The Future of Tapastic

noxfox 2015-10-16 21:36:31 UTC #184

Here are some of the answers!

blastryoku 2015-10-16 22:41:48 UTC #186

In my opinion, Tapastic seems to chase the elusive mobile market like every company out there joining to the over-saturation of the market that is there but they should know that the west is not so hot on mobile content as the east is.
I'm hopeful that all these changes is nothing to be worried about and it's going to be for the best but when companies start to be so vague means that the decisions are going to benefit only them and not us, the creators.

Also i find it very dumb to put the novels section to mobile only, it's like they think that mobile are going to replace desktop computers. In trying to expand their mobile user base, they are alienating the desktop users. >.>

christinemayshing 2015-10-16 22:53:14 UTC #187

Thanks, Nox! Totally didn't see those. At least those questions were answered!

Now just to wait and see if I'm in the eye of the storm or in the middle of a long season of typhoons/hurricanes. Naturally with any change there is good and bad, if anything beta testing is a big help because there are ALWAYS some kind of problem and user feedback should be important. Here it especially should, user meaning Reader AND Creators. Or else someone is going to shoot themselves in the foot for being too hasty (I've seen so many sites go down because of changes that suddenly happened and ignoring feedback).

michaelson 2015-10-16 23:02:23 UTC #188

The new business model will not be a direct replacement for the Tapastic Support Program for a lot of creators which is why we are encouraging everyone to look into other crowdfunding platforms. There are creators who are uncomfortable with selling content, so we encourage them to seek out crowdfunding.

Nope.

Tapas media was founded on the belief of bite sized content and good storytelling. We'll be integrating more genre types in the years to come so long as they fit this particular mold, but we'll always focus on webcomics at our core and build out more content types to support it.

We'll only be accepting completed works and for the initial launch and will be focusing on curated content.

I don't think this will be possible, but we will talk about crowdfunding platforms and their benefits. Hopefully we can get some community members to chime in.

Oyster is based off of a subscription system which wasn't scalable with how they had structured payments to publishers. We aim to work closely with publishers in order to create a fair and sustainable economic structure that can be scaled out to the rest of the site.

This was an internal decision made by the team.

EnzoComics 2015-10-16 23:05:46 UTC #189

This decision to focus on mobile is not something that's been plucked out of the blue. Mobile and tablet usage has seen a constant, significant increase over the last decade to the point where, yes, there are more mobile users than desktop users across the board, a statistic too big to ignore.

tylermann 2015-10-16 23:31:58 UTC #190

As someone who is just nearing the 500 readers to start the support program, but an already existing Patreon, I'd love to see something integrated through both ways. Especially since both sites are always updating, and helping artists and creators.

Something like a support button that shows current support, or maybe even a button that has a rollover that shows rewards.

It would also be cool if Patreon has a button that says "Read the comic on Tapastic" displayed proudly.

ck_tapastic 2015-10-16 23:48:55 UTC #191

I just wanted to quickly mention that a) I didn't disappear after the first post - rather, I've been reading every single comment , and b) @michaelson and I are scheduling a livestream session which will hopefully take place soon (stay tuned for a separate annoncement).

Wanted to take this as a chance to thank all of you for sharing your thoughts and voicing your concerns. As always, you guys bring up a lot of good points, from which we learn a lot. We've all seen internet communities where overarching theme is vitriol and snarkiness, regardless of topics. This forum has been very constructive and supportive, and we know it's not something to be taken for granted and we really appreciate it.

Please keep in mind that this announcement was an early heads up - it will still be months before any actual changes will take place. We thought this creator community should be the first ones to know about our plans, even in their early form.

Please also kindly understand that we're a company, and as a company we need to figure out business model, which often takes trying different things and seeing what works best - companies rarely nail down their business model at once. If a company doesn't figure out business model, it eventually runs out of money and shuts down. Our #1 mission is to serve this awesome creative community, and if Tapastic shuts down, it would be an ultimate disservice to the community, and might cause more inconvenience to creators and readers than changing features.

Please continue supporting us so we can continue supporting you. I think what we try to do here at Tapastic is both really hard and special. Name the companies from the past 10 years that tried to tackle this online comics space and succeeded as a platform. We're some of the best engineers, product designers, and content managers and we've busted our butt off for the last 3 years on Tapastic, and we still have a long way to go - this is a hard problem to solve.

