The problem with popular visibility. ( A discussion of new way to be discovered )

[WintreKitty]

A webcomic reviewer like @WintreKitty?

As much as I'd love to volunteer for something like this, it comes down to time and that is something I lack. In a much more basic form, I already do this with my monthly recommendations.

If people are interested, they can email me suggestions and I'd be happy to look them over and potentially add some smaller guys into the mix. But currently I'm basing these off of the ones I already follow/know, and that is generally limited to more popular stories. These also tend to be the ones that have been around Tapas the longest, as creators used to receive more exposure over longer periods of time when Tapas was much smaller.

If there were a panel of people that chose, similar to what @SaberCow suggested, I would consider being apart of that (and remove my monthly recommendations) dependent on a number of requirements -all of which boil down to how much time I have versus how much time it would take.

In reality, it probably wouldn't be a daily thing but rather a weekly suggestion, since daily comic suggestions would be highly time consuming for a small panel of individuals. If a Tapas staff were to organize this in such a way, I would be very interested in participating where I can.

Again, I want to reiterate that this is a fantastic idea and I really do think it would benefit a lot of creators and readers alike.

[XzynderVexymous]

I agree somewhat. I think Tapastic's idea is it make us small comic artist work for it. But, giving more recognition to us would be cool.

https://tapas.io/series/Earths-Immigrant

[keii4ii]

O_o I think we're talking about two different things.

What I was referring to, is that just because a comic has a higher sub count, does not mean it's more likely to make it to the front page of this site. It's because of the way the Trending/Popular sections currently work.

Let's say comic A has 10,000 subs, and only 1000 out of those 10k people actually read the comic; the other 9000 either stopped reading, or haven't begun to read it, or whatever.

Comic B, meanwhile, has 1000 subs, and every one of those thousand people is actually reading the comic.

Both comic A and B have 1000 people reading it. Tapas algorithm will pick B over A, because A has such a low engagement ratio. B will probably make it to the first page of Trending every now and then. A, on the other hand, will never make it.

That's what I was talking about. Could you clarify what you are talking about? I mean, I agree with what you said in your reply, but I don't know how that relates to the quoted part of my post, so I must be missing something. ^^;;

[DaveStankoven]

Sure. But that becomes weighted towards comics that don't have a continuing narrative. Long-form comics get read very differently depending on the person because of the format making short-joke-a-day comics the more likely victor.

I understand the logic of subscriber to viewer ratio and that's not a bad system, for that section. It allows for comics that fit that bill to be seen. But that doesn't help more niche comic find their audience. There are a lot of wonderful comics that attract a less engaged audience. that doesn't mean they're worse comics just that they have a different type of readership. Which is why the call for more variety of ways for comics to be discovered.

[Nio_Kasgami]

I like the ideas as I spoke with you in Skype Dave,

As we although think, Tapastic is well let's recognize it where the gag-comic will be extremely popular

Now I know they have OTHER genre of comic who reach the popular sections. don't get me wrong I am aware of it.

so aside this why instead of curator...we have a better popular/trending section?
I am speaking about other website where I publish my comic...
and they are divised by genre.
Like the Top gag-comic the Top horror, the top romance etc

I think this would diversify the front page A LOT in my opinion...so instead having a front page full of example action comic...they would have diversity!
it's wouldn't completely fix the exposure issue...but would help to have diversity!

the daily snack could work the same no? like having one comic of each category.

This would make the diversity WAY better and maybe help to find some other comic?

what do you think about this?

[UzukiCheverie]

I have to agree very strongly with the comic ceiling point. The way Tapas is built has led to a certain handful of comics that are super popular and remain popular simply for being popular . . . so they end up being the only ones seen at all times, which just continues to fuel them with minimal effort. Additionally, because of the growing traffic of the website, and the increasing number of readers, it takes a lot more now to break into Popular/Trending. When you add in the fact that getting into those sections requires you to compete with those popular comics mentioned, it's become unnecessarily difficult.

Three years ago, it would take maybe 500 views to get into Trending/Popular; now it takes a few thousand, views that most people just don't get because there are comics that automatically get those views from constantly being in Popular, Trending, Daily Snack, and just featured all the time via banners and other things here and there (plus the genre matters too - I hate to bring it back to this argument, but yes, gag-a-day and BL are basically the prerequisite genre to making it anywhere on Tapas, especially if you want to break through that comic ceiling that's been formed as a direct result of these genres).

Tapas is gonna grow, and that's just an inevitability. It's not a bad thing. But the way the site is built basically means that the more it grows, the less variability you see in content - because all that traffic is being redirected to the same small handful of comics over and over again, from every possible angle.

[genjiOtori]

This is something I'm constantly thinking about and how to change that to my advantage.
Starting this year I heavily promoted my comic on facebook and twitter and got some increased view amounts and subscribers. But I also realized that the format of my comic isn't competable against the most popular stuff here on tapas. In fact, I see myself unable to ever get successful on tapas because of the way it works: get a lot of comments and likes in a short period of time. That's not how my comic works. It's a slow and steady journey. Often I don't get comments at all because... yeah, why should I. It's a new page. Great!

