Jan 2020
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Jan 2020
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PotatoJuice
Jan '20

Considering that you only have access to the premium content until Tapas's license runs out for it (unless you copy it), $50 dollars does seem like a like compared to buying it outright, though I feel like it's expected that most people get their ink though watching ads, so your not actually paying for anything.

Also, the idea of reading one book (even a series) in ten years seems very slow, considering that Charles Dickens's book "Great Expectations", which was 544 pages when first published, was serialized fully in about 9 months

Maps
Jan '20

I’ve always thought tapas was generous with their pricing compared to other comic sites. Especially with the option to earn free ink.

HGohwell
Jan '20
PotatoJuice

I don't think you can judge current stories by Charles Dickens since all signs point to stories getting longer and longer (as, you know, more people have access to books and can actually read, funny that). And you say 10 years+ is a long time even for a series but, how long did Harry Potter books to all be published? First release was 1997, and the seventh book in 2007.

Webcomics/webnovels are a looooong game and I think anyone who doesn't understand that is in the wrong place, as I've mentioned. Maybe if the author decided to put it all together once the license runs out and release it as an actual book, it will cost $10 or so, who knows. But that is not the market place it's in or the format it's in so comparing it really is a false comparison.

Iris-Grimoire
Jan '20

What Maps said is a big thing. You get bonus ink for unlocking episodes through several means; it's not just paying real money upfront. And also, that money can be spent on any works, so even though you pay a lot for one novel or comic, you can also notice you don't like it and go read another one without needing to refund the whole product.

Not defending the costs or anything, just seeing how it might be justified.

LordVincent
Jan '20

Tapas has a character limit of 15k characters per episode. I don't read novels, but premiums usually stay on the longer end since they are paid content.

The average page of a book contains 3k characters.

This means one episode is 4-5 pages.
Let's make that 4.5 for our math.

4.5x600 = 2700 pages

The average novel is 250-300 pages long. Let's lend your point a bone and call it 300.

2700/300 = 9 books.

$50 for 9 books.

I guess what you should ask yourself is... is $5.50 a book really too much to ask?

KRWright
Jan '20

600 episodes of 800 words each (let’s say bottom end of Tapas recommended scale) is 480,000 words!

Say someone writes fast at 30wpm or 1,800 words an hour.

480,000/1,800 = Approx 266.5 hours * minimum wage of $15 = $4,000 to be made back for their labour.

Alternatively 480,000 words at the lowest of freelance writer rates of $0.02 per word = $9,600.

So really? $50 is a steal. Not to mention that industry standard is about 95k for a novel and so you’re getting about 5 novels for that as well.

nostalgicroxas
Jan '20

I think an important thing here is that some of the funds you're paying to a specific work actually goes to the creator all within Tapas's little system. You're also able to use said funds you've paid for / earned to give a bonus to content that is not premium. Like a certain novel that is not premium? You can just outright support them, so long as they have it unlocked, and give funds directly to the creator. We all say that we want hearts, and subs, and comments, but at the end of the day, a real sense of proof that someone likes the thing you did is that they're willing to shill for it.

jensrichard77In the making of Bunneh The Rabbit
Jan '20

Not sure if OP @data4doc even listening to any of what we say?

Just a rant for nothing.

Thank you all lovely Tapas friends for laying the details out on what to expect things to cost.

Let’s just move on and enjoy some good stories.

data4doc
Jan '20
Rosso

The novel is the The Beginning After the End, which really grabbed my interest.

Rosso, I'm like most other reporters who are left with a job in the ongoing newspaper apocalypse: underpaid. I just took a new job with a better periodical, where I now make only $10k less than the median income for my area, instead of $25k. I was shocked to learn last week that I now make more than my former editor at my old local daily.

Most on-the-ground writers of news don't make much. Many journalists leave the profession to become better paid advertising copywriters and marketing professional after an average of 10 years. $50 for a meal is something I budget for once a month. Granted, my reading budget is a bit more generous than my eating out budget, but like all budgets, it's limited. Reading is my only true indulgence. I don't go to movies unless someone pays me or lets me in for free in exchange for a review in print. I don't own a television so no, I don't pay for cable. Once in a blue moon, I rent a streaming video, like maybe once or twice a year.

As a reporter , I confess I am an expert at getting businesses to feed me for free. My favorite gig is being asked to be a food judge every year at the state fair.

