What do you think is more important marketing/advertising your artwork or the artwork itself?

[BloodOgre]

This isn’t a topic for hobbyists, but professionals and aspiring professionals. I’m eager to hear opinions.

[Jenny-Toons]

It's gonna be a little bit of both, though I will lean more towards the art itself.

Having a physical product to show people builds trust. It means that you're able to deliver on your promises and know what you're doing. Case in point -- kickstarters. A lot of kickstarters that go under isn't entirely because of a lack of marketing. Rather, they didn't deliver the physical product of what they were selling. They were busy marketing and hyping the product up without really focusing on the logistics. By the time the kickstarter deadlines are popping up:

A) Little to no research as been done to make something.
B) Deadlines had to be pushed back.
C) Nothing is finished.

It's good to have both at an even balance, but at the end of the day, if you don't have something to actually give people, sooner or later, they just leave. You can only go so long on promises and hype alone. You have to prove that you can get shit done.

[BloodOgre]

I’m speaking in terms of you having a product to begin with. Kickstarter is just a new way of making snake oil for a lot of people.

[Cavechan]

I feel like it's hard to say which one is better. I feel like good marketing will get people to look at the comic but having good artwork and story will get people to stay. So I supposed good artwork would be better for the long term.

Hm but people would interact and share more if the marketing is good... hmmm...

[BloodOgre]

Yes and here is my opinion on the subject. Marketing is king. I don’t care how good your artwork gets or your story— marketing beats out skill. My thoughts here are as follows guys and gals:

With freelance art and even sometimes industry artwork (which is usually marketed because corporations have whole departments in place for it) you need to learn and KNOW how to sell your work.

Why do you think Vincent Van Gogh and Modigliani and the other masses of artists couldn’t get off the ground until their inevitable death? Because they couldnt be bothered to learn how to properly advertise and sell their work. It is by the grace of god that someone found their work years, decades and centuries later and had the means to market it. It’s the same here, independent comic making is a rough business. If you can’t sell and put your work in front of a bunch of people you’re doing a lot of hard work— and yes regardless of passion doing it for nothing at a professional level. Artists are business owners once they are on their own. Art is a product but, so many people act as if it isn’t because it’s a creative market. This is all so silly in my opinion, and while we’re on the topic of my opinion I would say it should be a 70-30 percent split in favor of marketing. We as artists need to prioritize this sooner rather than later. Learning some field of advertising (I recommend copywriting and deep focus into social media) will only help you sustain your passion if you choose to live off of it.

[beta1042]

I'm inclined to agree from a professional/fame stand point knowing how to market yourself is more valuable, but if your content sucks, you may not enjoy the type of fame you get.

[BloodOgre]

Well, if it’s your first few times getting a product out in the masses I’d expect hitches. But the beauty of art is that it’s subjective. For instance, everyone hears about Rob Liefield’s anatomy blunders and how bad he is. But for every one person downing his art work he has 2-4+ fans to back his artwork regardless as something amazing. And if at first you don’t succeed you try again anyhow. First comic or product involving art flops and has inexperience written all over it? Well you can probably try again because you’ve marketed enough to make a fan base to pay you to try again. Big and small gaming companies for instance don’t stop making games because they flopped here and there, and especially not if they have marketed well enough.

Not only that your first few comics are rarely good generally. But that goes for anything.

[beta1042]

I get that, but I do think you're under estimating the type of impact that can have on some people's self esteem and motivation. If you're new you also probably haven't developed very thick skin, and some people need to ease into that. I'm just saying I don't see this debate as having a "one size fits all" answer.

[BloodOgre]

I definitely think it’s a one size fits all answer. Products hardly get anywhere without some form of marketing. Otherwise you must rely on the luck of getting picked up by someone with means to market your stuff for you, and even then that is precluded by you posting your artwork enough to be noticed by people. You can see this with how Tapas works now.

This has nothing to do with thin or thick skin. Art on professional levels must be marketed to make due.

Selling is natural just like drawing, but obviously they need to be worked at. Learning to market as an artist should be a priority right next to the work itself.

[AVXP]

This isn’t a topic for hobbyists, but professionals and aspiring professionals. I’m eager to hear opinions.

Do you want an echo chamber or to hear other people's opinions?
There is no- one without the other.
I don't even think it's about hobbyist versus professional.