Some of you also pointed out there's not enough detail. In general, we don't think it's best to comment too specifically about changes that have not yet happened. Also some things are still not 100% gelled yet and we're still wrapping our heads around them. That's why we ask you to stay tuned - we'll make our best effort to keep you posted on our progresses as they happen. Let's start with the next livestream session.

PotooGryphon 2015-10-17 01:04:40 UTC #192

I'm not particularly a master at Patreon, however, I've done lots of research on it. If you need community member to help answer questions I can offer some help.

noxfox 2015-10-17 09:46:49 UTC #193

While I agree that it shouldn't be ignored, the other thing not to ignore is that they don't do the same things on mobile and desktop. I don't think we'll live to see mobiles replacing desktops because even as miniature computers get more and more powerful, the comfort of a large screen, keyboard and mouse/tablet isn't something we can kick out so easily. Mobile devices aren't best suited for creation, they are more on the side of readers while creators are on the desktop side. Focusing solely on readers or on creators would be an error, because those two faces of the coin are needed for it to roll on the edge, and such a thing does not happen out of tough luck.
As a creator I personally always need to check how my content looks to be sure it's how I want it to be. With the App already, I have to give up checking the outlook on mobile devices (well, I still asked App users for screenshots...) but if there's no desktop version, I don't know how I'd be supposed to do anything.

I can see the point in this, and for many writers like @Zikul I guess it would be more suited. As for myself, I admit I was hoping to share WIP novels as I share my WIP comic series, because reader feedback is a great emulation and motivation fuel. I sometimes wonder if the reason so many writers are self-centered and pedant is because it really takes a lot of (possibly inflated) self-confidence to get to the end of the story despite the constant worry:
"Am I doing good? Will they understand? Will they like it? Will.. anyone read it?"
I naively thought it would be possible to submit finished works or WIPs, and browse by this criteria. Some readers like to read a story that they know is finished, others like to see the backstages and encourage the writer to post the new chapters. Those are completely different experiences, one being more introvert and the other more extravert, and I can't say one is better. I suppose that finished stories are easier to monetize, though.

I think we understand it, yes And it's great that you're giving us the time to prepare as well. We don't see the backstages of course, so it was a huge surprise to see you giving up SP as it is really the most performing service of this kind for comic creators, but we'll see what you come up with.

LilyMaboroshi 2015-10-17 13:38:19 UTC #194

Ah... Well, guess I won't be seeing this new Novels section, then Well, I guess I am going to end up with a smartphone one day, seeing as hardly anything else is made anymore phone-wise.

I won't have a finished novel under my arm anytime soon, but let me ask : will the creator get an access to his work on the desktop version ? Not only for uploading, but also for seeing comments, so as not to have to juggle between the two and to be able to share your writing and interact with your readers even if you don't have a mobile phone (the contrary would be really unfair!).

I'm also curious as to why you only accept finished novels. Is it just at the beginning, to be sure to have content until the new section gets settled in? Comments are so important as feedback, for example to see where the readers are confused and you have to make it clearer, or whether what you're trying to say comes across the way you want it to, it would be a shame not to give that opportunity for WIPs. And if you accept a finished novel, does that mean the author wouldn't be able to change it anymore (if they did, it would just make it a WIP at a later stage) despite the feedback helping them make their work better? I'm also not sure the feedback will be as involved if the readers feel like their input can't be taken into account anyway. And will you have some sort of selection for the novels you accept other than requiring it to be finished?