  1. I came to Tapas because I wanted to monetarily support a web comic I found which was cross-posted for free on a manga aggregator. I believe in supporting writers and artists for their work. I bought ink specifically to support the web comic, and did so.

  2. Currently 80% of my professional writing can be read for free on ad-supported newspaper websites and news aggregators. I also have a book contract for a biography for someone who lived in Tudor England, one of my areas of expertise in academic research. But folks, those are different business models from sites like webtoon and manga aggregators and wuxia.com. There are varying business models for different genres and different media. As a professional writer, I familiar with almost all of them. My point is that a complete lite novel isekai-genre fantasy piece on the rest of the market place would be less than $50, depending on word count. Given how short the episodes are on Tapas for the premium content novel, I felt price gouged.

2a. I buy a lot of isekai and other lite novels on different platforms. I feel I have a good gauge of the market.

  1. I have no idea what the actual word count is on the novel but going rate on 70,000 to 400,000 fantasy books are $8 to $25, deadtreeware. Given an average of 400 to 600 words for the average episode (yes, I counted), 600 episodes would be around 360,000 words max.

3a. The book feels good enough to be sold on the commercial lite novel market. Maybe it should be.

  1. The insult on top of the injury was reading comments from other readers of the novel, saying they broke down and bought all the episodes for $15 in 2017. Pardon me for missing whatever magic window that was back them to buy in for that price. Running into such comments is not an incentive to drop more than $50. I love to read but the sticker shock here is rude because I can not help but compare it to other markets for similar products and to the price formerly available for this one book.
amberberry
Jan '20

You have to take into account that in 2017 there were a lot less chapters to buy. The novel is still ongoing and l think less (or so I didn't count episode by episode) than half of the story was published in 2017 so of course they would get the all episodes for lot cheaper than what people have to pay now.

silverraven0
Jan '20

Yeah, the series start at January 2017, and on December, there's 235 chapters. The series were at 690 atm, so basically there's no difference in pricing.

There's a way to read them for free, by waiting until tapas make the "a day to read for free" (or however it's campaigned), or waiting until it get discounted. I remember they discounted the price for this novel and comic before, so it's basically just waiting for tapas to do the discount. You can also get free chapters if they gave away some chapter tickets in the app.

data4doc
Jan '20

My last comment and then I'll going. I just dropped by Amazon. The Beginning After the End is available as a kindle book in six volumes, at $3 a volume. Average pages per volume 600.

I just bought them all.

phoenixrenaissance
Jan '20

I do wonder how much of a cut Amazon takes.

I personally don't mind paying more for content if more of it goes towards supporting the creator.

nostalgicroxas
Jan '20
phoenixrenaissance

A fair bit. I know from publishing on Lulu.com that to release on Amazon's marketplace is a ~$4 USD uptick in price, and to release at the same price on CreateSpace would mean about the same (to get the same cut myself). So either way my book would literally cost more to release on a physical book from Amazon, either market release or CreateSpace (amazon's publisher). I assumed that ratio is the same with eBook's but I haven't looked into either on Lulu or Amazon (to self-publish and sell on them).

MiniSheepPencil
Jan '20

I don't see why there is a reason to flip the tables over the fact that some platforms would choose to set the price a little higher than normal.
If we think about it, the demand for cheaper stuff will only damage the economy for writers overall as long as both writers AND publishers keep following such demands.
Since the wage for writing is bad, then maybe we as creators should really focus on finding a way to solve that issue, so that we don't end up having to cater to entitled broken pockets.

Sorry, not sorry =.=
I just can't stand the BS fact that artists HAS to degrade themself to dirt levels because "FREE STUFF" seems to be a trend.
I can only say that art is a luxury. We don't need it to survive like we need food and shelter. However we are addicted to it because it caters to our state-of-mind wellfare. It is used a coping mechanism for many and since many readers need it long before they turn into adults it is great to have a platform that caters to both perspectives.

Like Tapas and Webtoon, they both have free content AND premium stuff trying to balance out the unfair rates that many writers and publishers suffer from.

It's not a bad deal for a writer to have a platform where they can post their stuff, do some promotions to see if their work gains any interest. That said, you also don't need to wait for the public to hype up your stuff for it to turn into premium either; you can pitch your story to Tapas way before initial launch and see if they like it and want to add it to their premium section.

