The REAL reason Superhero Movies Don't Work Long Term

[MK_Wizard]

I know this is my hot take, but I think the number one reason Superhero Movies go bad isn't because of fatigue, but because Superhero tales are too long and detailed to be compressed into one movie at a time and work better as long form TV shows. And I think that is a plus.

Not just because you get to tell the story properly, but there are actually a lot of great job opportunities and artistic paths you can take in a TV show that you just don't get in a film. TV shows make develop a personal relationship with the characters and their world.

You get that with a film too, but not as personally or as deep as you do with a show. I mean, look at how deeply we fell in love with Ashoka Tano thanks to going on her long detailed journey with her. It's ok to take your time in telling a story. That is an art form too.

[BoomerZ]

Super hero movies couldn't last because they became popular. As soon as they became the money makers they were you had people with ZERO interest in superheroes wanting to make them as it was good for their career. It wasn't for the reason that "I loved Spiderman growing up", it was "this movie will make be money and open my career to more movies." Hence you have writers and directors that wouldn't be caught dead doing a superhero or star wars movie (silly movie about space wizards with laser swords was their quote.) just a decade ago now wanting to make "their" movie that just happens to have superheroes in it. We get Eternals that had zero to do with Jack Kirby's work. We got a director that only took Thor because he had a kid and needed money. (I'll ruin your mythos in a minute, baby.- Taika Waititi) And we get characters that are those character in name only. Their personalities are nothing like the characters in the comics. The fans, the people that will go see a movie more than once, buy the merch, and keep the IP alive, doesn't want this shit. They want their beloved comic/story made into a movie they can enjoy like they did with the original. The normies will see a movie once and forget about it. You need a fanbase to keep it alive. And marvel, lucasfilm, and disney as a whole lost them.

[TAMAnnoying]

I don't understand why people are so afraid of the word "fatigue"? For real you don't think real people with real lives don't eventually find new interests? You don't think people wanna move on to other genres because they've been watching the same genre for the past ten years?

People got western fatigue, zombie fatigue, I personally get anime fatigue and have to take breaks watching new animes every couple of years. I'll go on horror binges because I just feel like branching out.

Fatigue is real, and it's fine. It's allowed. Let's not pretend as WEB COMIC CREATORs that we don't have to suffer through audience fatigue as well. Your audience is just never gonna be this stagnant number of people, they have jobs and lives and eventually new interests. My friend did nothing but read comics throughout her entire collage career and now she's stopped reading comics all together and FISHES.

Also marvel movies suck now so Idk why people think I have to watch bad movies and TV shows.

[DiegoPalacios]

The issue with building a cinematic universe is that you need multiple successful movies set in the same universe to do so. Marvel during phase 1 started with self contained superhero stories that were entertaining. There were some hints of how it was connected, for example, Captain America's getting his shield thanks to stark industries, but that wasn't necessary to understand or enjoy the story. Only after Thor, Iron Man and Captain America movies were a success we got the first Avengers movie and made the connection more explicit.

As this cinematic universe expands, you need more successful stories so people get excited when they connect. While phase 4 had some successes they also got lots of flops, this combined with some of the most beloved old heroes not being there anymore made many viewers lose interest.

Some may also argue that, endgame felt more like a climatic finale for the Marvel cinematic universe and a good point to close the story.

Come on!!!!, it's in the friggin name.........ENDGAME

Superhero movies can be self contained or interconnected, but now many executives rush into trying to build a cinematic universe and make it last as long as possible because in the case of success it means looooooooooooots of money. But a cinematic universe can't be built on a few movies.

[MK_Wizard]

Yeah. I have to agree with you there. In my mind, after Endgame, I was done and the execs should have been too. Let that era end on a high note.