Also impatient to have more details on this new "buisness model" - those are pretty vague words for me, so answers involving said "buisness model" don't really help me understand. x')

Finally, as said by @noxfox - if keeping the SP for the change is out of the question for IT problems, does that mean it'll eventually come back ? It really was the best solution for supporting and it would be nice not to have it disappear completely.

noxfox 2015-10-17 23:12:41 UTC #195

True... To be honest, as a writer, the only thing that would convince me to go on a platform rather than publish and sell on amazon (where there's already a wide buying audience) is to get good feedback. I see absolutely no other reason. As I already said, writing is a lonely thing, depressing even sometimes... It was the same for making comics, then webcomics broke the loneliness and made things so much better and cheerful, with the possibility to really engage with the audience along the production. If it's mobile-only, finished works only, and no focus on easing feedback, I really have 0 idea what even would be interesting about this service... OnO

I have a strong feeling that smut might be disallowed, but personally, if the goal is to sell what I would expect would be a selection on minium text quality: propper grammar, no typos, sensical sentences... the same things you expect when you buy a book in a library. Just because it's online doesn't mean it's ok to murder the language. Especially since there are so many free ressources out there to help one to write and format their stories correctly.

sarahrebecca58 2015-10-18 02:55:38 UTC #196

For other clarification, what if the prose version is finished, but the GN itself would be serialized? Would it have to wait to0 be selected when it finished?

AffectedMind 2015-10-18 12:15:38 UTC #197

deep breath Okay, first of, declining support program is a bit unfair in my opinion, even if I don't use it myself. Some people earn a lot from this, some even make a living and now it's like they will lost their job and need to start again, just like when inkblazers closed.
Second, I'm looking forward for the mobile improvement, as well as for the site itself, but I'm also a bit worried, please don't sc*ew this up.

Third of, I don't understand all the hate on Patreon. Seriously people, have you been using it? Try it? Or just repeat what people say? I can agree, that maybe NSFW content gains more supporters, but to be honest it's not Patreon fault, it's people's fault, they are pervs, everybody is a bit perv inside, admit it. It's not focusing around art and comics and stuff, because it's not suppose to, it's just site that will gather your revenue. You need to advertise it so people will notice. It only gets annoying if people are begging, I truly hate that. You need to encourage people to support you, show them what have you prepared for them as a gift. There are a lot of succesfull artists out there. You will not grow big during a month unless your fanbase is huge. It takes time, a lot of it.
So far I'm satysfied with Patreon, it have convinient interface and it's easy to use. You can post perks for your supporters directly on the site. When I was in support program I had to bug people for e-mails so I can send them stuff, because I didn't want to host it somewhere else. And here was a problem because mobile version doesn't show you when you get a private message or someone shared a post, so at the end I had to post an announcement in the episode section.

I can understand why people may not like it since they don't have to migrate, but saying that the site is ugly, have nothing to do with how they are handling things. In my opinion SmackJeeves is ugly, but I post my comics anyway.

I hope everything will escalate quickly and end well.
(sorry for my english if any mistakes...)

h4rrish4wk23 2015-10-18 13:08:45 UTC #198

First: Yes, we are all aware and keeping in mind that you are a company and need to figure out business models. But also please would those at Tapas media also keep in mind that your creators on here and especially those using the support programme are also de facto companies if only of one or two people and need to sort out business plans. Many of them HAVE already sorted out business plans once with inkblazers and again with your support programme. How exactly does your company and its employees feel when they're jerked around by other companies they do business with who provide essential services? What if your server supplier or domain company suddenly upped and changed policy and support for things fundamental for your company to run but had no feasible or easy alternative that didn't require a great deal of extra work on your part for the foreseeable future? Even as a heads up announcement it's not particularly thrilling that you didn't even consider the people using your support programmes as professionals heavily impacted enough to at least consult with them before you made the decision. Big issue here is not you figuring out a business plan that drops the support programme it's that you did this without consulting the other businesses (I.e. Creators) involved. You told them how it was going to be, you didn't ask them or work WITH them to create a new business plan that worked to all interested parties. The fact is you are not compromising here, you are making creators compromise and restructure to accommodate you wanting to go in a new direction. That's not a good business practice and just because it's industry standard with many tech companies doesn't mean it's still not a bad thing. A good practice would be to take feedback from the creators who use your site on board and actually let them AFFECT policy instead of just nodding along at a live stream and saying "Yeah, but we own this so you'll have to just restructure your end regardless of how you feel and all the extra work, pay, expense and lost man hours it means to you."

