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May 2017

If the solution to get on the trending page is forgo my own creative intentions that current readers have come to enjoy, then there is a problem. It's not a hard work thing. No one isn't working hard on their comics. It's an opportunity thing. There can be MORE opportunities that won't detract from the current ones that people enjoy thus far. Telling people to live with it is a close-minded and outdated form of thinking. Just because it's the way it is doesn't mean its the way it should be,. Change is good. Opportunity is better. Why not offer a variety of ways to connect niche comics with their audience? We shouldn't have to sacrifice values for visibility. This is the internet where small weird groups of people can find the thing they love. We need to make that more possible. Hardwork doesn't always = success. Great things are often shunted by mediocre but "relatable" things.

I JUST want more ways for possible audience connection. It's about sharing what we love with the people that could love it. This isn't about what we deserve. It's about making the best possible site for comic discovery.

Michael has since told me told me that he selects about 85 comics a month in the snack. So there is some selectivity there. And that is good. But thats 85 of 30,000 comics that are constantly updating and in only one small place. there's a 0.35% chance your comic will be a selected a month.

I don't think that should go away. There just need to be more variety of options for people to discover new series.I like the what has been suggested so far. If they could all be implemented that'd be fantastic. Though I realize a group of curators is probably the most difficult and ambitious of the options.

If you don't want to change, then go to another host site that will better accommodate your needs. No one is forcing anyone to stay on Tapastic. If you have a loyal following, no doubt that if you make an announcement that you've gone over to Smackjeeves or Webtoons or Hiveworks, your fans will follow you.

Many creators have already decided to pull their works from Tapastic after that recent storm involving the updated ToS.

Haha. yes. That is always the solution. Don't like something? Cut and run.

I'm trying to improve things for all comic creators. If you really have a problem with that, please tell me why that's a problem.

The topic of the thread is potential solutions - not "party A vs. party B". I'd like to stress that if you don't agree with the discussion in here, that's fine, but the topic itself is not to argue against it, but find possible ways to make things better for creators. Arguing it and saying "fuck it" is basically just a null and void part of the topic. It doesn't contribute, so it's not necessary.

So I'll leave it simply: There's no downside to what OP is looking for, ESPECIALLY when it's hypothetical and in no way concrete, so arguing it is both a waste of energy and a waste of discussion.

Everyone starting off should definitely keep this in mind. Webcomics are a 4+ year game. Everyone had to start at day 1 as a nobody. There's no cuts in the line. Everyone has to do their time and earn their place.

The thing is creators are seeing the same series promoted over and over (series that have earned being the top spots and rightfully so) to the point of exhaustion. Seriously how many tiles for GamerCat does the app need? There was at one time where we calculuated 30% of all space on the app promoted GamerCat. Thank goodness that changed because readers are going to think the site only has a handful of comics.

The issue is that all of these things have to be hard coded in and that takes time. Time seems really limited these days for staff, so they just leave everything the same day after day. Staff needs to find some way how they can make things automatically dynamic so that each time you visit the app it's somehow different. That is more engaging to the brain. For example, the tripping section, when was the last time it changed? We don't even explore the app any more, there's nothing new. We just go straight to the coin earning video ads.

Can't they code the tipping section to present 9 comics in rotation from a pool of 100, for example? Mix things up somehow?

If everyone had a "chance" of somehow being seen if they worked hard enough, that would go a long way to alleviating this. However as it stands right now, unless you get noticed by one staff member, you won't get any sort of attention on the site other than via Trending. Only having one way of "breaking out" seems to be far too limiting.

Which forces most comics that are not of certain genres to have to advertise. Some of us are spending $100s a month in advertising all of that traffic which not only benefits our series but Tapas as whole. If we're going to be making that kind of investment in Taps, one would think they could invest in making some changes to the app to make it more dynamic.

We've run the numbers twice and the possibility of being featured once in a year is 5%.

Also the 30,000 series number is out of date. 35,000 to 40,000 is actually a more accurate range. Tapas is adding approximately 40 new series a day and that number was quoted a while back when the desktop site did not have the current level traffic it's experiencing. The site is rapidly expanding. Traffic has doubled in the past year. Now with open publishing for books its likely going to double again. Look at Wattpad's numbers. That is where Tapas is heading.

Hey small-fry day-1 creator here to come give my 2 cents.

when I was uploading my minicomic I never felt like I was getting buried, sure I dont have 1000's of subscribers or anything but every time I updated I got new views and comments and subscribers, it's not like I was going un-noticed. Prior to posting my silly little minicmoic here I had basically 0 online attention except for from people who I knew IRL. The fact that I got any readers at all is a good sign for me.

This was totally not the case for me - while I was updating my minicomic it got into trending several times, and none of my episodes have broken 500 views, the most views I've gotten on any page is 249. My minicomic is a weird trippy thing that barely falls into any of the genre tags, and it's definitely not BL. This was in February of this year. So unless they changed the algorythms with the new site update, I dont think it's as difficult to break into treding as you say it is.

I'm no success story like @JohnVincent is, but like, I certainly wasn't "getting burried".


