most have been telling op his problem isn't that there are LGBT characters, the problem they have is that the writing was sloppy and phoned it in.

I mean just because the headline reads one thing doesn't mean the conversation is the same, or follows the original spirit.

I guess what I'm saying is, the only people who are claming this is and LGBT issue and not a general issue are thoose that are defending the inclusion of the LGBTQ character without reading that it was sloppily introduced. At least in this thread anyways.

but we are getting away from the topic sol let's end it here, ok?

[IdiotWithPencil]

Less about offending anyone and more about not having people put words in my mouth

been there made done that, and frankly don't care for it =/

[NickRowler]

I think the reason people seem to defending the LGBT aspect is that our society is ver critical of LGBT romance and it is super common to claim that it is phoned in and pandering even when it is not.

And even if an author adds build up or hints, there are also people who disregards them and claim that people who spotted them are just crack shippers.

Then there is issues with people saying "She can't be a lesbian, she dated guys in high school." or "He can't be bisexual, he's married to a woman." Which can make developing a character a bit harder.

It's hard to know if OP response is valid or not because we don't know what series they are talking about. But I think overall this is a romance issue, not an LGBT issue.

[Freemints30]

Hulk X Black widow....yeah screw it why not Mop X bucket. Really it is a bad writing issue, and everyone talks about unless they love the ship regardless of how poorly its shoehorned. I have seen a shit ton of complaints for Keylo X Rey in the last movie (and to the fans heh). To me LGBT romance should just be....romance, and romance without build up and out of no where is god awful.

[TAMAnnoying]

I think the problem is LGBT rep is becoming more of a fad then something people actually want to genuinely write about. I don’t rememebr many people getting upset when spoiler? Willow from Buffy became gay, it was handled with care and the writer actually wanted to explore this consept.

Nowadays the rep feels more like a fad (at least in some of the places I’ve seen it) I’ve also seen a bunch of places where it’s done well, but it should really only be defended if it’s done out of love rather then a veiw cont and that’s where a lot of people feel this represention is leading. Which is inheriently bad cause then you have the fetishizaion of LGTB being looked at as a good thing rather then problematic.