Regardless, I think that the OP lacked way too much information and insight to even embark on this journey and I would highly advise you to think it through once more before dropping your next opinion on the forum.

SynCypher
Jan '20
Penni

You're telling me! I used to come across articles by Dr. Clark; never imagined she was an Isekai fan, lol.

@data4doc
Doc, hah, what a place to run into you. I mean, I wouldn't begrudge you the enjoyment of Isekai or involvement with creatives, far from it. I'm just a little surprised is all, I actually got my hopes up that you'd be making like...I dunno a science oriented novel or comic but then you busted out of here so fast. I think it's nice that you wanted to support a creator, and you're well within your rights to like or dislike the price of something but, most of the people here aren't industry pros or on a beat, they're regular people who do what they love from their homes IF they get the chance in-between being told that art and writing aren't viable careers (that they must always be hobbies) and their work/school.

Doc, the folks here are good folks. If you don't like the pricing model I get it but, understand they're trying to eke out their living just as you already have, and Tapas is in a constant state of re-inventing. Like others have stated, it behaves more like a subscription service. Tapas may be more expensive than the Amazon alternative you found, yet it offers the artists and novelists those prices serve, some real scratch. Creatives who, if trying to get their foot in the door via the traditional industry, could be passed over in favor of what's tried-and-true.

These people are reaching for their dreams in a way that was unavailable to you back in the days of your proving grounds. As I won't begrudge you for disliking the price, don't begrudge them (and by extension: Tapas for providing the service) for using what's available to get their work out there and get paid for it. You've already stated in your previous post, that you were disgruntled by being underpaid:

So you put the tools of your trade to work for you by way of getting free food or movie tickets whenever you can barter your skills for them:

Why is it bad that these creatives took an option to solve those same problems (being underpaid and using their skills to their best effect), with what Tapas had to offer? Yes, it is more expensive for the person who buys the service, and if you don't like the service you definitely shouldn't purchase it (and by the gods no one should force you to do so). However, this pricing model in so far as we've been made aware by Tapas, is set up to facilitate the creatives in question by giving them more of what they need to get by, so they can continue to make the works that we love to read and they love to make.

Yes, the price here is fifty-dollars. Depending on your budget that can be a lot, but as you've already shown there are other places to gain said works for less that are readily available on Amazon and not being hidden. If there are those that decide to pay more via Tapas, even with Amazon as an option, as a way to show love and support the authors and artists that they enjoy in a more personal way, then what's wrong with that? Others have already shown how the pricing breaks down and works out so I won't go into all that. Even though you dislike the price consider the underpaid authors the service, in so far as I'm aware currently, helps. Authors who would've really struggled to get a footing in the industry considering how bottle-necked the process actually is with regards to published works.

(For anybody who may not know: Effectively an agent receives hundreds of queries, has to pick a handful, said agent also has a particular taste and uses that as a barometer for those they pick. Everyone else ends up in a slush-pile, skill be damned.) I rather like that I can come here to Tapas and read/support those who would otherwise be shuttered into a waste-bin somewhere because a single agent in the traditional scene has only so many open spaces and so much time to devote. You are well within your right to dislike the price and to find an alternative; everybody looks for deals and there's nothing wrong with that.

Just know that Tapas isn't part of the industry in the facet you've served and that things are different here. I wish you all the best in finding and supporting the work you enjoy in the way that is best for you and I hope you can empathize with the creatives here, who don't pay for cable, bike to work, and have to pay their bills and budget their outings as well.

Best of luck out there, Dr. Clark.

vfinnigan
Jan '20

My few paying gigs paid much more than that, and that was just for producing graphic novel scripts. However, given what life's thrown at me lately, I can't read a whole lot of premium content here. But there are tons of free novels and comics posted here, some of my own work included, and throwing a little ink at these creators is ridiculously cheap and easy.

KRWright
Jan '20

Yup. The majority of my work is free. Completely free. You may have to wait longer than patrons to read it, or it might be paywalled in the future - but generally you can read nearly everything I write on here with no upfront cost attached.

I worked out my premium novel costs around $10. Considering the work that went into it, that seems a reasonable fee.

1 month later
unknown_user
Feb '20

Pssst. Let me show you a comics, which DOESN'T cost too much. It costs much less that it deserves!