Threading the needle (Sorry)

JoshRaed 2024-07-05 15:51:10 UTC #8

I don't mean to be defensive but has this happened at any point since February? I don't think it has. I could be wrong though.

JoshRaed 2024-07-05 16:18:38 UTC #9

I didn't realize this was a character specific thing. Like I didn't mean it like "How do I get Mr. Nobody the teenage homeless transmasc goofball army deserter with CPTSD to say a funny line" I meant like, how do writers have situations where something is said that both makes sense narratively and is surprising and therefore funny.

I mean i'm like looking at a blank space in the script unable to identify anything that would be like a funny thing to say in this situation, and works with the situation. Like anything, regardless of who is saying it and why, in a moment where a joke should really go here, because it's a lighthearted situation involving the jokester character who is going to make a joke here. I think I might be doing better than I thought, but people still universally don't like Nobody as a character for his humor, so I clearly still struggle with that.

Jwebtoons 2024-07-05 17:21:48 UTC #10

Hello friend.

Quite a few of the responses I've seen for you are pretty rude. I've read through them and it seems uncalled for. I've had many experiences where I've asked questions, but was just meant with hostility. I'm sorry this has happened to you too. I have many questions I never received answers too, but saying something like people are tired of your bullshit is just plain rude.

There are nicer ways to say things in general. Like "Some people have responded to your questions to the best of they're ability. They don't have any other information to provide".

Or "They've given answers, but the questions seemed to be phrased similarly, so it's like an endless loop of the same responses".

Addressing some other responses. Everyone's mind works differently, so things will be worded differently and interpreted differently. You may have intended a different meaning, but what was interpreted different. Same has happened to me. It's okay it happens.

If I ask a question and no one responds, I would also wonder if I said something strange. You are not "demanding" people stop what they're doing and answer you. You are wondering if you offended someone, said something strange, was it a weird question...Etc.

It is a learning experience and I think it's a great idea you asked. I'm also curious about that myself. The questions seem okay to me from what I've seen.

JoshRaed 2024-07-05 17:42:03 UTC #11

I don't disagree, but it's not like this came from nowhere in my case. I've actually been pretty annoying up to this point.

Not really, I don't think I offended people, but I do just want to know why these posts specifically are being ignored and how I'd make these posts something people would want to reply to, and If I can't, what to do as an alternative.

Jwebtoons 2024-07-05 17:44:56 UTC #12

My responses to your questions.

Almost everything is subjective. Someone will say something was done poorly, but others will call it a work of art. That is the first thing I would like for you to consider.

People have most likely not noticed because they needed to focus more on personal lives (work, family, etc) or something was lost in translation with your question, so negative interpretations were made.
The key to subverting expectations is to know the trope/stereotype and do something different.

Ex. Before a big battle one of the characters talks about wanting to propose, see family afterwards or fulfill a regret. The tropes say that is a death flag and everyone would expect them to die. If everyone else who didn't have death flags died instead then you subverted expectations or if this character actually lived to fulfill what they stated.

Balancing tone and tone switches is all about easing into it.
Ex. You're character has a nightmare about abuser, but keeps it to themselves. Friends notice something is off about their usual behavior, so they try talking to them. Character says their fine and tries to keep usual happy personality on display. Another person shows up for your barb shooting scene.

Friends think "Guess that person is okay if they can act like this". Barb shooting continues down a path, but character passes by a store where abuser is. They quickly hide. The person they are playing with doesn't see where they went and runs off looking for them.

Abuser walks by hiding place. Character covers their mouth to hide panicky breathing. Abuser lingers for a moment before continuing on. Character comes out of hiding place and Barb shooter friend finds them. Notices they are shaken up, maybe looks pale.

They question if they are ok. They don't go into a fit of rage or anything, instead they say they need some time alone. They are trying to calm themselves.

End Scene

If the the trauma is supposed to be more rage filled have small doses of it triggered by related things. Like if the abuser is a parent. Friends are talking about they're parents and great memories with them. Your character seems annoyed and says they want to talk about something else. More scenes happen before full blown rage or sad emotional breakdown.

