The REAL reason Superhero Movies Don't Work Long Term

[MK_Wizard]

Since we're on that subject...

I liked Wonder Woman better, but I get that everyone will have different views. The one hill I will die on over it though is that Wonder Woman's theme song was dynamite. In fact, I think theme songs in general have become a lost art. A lot of them sound the same and generic. Though Wondie's theme stays with you the way Michael Keaton's Batman theme and Superman's March do. That theme song IS Wonder Woman's theme now.

[vapidink]

Comic movies also have the issue of not being well suited for lengthy series of adaptations, like what Marvel is doing and DC is attempting. Comics work in spite of the long and never-ending storylines because people are invested in characters that have been around for decades. You can't do that with movies. Actors age and move on and suddenly you're down one iconic character and a good portion of the fanbase that was in it for that character. It's why less people care about Marvel now that most of the original characters are gone.

The average movie goer is also not going to want to keep up with dozens of movies just to get the entire story. They want to know what happens next with the parts they care about without having to sit through movies they're ambivalent about just to get bits of the story. Marvel is trying to translate the way comics are consumed to the big screen, but it's missing the point on why these two types of media are different.

[MK_Wizard]

THANK YOU.

When it comes to Superhero movies, one is enough. If it needs a sequel or sequels, make a TV series. And to be honest, I always felt Superhero tales suited TV series better anyway for character development, story arcs and plot.

[vapidink]

Haven't even watched most of the newer Marvel series because I just kind of stopped caring, haha. I kinda liked some of the old DC shows because they were all their own thing, so if you didn't watch one it didn't matter. The best were the animated series though. Justice League an Justice League Unlimited in particular did a really good job at telling complex, stand-alone stories while developing a whole bunch of characters.

[MK_Wizard]

Yes, yes and YES. At one point, Marvel was going in that same direction with 90s and the long lost series Spider-Man the New Animated Series on MTV, but.... Marvel decided to aim things solely at kids and since then, its cartoons have been trapped in Neverland. And I do not mean that in a nice way.

If I can be honest, I am one the few fans who hated Spectacular Spider-Man and as someone who followed the cartoons even after it, I feel like it did more damage to Marvel, Spider-Man especially, when it came to TV series than good.

[GodbreakerComic]

The "cinematic universe" stuff has run its course, too. I feel like audiences (myself definitely included) want tight self contained stories again. A movie with a beginning, middle, and end. Not a 2 hour piece of "content" designed to just set up the next 2 hour piece of "content".

The Batman was my favourite super hero movie in YEARS because it simply being a contained story was such a breath of fresh air. It served no masters.

Also give me that Batman/Catwoman they-want-to-but-they-cant romantic dynamic all day. That is WAY more compelling than "will-they-wont-they" and I'll die on that silly hill.

[MK_Wizard]

Me too.

It's also why Batman Returns is one of the few sequels I find works and we need more superhero films like back in the day. Heck, Blade worked alone and didn't need sequels.

As for length, I miss the days when movies were an hour and a half long. But that's a discussion on its own. I do have faith that superhero media will find its groove again.

[NickRowler]

Marvel decided to aim things solely at kids and since then,

I feel like this is also a struggle with the Disney films. Disney prides itself on being a family company and they want to make toys target at young kids (tho usually boys, as a parallel to their princess brand).

My sister dragged me to see Thor: Love and Thunder which felt like it was having an identity crisis. There were parts definitely targeted at teens and adults. It was a PG-13 film that actually had PG-13 themes and jokes, which upset some parents. BUT on the other hand, there were ill placed stuff that felt like they were shoved in to make it more "kid friendly". Like the goat meme or the bad guys getting beat up by little kids with plushies. And in the end, you just end up with a film that's sort of meh.

[GodbreakerComic]

As for length, I miss the days when movies were an hour and a half long. But that's a discussion on its own. I do have faith that superhero media will find its groove again.

More film makers should do what Tarantino did with Kill Bill. (Or a more recent example, Dune)

People tell me Zack Snyders Justice League is good... I have ADHD I ain't sitting through a 4 hour movie lol.