It's personal satisfaction versus business-minded goals.

Learning to market as an artist should be a priority right next to the work itself.

Horrible advice. Horrible.
That is an outsider's hobbyist advice - at best.

This site is full of hobbyists and enthusiasts and many, many with professional level work ethics and creative output.
I doubt you will find many with true business-minded thinking...
....at least not many willing to sit here and debate their working business practices.

The steps and (best) advice for selling stuff is no secret.
It's not even complicated. It just runs contrary to most artistic passions and interests.

It's a circle. If you KNOW then you are already doing it and what interest do you have in helping anyone else out- at the expense of forum arguments? And if you don't know or don't agree with a business-mindset, why should anyone care?

This reads like a-pointing-finger-at-hobby-artists who don't focus on selling stuffs (properly).
And if you don't want them to read this thread and learn and share and grow and challenge you - then what's the point?

[BloodOgre]

One. I say hobbyist and professional as meaning you either do or don’t want to make a full time income off of art. Hobbyists in this instance don’t really care for it but just drawing for themselves which is completely fine.

Echo chamber? I asked opinions and shared mine that’s all.

As far as my advice being an outsiders advice? Not really been working free lance for 5 years now and I work with two galleries. So I have something to this if you’d want to expand further without the extremely disrespectful and disruptive attitude. If you need proof of me working in the industry I’ll be happy to provide.

That’s my point. Selling in art should NOT run contrary just because it’s a creative field. It makes no sense.

Hobby artists don’t generally sell, maybe here and there for some quick change but full time or even part time? No not really that’s why it’s called a hobby and not a job. Hence the word professional. They can read and reply to this but it’s not directed at them. I’m sorry.

There’s also no reason why I shouldn’t be able to ask about the business side of art either on this site. It’s Tapas you know? An online comic publisher, and a distributor and therefore a site focused on the marketing of art specifically webcomics.

[AVXP]

As far as my advice being an outsiders advice?

No, I meant the advice for for someone who was going to be an outsider because they intend to do it all by themselves. Not you.

That’s my point. Selling in art should NOT run contrary just because it’s a creative field. It makes no sense.

Unless you consider what an artists is and basically, you are asking them to add a new layer of interest, pursuit and execution to their make up. Saying - learn, and add this OTHER SKILL and wait, develop that at-the-same-time you learn your craft.

It’s Tapas you know? An online comic publisher, I.e a distributor and therefore a site focused on the marketing of art specifically webcomics.

Except you're asking the content providers, not the content sellers.
And you said professionals, now if you said

To those making a living off TAPAS, here's a question....
Do you think.....

Then yeah.
And if all they do is MAKE the comics and TAPAS does all the marketing and promotions....
then how could THEY even respond?

You'd have to get the editorial/solicitation team (or whatever they are called)- that picks up a title to answer.
So the short answer is, you'd be better off learning how to market and promote your title to Tapas or some other publisher and not the general public for self-generated leads and sales.

That was hyperbolic. Self-generated interest is always a positive.
Hobby-level or pro,

[Kura]

Because art theft and re-posting is a thing artwork alone isn't enough. You want to at least market enough to be able to attach the art (and hopefully your style) to your name. (this apply even if you are not trying to make money off of your art)

[BloodOgre]

Oh it’s good advice in my opinion. By god I wish someone told me when I started to learn how to market my work beyond just the art. I had to learn from my gallerist. But we can differ on that, I’m fine with that.

Yes. Artists on a professional level make a product(art) and sell that product. Artists are salesmen. There should be no disconnect here. Artists show up to galleries to sell their art, artists post their art to social media to sell it as well, the list goes on. Artistry is a passionate and creative driven field dont get me wrong but at the end of the day as a professional artist you market and sell your art in some way shape or form. Telling artists to hone the skill of selling and marketing is not bad advice. Not by a long shot. As far as learning to hone your craft and learn to sell? How do you think many businesses or careers in the freelance category start? You HAVE to market yourself. No way around it. People don’t just knock on your door just because you make a product. I could make the best lemonade possible but if no one knows I make lemonade it’s not going anywhere.