Take the usual day to day and change behaviors, reactions, but in small doses to the build up.

Jwebtoons 2024-07-05 17:46:36 UTC #13

No, you are not annoying. No one should receive harsh words for asking a question. That is how people learn. There are no dumb questions.

You just want to solve a problem instead of just ignoring it.

VibrantFox 2024-07-05 18:52:42 UTC #14

oof i hope i didn't phrase things too poorly but i think if anything it's boils down to timing (whose online to see a post) and chance (whether the people who see it' do or don't decide to give a response). like i've posted threads here and other places and sometimes you get replies or manage to have a proper discussion and other times it's kind of spirals into...something else

i know that folks have a harder time giving you grace given you're full time here on the forums and not just recent activity but i want to believe that folks can be given second chances especially since you do seem eager to try to take in what advice is given it's just weeding out whats actually useful and whats just overly harsh and unnecessary criticism

but onto the second half

this ones hard to pinpoint since i personally draw from a lot of different things including video games, movies, television, comics and so on and my brain kinda clings to whatever i've digested recently (if that wording makes sense) so thinking of anything right this moment is a little difficult but if anything comes to mind i'll def come back to this

if anything i'm used to it following the metrics of like a jar filling so if the character is already stressed from seeing a thing thats reminded them of past suffering or are just generally overwhelmed then you're going to see progressive changes in their demeanor whether it's withdrawing or more adamantly trying to change a topic of conversation from something that would make them feel worse or just outright doging the subject if it's brought up. as for fallout i think i go for either spilling out (crying, trembling, being uneasy without noticing) or blowing up. sometimes it's a verbal thing sometimes it's in action but it depends on how your character expresses themself

plus not every response is ooc and if anything it can add to the layers of a character when they do something unexpected like the quiet character whose been holding onto their emotions finally lashing out to the surprise of their peers; so even though to those around them or even some readers it seems "out of character" it's really just been mounting emotions reaching their boiling point and the same can happen in reverse with the usually outgoing or chatty character suddenly becoming quiet and shut off or the "jokester" character becoming very serious and dry cut. it's one of those benefits to human emotions having such nuance because when you take in all factors you can see how things play together to create a certain result

its still a trail and error kind of thing so you'll obviously have to work out what you feel works best for your own characters but kind of studying out how people react to things and how people depict it in media as a point of reference will help

NickRowler 2024-07-05 20:38:15 UTC #15

Nothing about your description would make them impossible to be funny. So I don't understand why you are needling people here for help.

Teenage and transmasc are just visual description of the character. Homeless and army deserter are just social class. What's left...people with PTSD can struggle with managing their emotions but I have met veterans with PTSD which just seem like average joes and can still be funny. PTSD is an invisible disability and not always obvious during casual conversations. Also saying your character is a goofball, you are telling me they are supposed to be funny, so what's the issue?

hamzeh-a 2024-07-05 20:46:00 UTC #16

use punctuation, dotting, and spacing.

SleepingPoppy 2024-07-05 21:16:07 UTC #17

Well, if they’re not advice threads, what are they? It’s hard to answer without that info. But generally speaking, yeah, advice threads and soecegic questions tend to get a lot more response than some other types. Like, if you’re asking for a review/feedback, that can be a lot of work, and so fewer people are willing to invest. Often times the hardest part is finding the first person to read and review, but once forum people see that one person respond, a few more are more willing to join in. Why? I don’t know. How do you get that first person? It’s just kinda luck.
I wouldn’t know how to answer this without context. If there is a formula one can learn to this kind of thing, I simply don’t know it.
Probably practice, mostly. This kind of thing can be subjective, too. Like I tend to enjoy/not mind tonal whiplash in things. But it bothers other people. Just keep the internal logic of the story intact?
Sorry, I don’t know. As a neurodivergent person, you often have to work really hard and try lots of different things to find what works. I find I have to constantly find new ways to motivate and structure myself, because a truck that worked in the past becomes less effective as I change. Mindset, practice, will, research, google. You just never stop trying, my friend.