It's kind of like when the NCAA refuses to pay college football players. They have to work super hard plus extra hours for the "education" they're supposedly getting "for free" which is why they're not considered "professionals" even though with all the practice, meetings, gym, games, marketing and so forth they have to do they might as well be working a full time job since the pro league is just all that minus the "education". Yes, creators use your site and app and it is YOUR site and app, but just because for some of your users this is a hobby or just something they read doesn't mean that the creators impacted most by this, who are professionals, are no less professionals than people who work in the same building as you. What if Tapas media retired it's payroll management and gave all its employees a heads up that it's happening and suggest you all work a little extra harder on the side and you'll get your pay through that side? Because sending support programme creators to patreon or tip jar is pretty much the same thing.

I get it. I sound like a ranting, stubborn headed and cruel entitled female dog talking about this on and on and on, likely you're sick and tired of it because you think I don't get it. But I am really tired of social media websites being dictatorships instead of democracies just because "It's a business" as if any of the other businesses that use said site aren't.

Secondly: Curated only content sounds like a pretty much closed off section where you're just going to market established authors you've approached so I don't see currently that it would be in my interests to submit to Tapastic when there's amazon, lulu, createspace and people I know who are actual editors at existing publishing houses who would be open to my submissions and sites like fan fiction.net. Wattpad, fiction press so on that I can submit to on a more spaced out manner that would allow me to incorporate feedback from readers. I know this is just "to start" but as a writer this is an over saturated market where I already know where to go elsewhere and sites would give me same level of support if not exposure as Tapastic based on what I already know of your format with comics and the app.

We DO appreciate you, your site, your work. We're not here to rubbish that or be ungrateful. I am not ungrateful. But it's hard not to feel like maybe the creators here aren't really valued as much as the readers or existing members of your staff.

AnnaLandin 2015-10-18 16:07:05 UTC #199

I have been using Patreon for quite some time, and I think it works well enough - but what Tapastic had that Patreon doesn't is a webcomic infrastructure. The SP is a different animal, which is why I like using both.

Also, Patreon had a pretty significant security breach just recently, which scared a lot of people off it, which I totally and completely understand. Tapastic, thus far, hasn't had that kind of thing happen, so I imagine that's part of the reason why people feel more secure with it.

AffectedMind 2015-10-18 16:14:36 UTC #200

Well Patreon is only a tip jar (that's why an argument saying it's not focusing around comics is not important for me), that's why people like support program so much I guess. It's all in one place.

Yea there was something like that, but I didn't really mind, I just changed my password. I know a lot of people got scared. After all this site is very succesfull and creators there holds lots of money. It's quite a temptation for a hacker.

AnnaLandin 2015-10-18 16:47:16 UTC #201

The point most of us are making isn't that Patreon is bad, but that Tapastic's SP was good, and we want to keep the SP because it was good. The SP caters specifically to webcomic artists, and so many of us think it's a better fit than Patreon.

That's all.

A lot of people are/were very concerned, and for good reason - I, too, changed my password, but the fact still remains that a lot of information got leaked that should have been secure, which is really not a good thing. That people are now hesitant to use Patreon is only natural.

Add to this that Patreon has only recently started putting measures in place to prevent people from pledging, getting rewards and then cancelling the pledge before they were charged, and you can see why people might prefer the SP.

Still, the removal of the SP seems to be an infrastructurally motivated one, and I'll have to live with it. I'm just waiting for more info re: whatever we're getting instead.

lae178 2015-10-18 17:46:09 UTC #202

I'm wondering some things, sorry if it's been asked already (only looked at a third of the comments or so)

-what will happen to the supports-only content?
(will it be visible for all or for none? or something else?)
-will the money earned by the support program still simply be transferable? (just to be sure it's grouped with the ads income so guessing it'll continue being there)
-will the overview of (past) supporters and their earned perks still be available for creators?

yaoi 2015-10-18 19:33:47 UTC #203

I just applied SP a while ago before i saw this..so does that mean my application wont be approved at all due to SP's future cancellation? And even if I do get approved i wont get any money at all? Im so confused for this sudden change with so little detail and information I honestly don't know what to do now =_=..It took me sooo long and soo much consideration to finally apply for SP and then I see this...its just too much of a disappointment for me to handle atm..

lightingb 2015-10-20 11:00:44 UTC #204

Well, since you will change the site, you could add a option that allows the readers to read in strip format and comic format, reading all in strip format is tiring, also will you remove the ad's program too?