11 / 16
Jan 2023

So, I recently got a comment critiquing the art in my comic- first one I've gotten without asking for one, so yay a first I guess.

But all I ended up feeling was confused. In short- I was told that I "make the anatomy and faces not so great sometimes," and to 'pay more attention if things just don't look right.' Not much elaboration on that- and I was like while yeah, I have janky or anatomically incorrect drawings, I felt like I'd been doing pretty well on that front with my recent episodes (esp compared to older episodes)

I spend time planning my poses and take my time with pages so I guess I felt a bit of frustration since they mentioned that they "know you're trying to post regularly and not focus on imperfections." Like yes, but I also spend a good amount of time making sure my work looks nice so I know I'm not rushing through it most of the time.

But ofc, I was like surely if someone took the time to let me know this, there's something that's bothering them about the art? Maybe I can't see it- and when I do see it I kind of tend to move on and not pay too much attention to it.

I probably am taking this a bit too seriously, but yeah. Maybe I'm missing something so I'm happy to accept any sort of feedback from you guys!

  • created

    Jan '23
  • last reply

    Feb '23
  • 15

    replies

  • 1.0k

    views

  • 9

    users

  • 32

    likes

  • 9

    links

tbh I'm trying to get better at taking critiques, so this post exists for this reason as well

Critique can definitely hit hard, I get that. I've been in the art industry for... like twenty years (showing my age here), and it still hits hard sometimes.

For me, it's easier to get a range of responses. Posting up a page or two (don't post the entire comic... I mean, you can, but you have a much higher chance of getting good, detailed feedback if you post a page or two instead) and waiting a bit for multiple responses. If a lot of people agree-- either by liking a specific comment or saying the same thing as others-- then it's a general consensus you can rely on. But getting feedback from a single person, especially if they themselves are not an artist, isn't always useful. Sometimes it's just outright wrong, even.

Yeah! Definitely something to consider.

The critique itself was super vague, just said thing x wasn't good with no elaboration, so my first assumption was that they weren't an artist. But then I kind of went...well if someone's not an artist they can still point out something that looks off, right?

But yeah, looking through my recent episodes, the only janky panels I found were ones of characters far away or for panels that weren't as crucial to the scene. And if I were to put 100% of my effort into making those panels look amazing, then I feel like it'd be a bit of a waste of time tbh. But then again, if they did mean different panels, then I wouldn't know cos it wasn't specified :cry_02: So I'd say that's why I'm asking for a few more opinions here

I had a look at your most recent few pages since I assume that reflects your current skill level, and I don't see any issues.

Your poses, perspective angles, and anatomy are better than something like 90% of people who post here (not trying to insult people, just being honest). The few issues I see are things you would expect in any published comic. Maybe an odd angle to the tip of a nose or something non-consequential. Literally every artist will have minor mistakes in their comic. There are hundreds upon hundreds of images and if you spent time rendering and refining each image as though it were a portrait commission, you'd never get anywhere.

I think you're fine. I especially like the distinct differences in face structures between characters, and you have good consistency in keeping those structures for each character through your story. That can be hard to do.

The style is pretty cool, and unique. It stands out. It's pretty solid, honestly.

Ahhh... I've said this on many a thread and I'll say it again: Readers are good at noticing issues...but they're not always good at offering solutions to them. :sweat_02: They also tend to focus in on visible, but shallow or localised issues like "This guy's arm looks weird!!!" rather than looking at wider problems across the comic... because they often don't really know the cause of the issues, or even how to work out what it is, lacking the experience or deeper knowledge.

So, let me try to give the most useful feedback I can...

To preface, this is a well-drawn comic. This art is publishable quality, and any rough edges still fall within what I confidently feel an editor or publisher would consider "acceptable". Most published books have the occasional awkward panel, and I think getting too tied up in trying to make a comic look perfect all the way through can be a dangerous trap to fall into when in reality most successful pro comickers their skill is making work that looks "consistently okay" and deliver to the deadlines.

But, let's get on and point out some issues...

