Thoughts on SAI?

ghostnxs 2015-07-14 18:28:57 UTC #32

Its not just being able to do it, its also about efficiency. Perspective lines don't take two seconds, maybe if you're draw 2 objects or don't draw backgrounds. Oh and by the way this statement you wrote sounds like an argument. Its sounds kind of degrading. Sai's purpose is to be light weight and limited and easy on the user. "this software make digital art more enjoyable and comfortable" is a quote directly from their website. While Clip Studio Paint/Manga Studio's purpose is to make creating comics efficient and fast without costing as much. Just check out their front page. Even pros have trouble with perspective and difficult angles. http://www.clipstudio.net/en.
Like @AnnaLandin said

And by your logic the lack of a text tool isn't a real short coming because their are multiple methods to add text in sai that aren't difficult at all. All you need is a free word processor and print screen. You're comment sounds a little to high and mighty.

nobody 2015-07-14 18:45:30 UTC #33

I was going to say the same thing, it's not about laziness, it's about efficiency. And the more efficient the program you use is, the more comics you'll have time to make. If anything, we're all lazy for using any kind of digital drawing tool, compared to those who draw traditionally, right?

I know how to draw in perspective, but it's really time-consuming, and so I get bored, and so I often choose to draw things in a way that I won't have to worry too much about perspective. I use Photoshop now, and that will always be my preferred drawing tool, but I am seriously considering buying Clip Studio Paint or Manga Studio just for the sake of getting more help with the perspective drawing - it would save me SO MUCH TIME.

TristanJensen 2015-07-14 19:23:28 UTC #34

I kind of lost tack of what everyone was talking about and went and bought it
Its pretty neat so far

Alli 2015-07-14 20:02:46 UTC #35

I admit I haven't used much of SAI, but I highly recommend trying out OpenCanvas 6. There's a 120 day trial period. It DOES have a text tool and the program is pretty simple to figure out.

UltHamBro 2015-07-14 23:15:21 UTC #36

If you use Sai for the drawing itself, and then Photoshop or another editor of your choice, I doubt that you'll need anything else.
I tended to add colour with Photoshop, but I've recently tried doing it in Sai and I like the results.

serenitysquirrel 2015-07-15 01:20:48 UTC #37

I liked Sai, but (especialy for comics) I LOVE Manga Studio. ALSO, it's normaly about 50$ but is on sale (sale ends today) for 15$
15$ is not much for such an amazing and powerful tool.

http://my.smithmicro.com/manga-studio-5.html

AnnaLandin 2015-07-15 05:02:01 UTC #38

You assume that everyone works with the same methods you do, and with the same advantages. There are artists out there who struggle with shaky hands, or who suffer from astigmatism, just to name a few - and the latter tends to mess up their ability to see what they're doing wrong when they're drawing perspective. Having tools to help with that is super-useful - and for people like them, SAI is limited. And before you say that they don't matter - more people struggle with these problems than you might think.

Also, this is a forum for a comics-website. Most people here are looking to make comics. For them, using Manga Studio/Clip Studio instead of SAI makes sense because where SAI is your average drawing tool, MS/CS is geared specifically towards making comics, and contains convenient tools for making panels, speechbubbles, text, etc., etc. I'm not saying you can't make comics with SAI; I'm just saying that there are programs that make it easier.

Sure, you can work around SAI's lack of a text-tool. But I've found it more convenient to be able to do everything in the same program; that way, changes are easier to make, and the final result looks nicer. Why go for a program that doesn't have a native text-tool when you can go for one that does?

As for if I'm being high and mighty - you can be the judge of that, but I'd like to point out that it's not that I don't like SAI. I use SAI daily, and I fully acknowledge it's a good program for drawing. I just thing MS/CS is better when it comes to making comics.

Kelty 2015-07-15 06:49:19 UTC #39

shaky hands

SAI has a stabilizer.

Same advantages

Good artist privilege. Making people who suck at art look bad. How dare you.

make it easier

i.e. cheating

AnnaLandin 2015-07-15 07:00:56 UTC #40

Yes it does - but it doesn't have a line-tool like Photoshop or Manga Studio does, which is useful to have while inking architecture. Like I said, I'm not saying SAI is bad. I'm just saying Manga Studio has some advantages, tool-wise, that SAI doesn't.