JoshRaed 2024-07-05 21:20:33 UTC #18

I didn't mean to imply these things would make it harder to give this character jokes because of his situation. I just meant I didn't mean it as like "This exact singular situation is the one where I want to work in the comedy" because I'm talking about comedy in general.

Like I don't know how to make a genuinely funny line happen in most of the narrative events going on here, no matter which characters are on screen. That's what I'm asking. Like... here's a scene.

—
Cut to them eating it.
Nobody (mouth full): This is so good.
Orion is kind of nervous about it but also kind of likes the attention.
—
Nobody: You really have a gift.
Orion: It's nothing, really.
This conversation is making him uncomfortable.
Nobody: (Insert funny line here)

Like what would go in that blank that's even a little bit funny? This is just one of maybe hundreds of moments where I just can't make it work, and but I don't want this character to not make a joke there. This is basically every situation. The only way I can imagine a properly funny joke is by reading it somewhere else.

I have written funny things before. I once knocked myself dead reading an old tumblr post where I said I had the media literussy, and that phrase still makes me laugh a bit, but that only works in a satirical tumblr post, you can't have a fictional character say shit like that.

Old jokes I wrote for Nobody were stuff like him mentioning cancer and holding up a Moe anime girl he pulled out of hammerspace, or ordering a sundae with beans, bacon, and hot sauce, then leaving without eating it, or saying "waste is based" after someone said the word waste. Like just nonsense for no reason.

JoshRaed 2024-07-05 21:21:54 UTC #19

Why are you bringing that up right now?

SleepingPoppy 2024-07-05 21:26:47 UTC #20

I feel like there are probably blogs and books on how to write jokes/be funny. Sounds like that’s what you need. It’s too vast and complex a topic to get a straight forward answer in a thread imo.

NickRowler 2024-07-05 21:37:52 UTC #21

You have a setup with no punchline. Your joke should be about Nobody (hate the name but whatever) overreacting. Their response should be making the gift into a big deal. Maybe hyping it up too much or going full self-deprecating. "I don't have any amazing gifts but I can..." then insert something silly or mundane. Orion then follows up with a reaction to said statement.

JoshRaed 2024-07-05 21:40:25 UTC #22

(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)

vapidink 2024-07-05 21:59:19 UTC #23

Apart from what everyone else said, it's just been pretty slow around here lately. Maybe it's because it's summer, so people are out doing stuff and not online as much.
Personally, I don't worry about this kind of thing. I just write characters while keeping in mind what their personality and motivations are like--that's what influences how they deal with any situation. Using technical aspects to drive the story forward isn't something that works for me. It's story/characters first and everything else like tropes, foreshadowing, etc. is determined by the story I'm trying to tell and the characters in it.
So, for humor, it really depends on what the tone of your story is and finding the sort of humor that fits. Also, humor usually serves a purpose. A joke might be used to cut the tension, develop a character, or drop a detail that could be relevant later. Keeping in mind the sort of humor that fits the character and how they would respond in a situation helps makes jokes form more naturally. Also, maybe study the things that inspire you, and things that have the sort of humor you want to write and see why it works.
I wouldn't know about this specifically, but in the times where I've had a rough time writing, it helps to have a set time where I sit down and try to write. Sometimes I wrote a single line, other times it was 3k words, but the point is that progress was made. Habits don't always form effortlessly, sometimes we have to make a conscious effort to maintain them. But also, don't be too hard on yourself if you're not writing thousands of words a day, that's perfectly fine. Everyone works at their own pace.

JoshRaed 2024-07-06 00:27:53 UTC #24

Okay I've decided I'm not even going to look at this forum again until I have five finished comic pages to show. That's when I come back next, not a second before. Bye now, again.

aqua03 2024-07-06 00:32:06 UTC #25

Don't forget sliding into peoples' dms to bug them even after they've been told they don't want to talk anymore as well....