I think it was also a case of being the exception not the standard. Back in the day, Batman, Superman, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, Blade and the rest didn't need to be part of a cinematic universe. Yes, they shared a world, but they each stood on their own two feet which is the way a superhero film should be. I like crossovers, but even then, occasionally. And once you find yourself making more than three, it's time to consider that maybe just maybe, this series needs to be told as a show not a film.

[cherrystark]

You're right. In a lot of cases, people don't understand the difference between a story that can be told in one shot and a story that needs to go on longer. You see it happen with novels when the story was clearly done in one book but the author decides to stretch it for 15 books. You also see it when people complain about book to movie adaptations - you NEED 27+ hours to explore every single aspect of the story, including the character development and connections. *It's this reason that if Twilight actually does get adapted for TV, I will watch it. We could finally get elements of the Twilight fanon added to the story.

But in the case of superheroes, while I agree that superhero work is better in TV form like shows like Arrow, Flash, and the Boys, I think people are tired for superhero stuff is because they don't mean anything. When I was a kid and the X-Men movies came out, one of the first things I learned was that it was a metaphor for the Civil Rights Movement. Spiderman gave us "with great power comes great responsibility". Early Iron Man gave us a story about growth and redemption.

There is a great TV show from the mid 2010s that explores superpowers as a type of disability. The work stuck with me because the characters all paid a price for existing with superpowers. They weren't trying to be vigilante superheroes - they were just trying to live. A MG book series that I love explores superpowers as a metaphor for you developing talents, self-control, and accepting yourself as you are.

But you don't get that anymore. Superhero women singularly fight the "patriarchy" and often only have to deal with "accepting themselves". And male heroes are being phased out for the sake of empowerment. We don't want a neverending series of sequels and recycled plots. We want stories to mean something.

[thepenmonster]

It's almost as if they gave their story an ending already.

[NickRowler]

I think outside of fatigue, the newer Marvel films were doomed to fail because not all superheroes have what it takes to caught the interest of mainstream audiences. People like Spiderman, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, and Captain America. These are old characters who become well known pop culture icons long before the MCU films, and could be recognized by people who never read the comics. Trying to get audiences interested in newer or lesser known characters is a huge risk. Why would your average Joe/Jane care about Captain Marvel when they have given barely any effort to establish her as a character. Even in her debut film, she felt like a cardboard cut out.

Side note, they played the song Just a Girl while Captain Marvel was fighting in her film. It felt more condescending than empowering. A lot of the female representation in the MCU has been very hollow. I think Mighty Thor could have had potential to being great but they decided to kill her off. Ugh this company sucks.

I feel like the other issue is that you rarely seen much unique style or direction from these films. They hire amazing directors yet producers force them to do the paint by number formula. A lot of these films just feel too similar.

[DiegoPalacios]

Trying to get audiences interested in newer or lesser known characters is a huge risk. Why would your average Joe/Jane care about Captain Marvel when they have given barely any effort to establish her as a character. Even in her debut film, she felt like a cardboard cut out.

Maybe if she was written better it might have worked.

Guardians of the galaxy, despite being pretty obscure when it comes to Marvel franchises worked wonders because you can tell the writers knew what they were doing. Also the fact that it feels more like a sci-fi adventure with some comedy elements than a superhero movie probably helps.

[BoomerZ]

Guardians of the galaxy, despite being pretty obscure when it comes to Marvel franchises worked wonders because you can tell the writers knew what they were doing. Also the fact that it feels more like a sci-fi adventure with some comedy elements than a superhero movie probably helps.

James Gunn literally threw away everything about the comics and made is own movie with those characters in name only. That is not a good example of using the comic lore to make a good movie. The reason it worked is no one knows anything about Guardians so he could do whatever he wanted. The problem is that movie taught the wrong lesson to Marvel. That was the start of every other line has to be a joke and meta humour everywhere. That is Gunns's schtick. He is a Troma guy (Troma made horrible camp movies like Toxic Avenger). So then every marvel comics had to do it.

[NickRowler]

Maybe if she was written better it might have worked.