Value, light and staging:
I know this is a spooky, gloomy comic, but the values are often just a touch dark and low-contrast. It's often a little muddy looking overall because so much of the colour in both the characters and backgrounds is grouped around a sort of narrow band of lower-mid-end values and often panels are very dominated by a lot of warm brown colours and greys.
So! Your homework! Go and have a look at some Hitchcock movies! Hitchcock is so good at really using light and shadow to maintain a dark and dramatic tone while highlighting the focus of the tension, action or emotion:

I also think looking at some comics drawn by Mike Mignola, like Hellboy, even though his style is very different, would be helpful, because he's SO good at using light and shadow to create depth and draw the eye where it needs to be.

Try to think more deliberately about where you place light, shadow and pops of colour or brightness to deliberately draw the eye where it needs to be. I feel like you're currently perhaps thinking of your panels almost like you're shooting a documentary where the camera is kinda just there in the room, and the lighting is just whatever the light is in the room; try to study the more deliberate staging and lighting used in a movie, and use it to add punch and focus to your compositions.

The anatomy:

Sometimes the anatomy is a little wobbly, and part of why it stands out when it is, is actually because it's so detailed and because in other areas it's well-drawn, so you've really picked a style that makes things hard for yourself; more cartoony styles are a bit more forgiving. :sweat_02:

You have a tendency to approach your figures by putting a lot of care into the individual parts that make up a figure; giving them a lot of really nice detail, like creases on clothing, really nicely drawn noses where you can see the volume all up inside the nostrils, great mouths with creases and teeth... but precisely because you're approaching it like this, sometimes you'll have a really well-drawn foot with lovingly rendered laces on the shoes, but it's on a leg that's a bit too skinny and attached a little off-line, or the legs aren't in proportion with the body or something, and the high detail and realism of the drawing on the parts draws attention to the issues, so they don't feel intentional like the work of say Adrian Alphona (whose work I think you'd love).

The solution is that you could do with spending some time getting used to blocking out whole figures before you focus in on those details, so that you can spot these issues more effectively.

I recommend the book "Drawn to Life" by Walt Stanchfield (You'll love it. I know you'll love that book). Aaaaand... your exercise will be drawing quick life sketches on a timer (say 5 mins) from life or photos in a sketchbook and with a ballpoint pen, focused on the overall volumes and areas of light and shadow (because you'll have to, you won't have time to focus in on those details).

Hopefully this should help you out with these areas! You got this! :coffee_love:

Honestly, this just doesn't seem like a great critique to me? "Pay more attention to things that don't look right", like what?? I mean the best way to say what you think looks wrong is to elaborate on that, without a clear understanding of what's throwing people off it's just hard to see yourself.
I think it's okay if a non-artist notices some mistakes, it's fine. The only person who is giving me critique on how characters look is my writer (who is very much not an artist), and a lot of times I tend to agree with him when I understand what he means by "this face looks wrong". Sometimes I just say " No, sorry, no can do, I literally don't know what I can do with this to make it look better". In the end I am working under assumption I am doing my best all the time and if there are still some imperfections, I will notice them tomorrow and try to deal with them on the next page.
If we talk about your art in particular, I find it really good in general and it most definitely becoming better. If there are some random mistakes (like I can notice hands/feet on some panels being a bit too small), I don't see them being too distracting, they are not constantly repeating and well... We can't do make every panel completely perfect, especially assuming we are working on a schedule.

Pretty much agree here.

There's clear progression in quality and I think, OP, you're doing just fine. It looks like your work is steadily improving and that you mostly know what you need to work on. There are small issues, but as Kelheor said, they aren't consistent and it's more small oversights now and again. You can't obsess over making everything absolutely perfect. Just do your best, try and keep on eye on your weaknesses and continue to get better.

@darthmongoose has some good points on lighting and values. I'm personally fine with the darker stuff that you have, but another suggestion if you want to amp up your values and all that is Spawn. Really great use of powerful contrast and lighting while keeping dark themes.

While I have nothing to contribute in terms of advice on the artwork itself (my art skills should be considered either abysmal or nonexistent), I just want to reinforce the people here who said not every critique is something you should necessarily take as being 100% true.