The "creator recomendations" program that came out of the Super Science Club sort-of achieves this, basically creators are encouraged to use their banner as an advertiesement for another comic. I dunno if that's quite what you have in mind, but it does the trick if you run a series.

IN GENERAL: the super science club thread covers a lot of the same ground that this thread does, and there are a lot of good ideas there about how to build an audience with the tools that we alread have available to us. (and a lot of long rants that I wrote that I dont entirely agree with anymore just a heads up)

Yes the current system has helped people and there seem to be a fair number that don't understand where I and the few others that have agreed with me are coming from but again I'm not trying to argue that the current system is flawed. I Don't think it is. I think the current system is great and has been wonderful for a large number of people.

I just think we are in a position to talk about additional tools. Great communities last long because they grow and develop to achieve the most versatile and functional environment. We have a wonderful set of site owners that listens and cares about their creators and fans.

The current everything can and should stay. Because it is great. I literally just want to spark potential growth in currently untapped markets of comics that are already available on this site. To give those great gems more opportunity.

If things are working for you already, then this topic isn't for you because you've found your niche and they've found you. This is for those that under current systems aren't noticed.

Agreed -there's always room for improvement, I think a lot of that improvement is currently on Staff's to-do-list as well.

I just wanted to chime in because it seemed like a lot of people are making things sound worse than they are, I dont think I found any particular niche for my comic or that the system is working better/worse for me than it is anyone else, but from the tone of the conversation it sounded like people were saying that the system was broken, and that's totally not the case.

I guess my point is that you dont have to make a BL/Gag a day/whatever genre is popular or have a pre-existing audience or something like that to get on to trending which is what a lot of people seem to like implying >_>

EDIT: For reference here's my minicomic3 since I keep bringing it up in case anyone is interested?

as much as I agree that discoverability here is a little cluncky,
have anyone ever thought that a large percentage of that 30k comics constantly updating might be junk??

even netflix, youtube, hulu has alot of junk,
and honestly, as a consumer, I got turned off by too many choices,
my brain just shuts down, and motivate me to go do something else if I'm presented with too many choices, which on a glimpse looks like theres more garbage than good stuff

I think that's the reason why the algorithm try to limit the amount of exposure to everything available,

although like a section of what recently updated would be good for reader to browse through

Yes there is junk and again, I don't want to change the current algorithm. I want to add additional outlets for comics to be featured for visibility.

Honestly I think the best course of action would be to make the fresh section visible as thumbnails on the front page. It's a great thing but people forget that it's there.

I know I suggested they pick either fresh or new and noteworthy back when the site made the name change and all, but that was because the "fresh" section they did have on the site served the same purpose as new and noteworthy rather than the actual fresh section.

A very small recommendation feed that shows up when you are done reading a series could work too. Replace the "read next" thing that shows other comics you are subbes to with recommendations. But no big recommendations thing on the site, no weird profile changes, we don't want the site to be too cluttered. If it's unorganized, small creators don't benefit because noone benefits.

Aside from this, I don't think much could be done. Tapas isn't at a place where they can hire someone to make a special recommendations feed of smaller comics yet. The Daily Snack probably already takes up enough time.

I'd personally love to see some sort of activity-based algorithm here, much like with Youtube (though hopefully not as shitty, but is that asking too much lol? I mean come on Youtube, I watched ONE snake bite video, that doesn't mean that's the only thing I want to watch for the rest of my life lol)

I feel like that sort of algorithm would also help a lot for those who still believe that the front page is oversaturated with the same genre(s) (as that's been an ongoing issue for quite some time now. I don't think I need to mention it, you guys know what I'm talking about lol). It could also help solve that reader decay issue that a lot of longform story comics face, and was highlighted in the Science Club (an issue that I'm just starting to gradually push through myself, and I know a lot of longform creators are STILL trying to overcome). Enjoy this comic? You might enjoy [comic], [comic], [comic].

I mean, having the reading list suggestions at the bottom makes sense but... it still doesn't really make sense when you can still access it from your profile AND your dropdown dashboard.

Great discussion! I'd be totally down for seeing a new way of getting lesser known comics discovered more easily on the site. I've also noticed that there is a wall of visibility where comics can really only be noticed if they've just been updated. I feel like the only way for small time comics on Tapastic to get noticed right now is through frequent updates and social media. The fresh section is great, but I think it would be great if it were more visible on the front page. And as someone else mentioned above, maybe a section for each genre's latest comic pages.

What hits hard for me is when people sum all your hard work up to "they're just lucky" or "it's because they sold themselves and made insert popular genre here".

That's an unfortunate hang up, but the landscape isn't that black and white. You can't have only hard work or only luck to suceed, or only skill. You need a combination of them to succeed and to continue your success.
Reducing someone sucess to ONE thing (luck/hard work) is toxic in general and completely untrue.

People too often assume success = luck or hard work, no success = no hard work. Never assume, it's makes an ass out of u and me.

Filter bubble in our life's make it far too easy to overlook the full picture when all it shows is the highlight reel