I think also not spending $300mil to make the film would have also helped.

[MK_Wizard]

I think just plain ol' writing WELL would have helped. Wonder Woman worked. Ghost in the Shell (the anime not the live action). Battle Angel Alita worked. Nimona worked. Comic genre movies with female MC work, but you have to put in the work.

[GodbreakerComic]

Side note, they played the song Just a Girl while Captain Marvel was fighting in her film. It felt more condescending than empowering.

Hilariously bad. The songs meaning didn't even match what was happening in the scene.

Most licensed music in super hero movies is just a bad choice. That reminds me of Suicide Squad using "Fortunate Son" to introduce Killer Croc.... what? Why? "What licensed song should we use to introduce this sewer dwelling crocodile man?" "How about an anti-war anthem about Vietnam?"

[KevinReijnders]

In the case of captain Marvel, no amount of good writing would have saved that movie's perception (frankly, I think the movie was a solid entry in the MCU. Nothing spectacular, just solid)

People decided to hate the movie before it even released, all because of the actress' political views.

And tbh, Wonder Woman wasn't that good either, it just looked better because it was compared to the abysmal BvS. Battle Angel was also thoroughley dissapointing imo.

[MK_Wizard]

Since we're on that subject...

I liked Wonder Woman better, but I get that everyone will have different views. The one hill I will die on over it though is that Wonder Woman's theme song was dynamite. In fact, I think theme songs in general have become a lost art. A lot of them sound the same and generic. Though Wondie's theme stays with you the way Michael Keaton's Batman theme and Superman's March do. That theme song IS Wonder Woman's theme now.

[vapidink]

Comic movies also have the issue of not being well suited for lengthy series of adaptations, like what Marvel is doing and DC is attempting. Comics work in spite of the long and never-ending storylines because people are invested in characters that have been around for decades. You can't do that with movies. Actors age and move on and suddenly you're down one iconic character and a good portion of the fanbase that was in it for that character. It's why less people care about Marvel now that most of the original characters are gone.

The average movie goer is also not going to want to keep up with dozens of movies just to get the entire story. They want to know what happens next with the parts they care about without having to sit through movies they're ambivalent about just to get bits of the story. Marvel is trying to translate the way comics are consumed to the big screen, but it's missing the point on why these two types of media are different.

[MK_Wizard]

THANK YOU.

When it comes to Superhero movies, one is enough. If it needs a sequel or sequels, make a TV series. And to be honest, I always felt Superhero tales suited TV series better anyway for character development, story arcs and plot.

[vapidink]

Haven't even watched most of the newer Marvel series because I just kind of stopped caring, haha. I kinda liked some of the old DC shows because they were all their own thing, so if you didn't watch one it didn't matter. The best were the animated series though. Justice League an Justice League Unlimited in particular did a really good job at telling complex, stand-alone stories while developing a whole bunch of characters.

[MK_Wizard]

Yes, yes and YES. At one point, Marvel was going in that same direction with 90s and the long lost series Spider-Man the New Animated Series on MTV, but.... Marvel decided to aim things solely at kids and since then, its cartoons have been trapped in Neverland. And I do not mean that in a nice way.

If I can be honest, I am one the few fans who hated Spectacular Spider-Man and as someone who followed the cartoons even after it, I feel like it did more damage to Marvel, Spider-Man especially, when it came to TV series than good.

[GodbreakerComic]

The "cinematic universe" stuff has run its course, too. I feel like audiences (myself definitely included) want tight self contained stories again. A movie with a beginning, middle, and end. Not a 2 hour piece of "content" designed to just set up the next 2 hour piece of "content".

The Batman was my favourite super hero movie in YEARS because it simply being a contained story was such a breath of fresh air. It served no masters.

Also give me that Batman/Catwoman they-want-to-but-they-cant romantic dynamic all day. That is WAY more compelling than "will-they-wont-they" and I'll die on that silly hill.