Don't get me wrong, I think they're super important and can really help us develop our craft, as long as they're constructive. To me, a good critique is one that points out not just to where the problem is but to what it is as well (and huge bonus points if it also suggests how it might be fixed or improved). At the end of the day, people all have different opinions, and sometimes something presented as a critique is just an opinion (which is completely valid as well, but we need to differentiate between things that should be improved and things that just don't fit some people's tastes).

If you get a comment that's too vague or that you as the creator can't really understand, it's always worth trying to get more information from the person who made it, or consult other people/creators - just like you did here! And it looks like you got quite a lot of helpful, detailed advice too which is awesome. Now all you have to do is decide what to take and implement it ^^

Yeaaaaaaaah... if I'm being honest I knew something was a little off about the faces, but I didn't say anything because I didn't know how to describe it (and I suck at art. Usually when I try helping other people out in that area I make it a little worse... I'm not exactly sure if that's my area). I do hold-off on critiques for writing though unless a person asks for it since a lot of the time these projects are usually made because the artists just wanna make something.

But critiques can hit hard. I remember when my Dad was like "YOUR WRITING IS SO GOOD" and when I met this person who said "Your writing sucks" (he was a brit too, so yeah it stung). My OCD was so bad that I was afraid of writing for a little while until I met this Australian dude who was the complete opposite of the brit. (off-topic, Australians are the most sweetest people I've ever met).

I then started taking critiques well. Let me rephrase that. COMIC/SCRIPT WRITING/VIDEO CRITIQUES. I'm still kickboxing and I still beat myself up because I get corrected (figurally not literally lmao). When I tried writing for a novel, I remember being annoyed at my abilities to the point where I just quit altogether. THAT MIGHT CHANGE since I started reading real books.... but like... agh... I envy novel writers.

I will say the only thing I suck at critique wise is when a person says "This joke is too offensive". It's tough when you got the same person of a particular group busting up at the joke and telling me why it works, but then you got another person who says "this is bad" and disagrees with the person who laughed at it despite being in the same group. I did get corrected like twice from people coming from good places.

I do think it's important to critique yourself though. No matter what you do, your work is going to be flawed in some fashion. The best we can do is try and plug up as many holes as possible. People will appreciate that.

But I recommend talking audience as much as possible (I make sure to comment on every person whenever I get the chance). This includes the ones that swear at you :v !!! I am... not kidding. Peace always wins folks... eventually.

Everyone else has already added some good feedback, so I won't say aaaas much as I normally would. Readers can be pretty finicky sometimes about discrepancies, and downright rude in their delivery of said discrepancies, or sharing their preferences. If someone shares genuinely good feedback, that works with your comic, then try playing around with it. Otherwise, don't worry too much about it, you'll get more unsolicited feedback as you gain more followers.

I agree with Moose that your value and lighting can use some work, your shading is very samey. There isn't a whole lot of difference between outdoor and indoor lighting, there's not hard vs. soft light/shadows, and it tends to be at similar angles on the characters. This causes the mood to be a little flat.
Aside from Hitchcock movies I would suggest check out general horror cinematography analyses as well, or general horror movie analyses, they may give you an idea of what you can do to give your more frightening or hectic scenes some oomph.

Color Theory in Horror might be of use to you, or you could check out this person's whole playlist, they all have some interesting thoughts on the genre.

Super Eyepatch Wolf's video on Junji Ito is pretty interesting.

As well as his video on Perfect Blue.

I also rather like Brady Bessette's cinematography 101 video on shooting a horror movie.

Here is another good playlist of composition, coloring and lighting in cinematography.

Even the most subtle horror is very visually driven, and relies a lot on angles, colors, and shading/lighting. (Mystery too!) If you have time, try playing around with dramatic setting with standalone panels or quick concept illustrations. Make yourself a little uncomfortable with angles and colors or contrasts, don't be scared of sucking because it'll just be for casual practice.

