Ah yes -- I can definitely see this spiraling out of control and leaving a big mess for the mods.
High emotions, more threads, people talking over each other:
Business as usual in the forums
Just saw the thread.....while the topic leant towards asking about how to find inner strenght when you dont have people you can lean on, the way it was worded (specially the title) was waaaaaay more provocative than intended.
Havent read the whole thread (its kinda long), so i am not sure if the discussion escalated into any hostility.
On one side, i understand ratique`s concerns of the risk of things escalating out of control, the advice on seeking profesional help, while it could be considered generic, is better than relying of unqualified strangers on the internet.
A sad truth is that not everyone knows how to help a person who suffers depression, specially if they dont know said person well.
Maybe the paradox here was that damage control was neccesary to be done quickly (some threads escalate way too fast), so a single mod cant read the whole topic before reaching such decision. Maybe the decision was rushed, maybe it was a good call. I should read the whole topic to properly judge that.
Maybe a better explanation on why the thread is getting closed could have saved some trouble. Now is up to Op and Ratique to talk things out.
I think it does not happen as much as before because people know what will happen and they keep quiet.
It's so sad I don't even want to fight anymore...
And everything is so incredibly selfish... i still don't get how only the creator of the post is considered a victim when a post is closed.. that's not how discussion works,
If a group of people are in a room discussing and suddently someone shove everyone outside and slam the door at my nose, I don't think people would not see me as a victim because I was not the one starting the discussion.
But on a forum, all the sudden, it's ok. It's normal.
I don't get it . I've been moderating since the mid 90' and I've seen that horrible mindset emerge and take over... Terribly sad...
Well, at least, here they don't ban you for questioning mod's actions. At the most of old forums, you got banned immediately for it.
Depends on forums I suppose. I never moderated a forum with such a policy, or even used one as a member (at least not for long.. probably it happened a few times and it made me leave the forum. I don't remember a specific case though).
The forums I moderated years ago were the wild west xD I miss that. Here you have to be so careful with your words to not offend anyone, and things are taken out of context so often that I find it too tiresome to start a discussion. But cool people and helpful threads keep me here ^^
And agree, that mindset is getting more common. Probably the reason why discord and apps like that are so popular.
Very good observation about the 'taking things out of context'. The best way I can express it, is that I feel forum etiquette dropped bluntness for manipulation.
Not a good change ...
The levels of hypocrisy and counterproductivity are so absurdly high these days.
Each time I think I'm blase... I'm not yet.
It wasn't that long ago I was being labeled as a paranoid rabble rouser for pointing out such simple things.
None of this is brand new... these forums had select groups in discord channels discussing how to manipulate other forum users. You had concentrated attacks to flag comments by specific users to silence their voice.
I think the current state of the forums is at least a bit more transparent now.
Haha, I'm often told I'm paranoid too, but especially IRL, because the fact I am autistic and thus VERY awkward in person, make people believe I'm bad at detecting manipulation.
But actually, I'm very good at it, in a way that may even compromise more my social life than my awkwardness do. I'm a real Cassandre, always smells manipulation much before most others. So, either 1) I speak up, upset people and pass as a crazy paranoid, or 2) I shut up and feel guilty. I still do 2), because when I do 1) not only people get upset on the spot, but they often get upset a second time when they realize I was right. Like, I did not insist enough and failed to protect them 
That's a big reason I prefer casual, online friendships, actually.
But it does not stop the uneasiness and the sadness of seeing manipulation at work. For example, I saw in the last few months a person getting 'initiated' to how to manipulate people by other forum users. One more manipulator, and that very disturbing notion that they are both a victim and a bully. Manipulation is something I really have difficulty to live with.
The only silver lining is that I suppose I'm relatively safe from falling for it, but well, no one is 100% immune.
I'm actually writing about that these days because I'd like to consult someone for a Canadian diagnosis of my social issues and that 'problem' of detection of manipulation is one of the main things I want to bring up. It's a bit paradoxal, I know.
Manipulation is a funny thing.
