(T/F): 'Ignorance is the greatest threat to humanity'

[DokiDokiTsuna]

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Mmm, it's been a while since I had some good true/false thread inspiration~

I agree that ignorance is probably one of the greatest threats, but after the year we've had I think apathy is THE greatest threat.

We live in an age where we have near-instant access to an insane amount of information; the argument that 'ignorance is a choice' is more true than it has ever been. And yet...many of the societal problems we had 50 years ago either still exist, or have gotten worse.

And then, as psychology has shown, and as hopefully more people have learned by now, giving people information doesn't change their behavior if they don't want to change it. They'll either misinterpret the information to their tastes, or leave and seek out information that conforms more strongly to their beliefs.
Basically, no amount of education can make someone care about a problem if they just...don't.

This may be a bit morbid, but writing this made me think...if the coronavirus were just a couple percentage points more deadly, the US might have damn near wiped itself out by now. Or if there were some latent complication (and there may be; it's still too early to tell) that only took effect after people were done partying and running around and saying 'see, nothing happened'....we'd be done.

Not because people don't know, but because they don't care.

[Neverseen]

As a famous saying to put forward, ignorance is bliss. People have been ignorant forever. Most still are considering flat earthers still exist. Nobody can know everything and even if they do some things are depressing enough to prompt inaction. If I knew every starving child's name, I would probably go insane. Its not the greatest threat. Its inaction to learn more that is worse.

[therosesword]

Humanity is the greatest threat to humanity.

[VibrantFox]

Honestly both. Willful ignorance is essentially the same as apathy and as you said some people can be incredibly educated and still awful, heck some will take what they've learned only to weaponize it.

It's also worth considering that cruelty (or apathy) can be and is taught whether from an individual's youth, as they grow or just the environment they're in. They're raised to believe a certain thing and that whatever it is is truth.

Both are bad. Equally imo. and both have heavy consequences when not dealt with. There a number of things both play a major role in beyond just the virus or flat earthers and while i cant elaborate as well as I'd like the weight of each really has to be taken account.

[kitschensyngk]

The problem is not just that people are ignorant, it's that other people profit off that ignorance.
The more ignorant people are, the more easily they'll swallow anything they're told.
The less they know, the more likely they'll fall in line.

I think we're lucky that we now have someone in charge who will actually take this crisis seriously.

They say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I say that LITTLE KNOWLEDGE is a MORE dangerous thing.

[But_a_Jape]

I don't know if you're just being glib to take the piss out of the topic or if you're being sincere and just relying on everyone else to read more into your comment, because I was going to reply with the same sentence but with an explanation tacked on.

I don't know how you can say something like "ignorance" or "apathy" is the greatest threat to humanity because, in my view, those are just inherent qualities to being human. Yes, these qualities have done and will continue to do harm to us as a species but that just comes with the territory. Humans are ignorant. Humans are apathetic. Humans are a threat to humans.

What the hell does a completely non-ignorant or non-apathetic human even look like? Someone who knows everything about everything? Someone who deeply cares about every single problem? Can't imagine anyone like that.

[therosesword]

I don't know if you're just being glib to take the piss out of the topic or if you're being sincere and just relying on everyone else to read more into your comment, because I was going to reply with the same sentence but with an explanation tacked on.

I had no intention of taking the piss out of the topic. That's what I think, humanity is its own worst enemy. I felt no need to elaborate on the subject as it is bigger than it can be covered here.

I don't know how you can say something like "ignorance" or "apathy" is the greatest threat to humanity because, in my view, those are just inherent qualities to being human.

Is this directed at me because I haven't said anything other than my one sentence answer.

What the hell does a completely non-ignorant or non-apathetic human even look like?

Ummm, again, is this directed at me because I didn't say anything about that.

[But_a_Jape]

Those parts weren't directed at you, they're in response to the OP. I was saying I came into the topic to say "Humanity is the greatest threat to humanity" but you had already beaten me to the punch. If I had come in before you, the second and third paragraphs would still have been included in my comment.

[therosesword]

ah, okay. Might I request that you put their "@" name in there before the paragraphs so that they know you're responding to them and you can get a good discussion going? It kind of looks like the whole post is directed at me.

I have flying fingers (used to type 120 a minute) so I was swift off the mark there. apologies.