VibrantFox 2024-07-06 00:38:40 UTC #26

im gonna be real: i think the folks who are this frustrated or dont want to be bothered simply mute the threads as they come up and dont engage rather than adding to the negative experience

like has op engaged in unhealthy behavior on the forums. yes. but it's been addressed and if it persists it's something to bring to mods not start infighting on the forums or dogpile because then it's wasted energy both ways

if you can curate your spaces or have the capacity to decide what you will or wont engage with then do so

RedLenai 2024-07-06 02:31:24 UTC #27

I'm gonna be real too.

The moment you are online and share something, you are exposing yourself to other people's responses. If you can't handle other responses then don't expose yourself. You either grow a spine or everything will be rude words and you won't achieve anything if in top of a people pleaser you are literally doing nothing and disregarding anyone and everything unless its about you, you and you.
Just like there is no block button here, there is no impediment whatsoever for some to vent or expresss their frustration juts like others express admiration or sugarcoated words

Josh has received polite responses in the past from several people, people who had lots of patience and answered to the endless questions he had made both through making Topics on the Forum and through people's DMs and even got extremely entitled when some of us didn't answer to him via DM, so this post clearly looks like that very same entitlement from before and many rather shut that down than to continue enabling what clearly is a very wrong hyperfixation of his that is borderline clinically online addiction.

A lot of people has tried to help him, gave advice, provided resources and links both pink filtered and harsh, but its like he has no satisfaction whatsoever to anything we and others have said, we already tried to be teachers, therapists, colleages, explain it to him as if he was a toddler with graphics and drawings, and more but clearly, one thing is a person asking for a hand and a whole different thing someone who grabs everyone's arms and throws them into the water.

Something important about curating our own experiences I want to point out:
I started ignoring Josh as much as I could, he is a lost cause for me and no one here is qualified to give him the advise he desires due to how unsatisfied he is and there doesn't seem to be any kind of improvement or positive results from all the advice and time several had gave him for free, to me he is just ungrateful and an attention seeker, so I simply began to even stay less and less here, but guess that's not enough.
Some time ago, a notification popped up on my Ko-Fi, it was Josh ordering a commisssion, which is weird considering the bad history we have through exchanges here on the Forum, I would't go out of my way to announce myself to someone who clearly doesn't like me, I already dealt with him sending DMs demanding answers and snarling at me when I called out some of his bluffs regarding practicing and at least trying some of people's advice, which he clearly didn't do at all back then and now I don't care if he does apply said advice or if he really does practice every single day as he claimed.
I did the commission to remain professional but I suspected that it was just him testing the waters and probably seeking for further exchanges as I purposefully began to ignore him and engage less in the forum, and I confirmed this when some time later he popped on my Tumblr trying to offer me money because of some weird rule he put on himself about not visiting the forum and failing, I did not respond to him, deleted the message and blocked him from my Ko-Fi and Tumblr as I considered this extremely direspectful and out of place, besides dense and repetitive.

So I understand if you and @Jwebtoons try to be empathetic or don't know much about Josh's behavior, but personally I ran out of patience, I already lashed out at him from time to time, now I try to ignore him even if he did cross the line already with me. And in some places I cannot rely on a mod, I do have blocking tools and all, which yes I have applied, but this leaves me thinking if he did or is doing these things to others as well, and just because they have one last ounce of empathy for him, is that they don't call him out on that, but do call him out on what he is already known for doing and keeps going at it.

Artists, writers, adhd havers, autistic people and even mods have already tried with him, helping him in his art, his writing, his other off-topic questions, even about his own motivations on life and whatever, several gave up and now try to ignore him, so he shouldn't be surprised now that people won't bother giving him feedback or answer to his Topics, because they don't want to be dragged anymore to him digging and demanding attention, going into rabbit holes or trying to drain any ounce of exchange with them, and if its feedback he doesn't like, he'll just make another Topic making indirects while asking how to get his story to not be seen as said specific feedback or opinion which also makes him look butthurt.