It can be a positive thing if the intent is primarily towards a positive goal or outcome. That stuff doesn't bother me per se. Sometimes it's even a welcomed way to soften a situation.
Currently the weirdest form of it that's bugging me is @jensrichard77.
Positive guy...just having fun with it ...but why do they have TWO forum accounts and the ability to edit their title? In terms of self promoting themselves as a creator... and their series... it's an insane advantage to manipulate the forums. An advantage no one else has...as far as I know.
Because they're presenting it with good humor (and probably mod approval) it doesn't seem to get questioned at all. But man, it just seems weird to me.
"That`s the use of a high charisma stat ". XD Personally i applaud his creativity.
Now, to reach higher levels of forum interferance, there are some guidelines in terms of participation. For example, when i stay active enough i am able to edit topic titles. I almost never do it tho, and when i do, i explain Op why to check if they are okay with it.
I remember there was a link where you can check it out. If i am not wrong, i think it was in the Tapas guidelines?
---- Suicide trigger warning ----
Now, I'm talking detached from the topic, which was raised recently, just in general...
There is some... alienation (up to cowardice) in how people are dealing with traumatized/suicidal persons.
The most of the people are just pathalogically afraid to accidentally take responsibility for the actions of such person. Standard answer "refer to healthcare professional", which we hear everywhere, in the most of cases is just a way to run away from responsibility for your words, to switch this responsibility at that mythical "professional" as external force. Only few really care, will a person really do it or not, and what experience will they have with that "professional".
Did you ever think, what really happen when a person follows you advice to go to "professional" (if they really will follow it at all)? The scenarios can be very diverse.
Talking from my experience and experience of other people, whom I know, the following options are possible:
- "Healthcare professional" just refers them to another "professional", just as you did, because they also want to avoid responsibility, just as you do. Yes, there are many psychologists, psychotherapists etc., who honestly refuse to work with a patients with suicidal thoughts. It's reality.
- Another scenario: "Healthcare professional" forces a person to hospitalization against their will, for the same reason - to get rid of them.
-- In this case, hospital doctors... switch their responsibility on meds, in turn. I.e. in a hospital, a person will likely be medicated with strong meds - often there will be old meds, with a lot of side effects, because they're cheap. Maybe, again, even forcefully. Of course, these meds will probably (not always) really hold them from suicide (or any other active actions), but just through suppression of their neural system, not through solving their problems. Results of such treatment can be very different. - If "professional" (whether it is an initial therapist, to whom patient referred, or docs in a mental hospital, where they were sent) give meds:
-- In the best case, these meds will give a temporal relief.
-- In the very-very best case, this relief will be enough for a person to come to their senses and take grips on themselves. But not always.
-- In the most common case, meds will do nothing aside of side effects.
-- In the worst case, meds will make things worse. - Sometimes "professional" directly makes things worse by ignorant advises and boorishness.
- And only sometimes a professional is really helpful...
Finding a good healthcare professional is important, but it's non-trivial task. You may be lucky and do it quickly. But, as said above, it maybe a long road as well. You never know. And a person needs a support, encouragement and soft, friendly guidance during the whole this road.
Of course, I don't claim that anyone is obligated to provide such empathetic guidance to strangers or something. Just pointing out, that this is complicated topic.
Sure...but Oddly Vanilla has 6 narrators...if I had a forum account for all six of their characters and drove threads to recognize and promote our group's series...you think the mods are gonna be cool with that?
I dislike manipulation in all its forms, even with a positive goal. Probably because it's often deviating toward something else, and even more likely because I feel the kind of situations that can be appeased by manipulation are often situations that will require to be tackled directly one day or another; appeasing with manipulation only delay the moment we have to deal with it. But I can see cases where its useful to delay, and in these cases I would not look negatively at the person doing the manipulation (especially when it's to gain time to let someone cool down. Totally justified to manipulate a little bit, as it's positive for everyone involved).
I don't mind Jens because it's so huge. Not what I see as manipulation, because it require to be hidden somewhat.
Jens' activities are right in the open (at least imo).