I'm not talking about people who lack artistic skill. I'm talking about people who have very real, physical limitations. There are professional comic artists who struggle with things like astigmatism. To just name one random example; Peter Bergting, who is currently drawing Mike Mignola's Baltimore, has said Manga Studio helps counter his astigmatism (or astigmatism-like problems). And that guy has no problems with artistic skill.

Not to mention the fact that there are people who want to draw comics at a higher pace, and Manga Studio-tools help speed up the process. Being able to, in a quick and easy way, create panels, speechbubbles, text, and draw complicated perspectives with tools native to the program you're using, is a distinct advantage to making do without them.

Is using a ruler when drawing traditionally cheating too? Perspective tools don't draw for you. They just make it easier to keep track of your guidelines, and help cut down on the time you spend staring at your sketch, wondering if it's correct or if you've messed up somewhere.

There is no badge you get for drawing every line of your perspective-sketch freehand. It is an admirable skill to have, certainly, and I wish I was better at it than I am, but it does not make you morally superior to people who need a bit of help in getting it right.

Kelty 2015-07-15 07:03:43 UTC #41

it's literally a computer program dude calm the hell down

i got a spooky scary story for the lot of you: paper. pencil. real life. real skill. overcoming shortcomings on your own instead of having a computer do it for you and never actually improving.

epiale 2015-07-15 07:04:03 UTC #42

Sai does absolutely have a line and a curve tool, and both work very well, just throwing that out there. ,':y

Like, I even linked to several circle tutorials that make use of them earlier, haha.

Kelty 2015-07-15 07:06:24 UTC #43

also SAI has a line tool and like a huge majority of the stuff you say it lacks.

AnnaLandin 2015-07-15 07:13:35 UTC #44

I'm fairly calm, and also not a dude.

Here's another spooky story for you: I've been drawing all my life, and have, though hard work, acquired artistic skills that I am quite proud of. I've faced my artistic limitations, and I have worked hard to overcome them - with pencil, paper and real life skills. It used to be I couldn't draw people in profile, and avoided drawing houses like the plague - but now I don't, because I've worked hard to learn. 99% of my comic is drawn without tool-assisted perspective, because most of the time, I don't need it.

And I still think perspective-tools are a useful thing to have. Did you know, using perspective-tools can be a nice first step to help people wrap their heads around the rules of perspective, which can be hard for newbies to learn and understand? Did you know, it's perfectly possible to start out using perspective tools, and through doing so, begin to learn how to do it freehand?

It is perfectly possible to make comics in SAI. And it is perfectly possible to draw amazing things in SAI. I'm not denying this. All I'm saying is that Manga Studio, as a software, has certain advantages that SAI doesn't. That's my entire point.

@epiale In that case, you're working with a more up-to-date version of SAI than I am. If the newer versions have line-tools, that's great!

I'm now going to stop posting in this thread, because we're clearly not going to agree on anything.

Kelty 2015-07-15 07:17:06 UTC #45

oh wow so special do you want an award

also it's in literally the first version of SAI. We're not going to agree because you don't know anything about the program and insist that some other program is better, which doesn't even matter because once you learn a program you can use it as efficiently as your paint-by-numbers comic making program.

AnnaLandin 2015-07-15 07:34:51 UTC #46

One final post in this thread, and then I'm really out of here, as it seems pointless to keep going after this.

No. You're the one who brought up the point of having real artistic skills - I thought it might be relevant to mention that I have them.

1.) I just opened my version of SAI, and dug through every menu available to me, and I cannot find a proper line-tool anywhere, nor any curve tools. So either I am literally blind, or I am working with a version of SAI that does not have a line tool, or a curve-tool. It is entirely possible that my version is so old that it is still a beta-version. If newer versions of SAI does have line/curve tools, that's great, and means it is a less limited program than it used to be! In that case, I'm was wrong on this point, and fully acknowledge that. Congrats, you won this point!

2.) My point has never been that it isn't possible to use SAI efficiently, or that it isn't possible to draw great things in it. My point has, throughout this discussion, been that Manga Studio is more specifically geared towards making comics, and is therefore easier to use to make comics.