[Ordinaryaverageguy]

Since the question is so open-ended... The greatest threat to humanity isn't anything about us, like ignorance is. Think big... things like...
Giant meteor impacts such as caused the K/T boundary layer.
Massive solar flares (like in Niven's "Inconstant Moon").
Pandemics (this one was a fizzle compared to what it could've been).
The sun's eventual red-giant phase (a long time away, granted).
An unfortunately aimed gamma ray burster within our galaxy.

[nathanKmcwilliams]

I'll have to say 'False'
In my eyes right now, the most troubling thing is the politicians who use their connections in the media, big business, and big tech to bury impartial information and promote their agendas.

Here in the states, both sides do it, while one, in particular has just a bit more influence than the other. And so through their meddling have polarized viewpoints to such an extent, that outright hatred towards our fellow human beings is okay.

I hate being told that because I once thought Trump would help my country, I'm now just ignorant maybe even worse, I'm a hatemonger.

But really, the thing I think is the most dangerous to our society, is the narrative that anyone who has a different opinion that runs contrary to what is being spoon fed down from the almighty news corps is a conspiracy theorist.
I'm watching on in horror each new day as I realize that freedom of speech is being gutted. If you speak your opinion that is against the mainline stream, it's okay for people to treat you like a criminal.

A lot of stuff is broken in my country. I won't deny that. But...it just bothers me how much people who claim to be enlightened don't actually think for themselves anymore. They just regurgitate party lines because it's everywhere, you can't escape it. Big tech in particular pushes political narratives and silences dissenters with their 'fact checkers.'

At this point I'm just watching stuff go down and well there's literally nothing I can do about it. Sure I can speak my mind, but...I find myself stuck. What's the point in saying anything. People already have their minds made up. And in a lot of cases it was done for them already, because...they only react on emotions tied up in identity politics. And that's on both sides too. Politics today resembles a cult mentality.
Okay. I've rambled incoherently for long enough.

TLDR. Me think: Censorship bad. Free speech good. Politics is what's the biggest threat to humanity in my mind.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

I don't know how you can say something like "ignorance" or "apathy" is the greatest threat to humanity because, in my view, those are just inherent qualities to being human. Yes, these qualities have done and will continue to do harm to us as a species but that just comes with the territory. Humans are ignorant. Humans are apathetic. Humans are a threat to humans.

What the hell does a completely non-ignorant or non-apathetic human even look like? Someone who knows everything about everything? Someone who deeply cares about every single problem? Can't imagine anyone like that.

...So your fundamental argument is, because these behaviors are natural parts of ourselves, it doesn't make sense to call them threats...?

To that I would argue...well, what is any threat? The very concept of a threat is subjective...a threat to me may not be a threat to you. We call things threats to classify them from our own perspectives, not necessarily to label them as 'wrong' or to say that they're not allowed to exist anywhere.

And of course, there is also gray area in the act of classification...the fact that something is called a threat is not enough to assume what should be done with it, if anything.
For example, a bear coming across your campsite in the woods is generally considered a threat to your safety. Does that mean we want all bears in the woods to be eradicated? Does that mean you should kill the bear if you find yourself in that situation??

No and no. The bear may be a threat to you...but at the same time, we expect you to acknowledge that the bear also belongs in the woods. And for all the bear knows, you are a threat to it. Which is why we teach people methods for de-escalating the situation, or preventing it from occurring in the first place (don't leave your food/edible trash lying around, for instance).

So, to bring the metaphor full circle: if apathy is a 'threat', does that mean we would want a "completely non-apathetic human"? No. Apathy belongs in a brain as much as a bear belongs in the woods; the ability to put things out of your mind is kind of integral to staying...sane.

Nevertheless, we should be aware of its dangers, and prevent them from leading to dire consequences.

[amortelito]

Ignorance can and has caused a lot of damage. But I agree apathy, manipulation, lying and other characteristics within humans are more damaging.

Ignorance is "cured" by getting informed. But some people might never get that information if someone out there is manipulating facts or creating narratives. Ignorance is not automatically bad. Children are ignorant of many facts of life they are not ready to face. They might get harmed because of that ignorance but at the same time it allows them to develop without fear of what is coming.
As humans we are ignorant about the world and created methods to discover all we can.

[demikuro]

Lack of self awareness.

As animals, we develop insticts that helps us survive tangible threats, as humans, we develop an ego, which help us survive social threats.

The problem is that this thing called ego is not who you truly are but since is something that you've exercised and fed from before you started talking, you get attached to it.

Too attached.