I know my readership is very faithful but also quiet. By cleverly promoting the comic on Facebook I reached Trending a few times and I got a handful of new subscribers... which are also of the silent type or they just read the comic once a month when 10 pages are up. I know people like my comic and it doesn't suck. But it's just not detectable on tapas. I'm constantly thinking about how readers can find me if I'm not promoting (which takes A LOT OF TIME, gosh) and I'm clueless here on tapas:

• The search feature is... strange. How are the comics ranked?
• I have to decide solely on ICON AND TITLE when I'm looking for a new comic
• I have to click/tap more than 3 times to get from popular section to a genre I like

That's not really readerfriendly. And honestly I don't enjoy looking for new comics on tapas. I find the best comics on Twitter because creators provide more important information in a tweet: a bigger image and a catchy description.

[LordVincent]

I don't think it's an issue of visibility. Some comics just do better on one platform than another.
I personally had the exact opposite experience of everyone here. On all sites I tried previous to tapas I got little to no attention. I struggled hard and worked my ass off. Then when I came to tapas, my hard work finally began giving results. Someone here said "You don't get attention or new subs by being on page 5 of trending!!" but that's where I started out. And that's where I was for a long time. I had to work my ass off to get out of there, but that's how the art business works. If you're in it for popularity, you're in the wrong business. You'd probably do better as a youtube makeup guru or a blogger or pretty much aaaanything else if you just want quick and easy eyes on you.

I want it to be easier for small artists that are ready to put in the work on a regular basis to get the attention they deserve, but now that the popular section is pushed faaaaaar down on the page whereas trending is fairly high up, I don't think tapas has done that bad of a job to approach this. There's even a weird thing that takes you to a completely random comic when you sign in on desktop. The only thing they could do to help small comics besides this, in my opinion, is create a snack feed for small comics only and create a section for "just added an episode" on the front page. That would be an improvement, sure, but that doesn't mean tapas is doing BADLY right now.

Keep in mind that no algorithm will help if you don't work your ass off to study it and use it to your advantage.
Momentum and hard work is everything.

The way Tapas is built has led to a certain handful of comics that are super popular and remain popular simply for being popular . . . so they end up being the only ones seen at all times, which just continues to fuel them with minimal effort.

I work like 10-14 hours a day... Tell me again about "minimal effort" ._.

[Louistrations]

I was going to suggest that a lot of comics would benefit from the comic collections being updated and expanded upon... but I've just noticed that they're no longer on the main Tapas site(?)

Tapas have specific types/formats of comics that they like to promote, which I have no qualms about; you have to remember that they're also trying to bring in new users and build a brand image. But, I always secretly hoped for a magical girl collection! Ehe

[LordVincent]

I would like a clearly visible and more easily accessible just-updated section that shows comics that just uploaded an episode. I have a feeling this is what helps new comics rise on webtoons and smackjeeves.

I was going to suggest that a lot of comics would benefit from the comic collections being updated and expanded upon... but I've just noticed that they're no longer on the main Tapas site(?)

I think they have collections that change regularily on the app?
Magical girls don't get much attention on here and would be a fun change actually xD

[PopChromatic]

I would like a clearly visible and more easily accessible just-updated section that shows comics that just uploaded an episode. I have a feeling this is what helps new comics rise on webtoons and smackjeeves.

Absolutely. The "fresh" section is a tiny, easily-ignored square at the bottom of the page. I don't really understand why.

[PopChromatic]

I think you'd be great on a panel or as a curator. But it's true: the time demand would be enormous. I think it would have to be a paid position. I, for one, would become a premium subscriber to support something like that.

[LordVincent]

Do you mean on the app? Because on the desktop site there is no "fresh", there's only new and noteworthy which requires for the comic to be recognized by tapas staff. We need a section that automatically gives everyone a chance and isn't all up to luck, so that people who don't get recognized by that small group of people can get a somewhat larger chance to use statistics and small exposure to their advantage to grow and easier integrate into trending and eventually popular.

[PopChromatic]

Nope! There is a fresh section at the very freaking bottom of the front page on the desktop. Much to my surprise!

[LordVincent]

Wtf? It doesn't even exist on my end.

[PopChromatic]

Really? You don't have a picture of a ram under the "discover more" heading?

[LordVincent]

OHHHHH THAT ONE dude that doesn't fucking COUNT, who clicks an image that's been the same for years?
I mean a small row of thumbnails of actual comics that just updated.

[PopChromatic]

Well, right. It's useless.

[keii4ii]

Preaching to the choir, dude! I agree that the discoverability needs to be improved, badly, on this platform. I didn't bring it up to say "everything is fine the way it is." I brought it up to tell you, even comics with a good number of subscribers are getting buried. It's not just comics under X subs that could use the help. It's every comic that's not making it to Popular/ Trending/ DS regularly, every comic that's hidden from the eyes of people who would love it only if they knew it existed. (which seems like we both agree anyway; it's just the first post seemed focused on comics with few subs, so I wanted to be more inclusive)

[Jrej]

Very interesting topic here.
I'm glad we're bringing this up.

I do get Tapastic's model and I get why they promote the site with very specific comics.
On the other end a fresh section or most recent page would be handy for everyone.

Curators is a great alternative.
Maybe showcasing everyone's reading list would be simple enough.
I followed the super science club project adding a special banner to promote comics i like.
I hope that sends some of my readers over to them.

It's also our responsability as creators to share the comics we love, directly to the readers, like on the wall, in the forums, on twitter, and why not straight into the comic...