3.) Manga Studio is not a "paint-by-numbers" program. There is no paint-by-numbers program, unless you are literally cutting and pasting pieces of other people's artwork. What Manga Studio DOES have is a set of tools that make comics-creation an easier process. It has panelling-tools that make creating and adjusting the size and shape of panels easier. It has tools that make the creation of speechbubbles easier. It has a native text-tool. And so on. But here's the kicker - you don't have to use them if you won't want to. As I said, I rarely use the perspective tool. You can draw comics in Manga Studio without ever touching any of those tools - but if you want to, they're there! THAT is why I think Manga Studio has advantages over SAI when it comes to making comics.

There. I'm done.

joannekwan 2015-07-15 07:36:05 UTC #47

I'll just put in my two cents.
I've seen people do amazing things in SAI, I've seen people do amazing things in Photoshop, I've seen amazing things come from all sorts of programs. It's all just a matter of what you're comfortable using and practicing using that program. That's why free 30 day trials are great! Try out all the programs if you want!
For me, I started with the Adobe creative suite in high school, it's what I'm used to. I never even heard about SAI until college when my friend was using it (she's great by the way). But I'm an old fart and am stuck in my ways so I'll be using Photoshop until something forces me to try another program, since I also enjoy the photo-editing capabilities it has and I like photography. I just hate how Adobe is doing a subscription based thing now. What the hell is wrong with purchasing a program once and having it forever, goddammit?

Anyway, bottom line is: no program is perfect, but they're all pretty good or else people wouldn't be using them. Find what works for you and roll with it!

GlanceReviver 2015-07-15 09:31:04 UTC #48

I've tried to switch to Manga Studio a few times, and I have a couple problems with it due to the lower capacity of my computer, and the size of my screen. I work on a toshiba tablet PC with wacom integration, so it draws very nice but the screen is only 13."

SAI is very nice because it is easy to use without accessing the keyboard (which my convertible tablet PC doesn't do in tablet mode except by virtual keyboard). Stuff like zoom and rotate it a one-touch click instead of having to hit plus or minus and then zoom in or out. I can work with just one window column open for the most part.

Problem that occurs in Manga Studio is that there are multiple toolbars and windows for everything, and it creates new layer sets automatically for just about everything it does. Just having panels and stuff cut properly and trying to use the perspective grid, I had like 30+ layers already and I'm navigating through this tiny little window, it's really frustrating.

And seems like with Manga Studio, drawing never feels quite as precise or smooth as with SAI, although that might be my settings or limitations of my tablet software, IDK.

Anyway, due to those issues I still only use Manga Studio for the tools only it has, like screentone. If I had a 21" or larger cintiq or something that might be different.

@joannekwan I found the adobe subscriptions weird at first too, but in operation they are a lot cheaper since I can pay a small fee each month instead of $600 up front and then needing to paying for upgrades whenever new ones come out anyway.

ghostnxs 2015-07-15 10:16:43 UTC #49

Opps my comment wasnt directed towards you i was quoting you.

Zanreo 2015-07-15 12:48:24 UTC #50

The line tool does exist but it's only on "linework" layers

It might not have a "line tool" on regular layers but you can draw lines by holding down Shift and clicking in the direction you want the line to go

Luie 2015-07-26 00:32:05 UTC #51

I've been using Sai for a while. I ended up buying it and giving my young artist sister a copy of my software license so she could use it as well ( I'm fantastically cheapo, but she loved it.). For comics, the only drawback I found is that it doesn't have all the nifty effects that other programs have and it doesn't have kewl circle shapes. It also doesn't have text, but I've had no problem adding text using Paint.net, which is another free program. Adding a layer over my comic page and adding in text works out just fine. When adding "art-text" (the kind of text, mainly sound effects, that is integrated into the page, like behind a character or in an odd shape) can be added by copying text from Paint.net and adding it to a new layer above your comic in Sai, then using Sai's tools to shape the text whatever way you like. I use Paint.net to get the fonts and text tools, then simply add the text to a layer in Sai and go from there. But adding text can be as simple as adding them over your page in Paint.net.

So yeah, Sai has a few drawbacks, but I love using it and it's been easy to find loopholes around the things it can't do.