[GodbreakerComic]

Yeah. When you try to please everyone you end up pleasing no one. A lot of the MCU, especially recently, falls under that.

[MK_Wizard]

I think one YouTuber said it like that too. When you make something for everyone, you wind making something for no one. Superhero movies need to be aimed at superhero fans not people who would never so much as pick up a comic. Family movies need to be aimed at families not just the kids.

And honestly, I think MORE superhero media needs to be aimed at adults and the youngest crowd being preteens. The last superhero TV series I saw that really had potential and could have gone places were Agent Carter and Cloak and Dagger. NEITHER was kid friendly, had dumb comic relief or shoehorned elements that didn't belong, and they were actually pretty great. I'm especially disappointed in the premature cancellation of Cloak and Dagger, but they're obscure Marvel heroes, but they could have come out there had Disney/Marvel focused on them.

[KevinReijnders]

"Superhero fan" is a pretty blanket term in of itself though. The hole thing with superheroes is that they generally tend to have broad market appeal. Sure you have your niche heroes, but in general they're kinda designed so everyone can view themselves in them.

[KevinReijnders]

Zack's Justice cut is better than the cinematic version, but it's still a poor movie on its own imo. Zack Snyder hasn't been making great films for a while now. The recent Rebel Moon fiasco is another prime example of it.

[BoomerZ]

Thor: Love and Thunder which felt like it was having an identity crisis. There were parts definitely targeted at teens and adults. It was a PG-13 film that actually had PG-13 themes and jokes, which upset some parents. BUT on the other hand, there were ill placed stuff that felt like they were shoved in to make it more "kid friendly". Like the goat meme or the bad guys getting beat up by little kids with plushies. And in the end, you just end up with a film that's sort of meh.

That's just taika waititi's dumb humor. That doesn't have much to do with Disney trying to be kid friendly.

[NickRowler]

I liked his work on Jojo Rabbit and Our Flag Means Death. Plus with how he was acting during the films promo, like he really did not want to be there, I get the feeling the Disney executives might have tampered with the production of the film.

I have heard people theorizing about this for a while. Like why does Disney hire different directors and writers to just make films that all just look or feel the same.

[KevinReijnders]

To bank on the name recognition of the director and writers. It's all just branding and marketing, nothing of substance.

[BoomerZ]

Taika has literally said he doesn't care about lore. "I’ll Ruin Your Mythos in a Minute, Baby" was a quote from him. The problem is he made an ok movie with Ragnarok. Not a good Thor movie as that Thor is not the Thor from any previous movie. That was him making his own movie with Thor put in it. Then after that the execs gave him free rein to do whatever he wanted. Before he was told to edit it down, Love and Thunder was 4+ hours of film. He just put any stupid idea he had into it. Once again, a person doing a comic book movie that has no interest in comics at all. That should have disqualified him right there. Almost every comic movie from the last 4-7 years has been made by people that thought comic movies are silly. Not understanding people care a LOT about these characters. The people that took it seriously (Russo Bros) made literal classics (winter soldier, Infinity war, etc)

[NickRowler]

I don't want to argue with you.

I also hated Infinity War, it was a mess. If that's an example of a Marvel film done right, maybe that is the problem.

I also believe a film doesn't have to be 100% true to it's source material. There are a lot of great movies that made changes and still ended up with something great. A film should never be a replacement for a book or comic. I think if people like the story or lore in the comic, then just read the comic.

[GodbreakerComic]

I personally think he completely misunderstood both the characters of Batman and Superman.

His movies are for the guy who has a punisher sticker on the back of his truck but doesnt read punisher comics.

[MK_Wizard]

This is a problem I feel with a lot of reboots now. They wind up being made by people who don't know or understand the source material. Disney even admitted that they hired people who weren't comic fans (some even hated comics) on purpose to do something "fresh". That was such a bad idea.

I firmly believe that in order to write well, you need to know what you're doing, what you're writing about and genuinely love it. It's like being in a relationship with someone. If you don't know them, don't love them and would never pursue them, what are you doing?