One thing I notice personally as a reader is your linework is a little weak compared to your crisp cel shading, and is sometimes a little wobbly or sketchy in a way that doesn't quite fit the rest of your style. Now I'm not going to pretend to know how digital inking feels since it's been a hot minute since I've worked with that medium, so I'll just share general stuff I've learned.

So you got some line variation going on, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of rhyme or reason to it, and how your lines taper off makes foreground/main focus stuff blend in with the backgrounds. It's also a little jagged, making characters feel stiff. Line weight helps with guiding the reader's eye to certain parts of a scene, or character, as well as giving them a feeling of weight and flow within the world they're in. You can also use ink to add a feeling of urgency to action focused scenes by using more jagged, sketchy lines to convey strong, swift movements.
Similar to what I previously suggested, in your spare time try sketching out a stand alone panel or concept illustration, and use it to play around with inking techniques. You can even combine the ink practice with your color and value, try different hatching techniques (Or free hatching brushes.) with colours, or scenes. You may find out some really interesting things!
And again, don't be don't stress sucking with these, they're just fun sketches to try out new things.

Unfortunately the only inking tutorial I remember off the top of my head is this one1. It's for traditional, but gives good advice on what I'm talking about with line weight.

Here's a video with some digital hatching techniques that may be helpful to you.

Sure, this stuff is going to take a while to do, but the more you do it the better and faster you'll get. The nice thing about doing a free-to-read comic is you can afford to take longer to improve some stuff with your work, so don't be afraid to go in small breaks, or take longer to get episodes out to play around with your style.
With that, the same can be said for my feedback. Given your comic is free you can totally ignore this if you don't find it useful, or interesting in any way. I figured I would just throw my opinion out there in case you got anything out of it. Either way, do what you feel is best for you and your work! If you don't feel you can take the time to do extra stuff, or don't think it would benefit your story, don't do it.

Good luck! Regardless of the feedback I really enjoy your comic, and have been reading it practically since you started hanging out on the forum. You're still doing a great job, and you put in a shit-ton of polish despite working on this for free.

yeah sometimes I get feedback from readers and I'm just scratching my head because it'll be like--opposite feedback of what someone else told me. Can leave you wondering "so which one is right?" and like at the end of the day you gotta go with your gut.

And like when it comes to art style, so much is not only entirely subjective, it's also really dependant on how much time you have. Like my comic has some STINKER panels (especially after I got long covid lmao) and like whatever, I have to finish it, and you kinda do those panels knowing that, even at your lowest days, you're still going to impress most of your readers, because never forget they're probably still like struggling to draw a stucci s. That's about the level most people quit doing art youknow (although they still appreciate looking at it.)

But also...you do horror, so this an interesting critique. Horror purposely makes things look a bit on edge and uncanny all the time. But I'm of the opinion that the process of creating a comic and posting a comic for other people to see and to try and gain a readership that competes with the thousands of other comics on these sites, is in itself an education, so just keep doing what you're doing.

i just thought the faces were weird because the setting and characters are weird/off kilter.. of course we can always improve our fundamentals, but to me, it's fine. Vague criticism is the worst form of criticism, in my opinion.

Ahhh, this is some great advice, thank you so much!!

I'll definitely have to look into and study shading, especially for lineart and cell shading in particular. I find this is way less of an issue with my paintings, since I have such a range of tones to use, but I cell shading is a whole other beast :sweat_02: I'll have to experiment with that a bit. I'm also realising I've restricted myself to keeping my lighting "realistic" to the scene.

And I honestly never realised i was doing that with the anatomy! But i do know I struggle with drawing legs for some godforsaken reason, I definitely need to do some more studies to prevent things looking a bit off. But I think it can be a little to clear as to what things I enjoy drawing more (faces, clothing folds hands) so I need to put a bit more focus into the rest of the figure.

Thanks for the critique, and I'll look into the resources you've listed too! :hype_01:

Just wanted to say thank you all for the great advice! I really appreciate it :coffee_love: I don't have the time to respond to all of them, so letting y'all know I've read through and considered what you had to say!

1 month later

closed Feb 28, '23

This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.