You think that your identity depends on "this thing" that your ego sees as valuable and important and everything that seems like a thread to that "thing" is a thread to your survival.

People think that their identity is defined by things that are absolutely far away from what they truly are.

Human beings are not a bank account, are not a career, are not a family, are not a sexuality, are not a race, are not a religion, are not a piece of land, are not a country. (Those are things that you HAVE not ARE).

To realize that what you are, goes beyond all of that, that is called self-awareness.

Think of anything that humans have done to hurt themselves and you will realize that it is because they have identified too much with something that they are not.

[Puck]

I would say evolution.
We consume resources, we fight, we reproduce like all other animals do too.
Through evolution we are able to live longer, there are more of us and it will
not stop, we consume every resource and destroy the nature on this planet
and the only way it can be stopped is exctinction
Earth exists 4,5 billion of billion of years, we will destroy it for us in a very little fraction
of that time.
I don´t think it´s egoism, ignorance or anything, it´s in our nature like it´s in
the nature for every animal. The single human is not aware of that, maybe
when they are aware of it they don´t know how to change it or they don´t want to
as long as it works for them

[siluscomics]

I'd say the biggest social threat isn't so much ignorance itself, but wilful ignorance.

[TAMAnnoying]

Nah pretty sure like most things in this universe that would be entropy

[But_a_Jape]

In retrospect, I think my comment may have come off as a bit more confrontational than it should have been. My apologies, I got a bit wrapped up in rhetorical indulgence.

I don't disagree with you on the idea of what a "threat" is specifically, but when it comes to something that is the "greatest threat" I think that adds an extra level of subjectivity to disagree upon. When I'm thinking of ranking threats, I imagine a hierarchy of prioritization based on immediate danger and what actions you can take. Of course, this sort of thing will then depend on the scale of the subject and the timeframe you're examining (e.g. what is currently the greatest threat to an individual is different from what is the greatest threat to the city that individual lives in).

To use your bear analogy, if a camper comes across a mother bear with its cub, that bear is immediately that camper's greatest threat (and vice versa, from the bear's perspective). But does that mean bears are the greatest threat to campers as a whole? I wouldn't say so. And then if you were to expand from "campers" to "the forest" then absolutely not, because the bears are inherent to the forest (in my view).

So that's where I'm coming from when I dispute "ignorance" or "apathy" as the greatest threat to humanity. What sort of scale are we working with? Because "humanity" is a very nebulous term and can be incredibly large (both spatially and chronologically). I would even argue that when you're dealing with a scale at that level, so many factors end up overlapping that you can't tie it down to a singular "THE" greatest threat. Especially when you consider that "ignorance" and "apathy" aren't necessarily exclusive issues from one another and even feed into each other most of the time. In that sense, if you can figure out what sort of umbrella term would encompass both ignorance and apathy, then there's an argument in saying that is the greatest threat to humanity.

But again, we're going back to the problem of scale, because I would also argue when the scale you're discussing gets so big as to encompass what is essentially all of existence, it all leads to entropy of the universe (like @TAMAnnoying said, which is another comment which I'm unsure of whether or not it's more being glib or fully sincere).

[DokiDokiTsuna]

I would even argue that when you're dealing with a scale at that level, so many factors end up overlapping that you can't tie it down to a singular "THE" greatest threat.

That's kind of the point of these T/F topics...or, at least, the goal. ^^; If you think the statement itself is too illogical to engage with, that's a valid argument too; you don't have to agree with the premise.

To be honest, I think the original speaker was speaking of 'the greatest threat' as 'the greatest hindrance to societal progress', while I took it more as 'the thing most likely to drive us to extinction'.

While you seem to be extending 'us' to all of existence, and going from there...but that's what makes it interesting, right? Everyone has their own way of thinking about the issue.

[TAMAnnoying]

But again, we're going back to the problem of scale, because I would also argue when the scale you're discussing gets so big as to encompass what is essentially all of existence, it all leads to entropy of the universe (like @TAMAnnoying said, which is another comment which I'm unsure of whether or not it's more being glib or fully sincere).

Bit of both? I’m making small laughs at inevitable discourse at 7 in the morning none the less, it’s a serious problem one day nothing to be conserned of now. Tho I’m not an expert on it, my science friends and teachers often repeat that one day we will hit a wall when it comes to finding resources to power and energize ourselves or objects. Of course for us it’s on the same scale of the sun imploding- it will happen but there’s not much we can do about it in this current moment of time.