That’s why I said professionals and aspiring professionals in the context of art. We can go into all the semantics and circus flips you’d like. But please just call a spade a spade here. And you can market yourself outside of tapas. Let’s be real a lot of people on here make peanuts on tapas. And for the ones that do make real money well, I’d like those opinions for certain. So whether you’d be better off, ehhh... let’s hear some more opinions.

Yes self generated interest is positive. I don’t understand why you’re jumping down my throat if you’re ending what you said with what my opinion is about. It’s just more beneficial if you actually want a job in the art sector.

Honestly I think it’s best that we leave it here. You’re so up in arms and I’m just in no mood to deal with it. I don’t know why you are, but have a good rest of your night or day.

[BloodOgre]

For sure I definitely agree with that. Art theft always finds a way

[AVXP]

Artists are salesmen.
No. Artists are artists and salesmen are salesmen.

I had to learn from my gallerist.
That would have been my advice to you. Get someone that already knows how to do it and better yet, does it well and have THEM do it for you- until you (choose to) pick it up over time. That's what I do/did for most things.
I'd ask you then if your business picked up once you put a professional on the job? Probably did.
Once you make professional (level) work, find someone that knows what to do with it.
Until then, what you are doing is NOT marketing or promoting, it is SHARING your work on social media and looking for exposure..
That's not semantics.

I could make the best lemonade possible but if no one knows I make lemonade it’s not going anywhere.
I'd rather team up with the person who already owns a lemonade stand and is happy selling lemonade. That way, I get to do what I want, which is to MAKE LEMONADE, not sit on the side of the road, at a stand.

You’re so up in arms and I’m just in no mood to deal with it.

I said: "If you KNOW then you are already doing it and what interest do you have in helping anyone else out- at the expense of forum arguments?"

I knew we would end up here so I tried to warn us. lol

[BloodOgre]

With all due respect my dude you don’t even work in the field.

And FYI I’m a freelance copywriter as well, SO I do already market my own stuff. The only person who came in here guns blazing was you and honestly there was no need for it. You don’t like the topic? Don’t post, or simply express your opinions without being so rude. Thank you. Have a goodnight.

[AVXP]

Did hiring a professional push you forward?
Was that a good move?
Would it have better to split your dedication in art to -- art and sales?
Or get your art to a professional level first and then worry about selling it?

Does that difference in approach make THAT much of a difference?
There are the interesting questions.

With all due respect my dude you don’t even work in the field.

What field? Selling art in galleries?

Your thread is about artists I am one.
You're asking about marketing and advertising.
I hired outside people and companies to handle that.

Your post is about selling stuff -
I sold some stuff.
you're asking on a Webcomics-selling website.
I assume you meant comics, not fine art.

I don't see rudeness in my tone.
And I don't see angry posts either or an attack on your person.

But I do admit you are acting like a true artist and taking this very personally.
That's what I enjoy about artists- their passion.

That's also why it's not really worth getting into it over these things.
Sorry if I offended you. That was not my attention.
Have a good night.

[BloodOgre]

Dude tbh we could have had a good discussion about the ins and outs of marketing art but you wanted to come at me wrong from the jump. I’m sorry but I’m just in a foul mood now. None of this had to happen and you have good points that we could actually discuss but like I don’t get it dude. What’s your problem? What did I say that was so messed up in your eyes? Just because I used the words hobbyist and professional? It’s silly.

Your whole first post is rude as hell my dude. It’s like you came in here and got pissed this was a topic.

[AVXP]

Well maybe you're right and I stepped in wrong. That's quite possible.
I had to re-read what I posted.
Ahh
I did have an early post that was in disagreement.
That must have been it.
My apologies again.

Well, I dunno. I've said my piece on this.
I don't think I have anything else to add.

---

except. more stuffs...
For years, people have been advising me to outsource all the things that I am not good at or interested in doing.
For me, it was ego. How can I be good at [insert artistic endeavor] and NOT good at marketing/promoting/sales etc?

Once I admitted to myself that I am not the best at everything, I loosened up. lol
I used to write my own publicity and first-contact letters and marketing stuff...
Terrible results.
And then I hired a publicist and learned how badly I was doing it. Another lol.
Eventually, I owned a publication and started getting A TON of those same horrible letters.
It was a lesson from the other side.

Marketing and promotions should be left to professionals.
Sharing and exposure stunts should be left to the artist.

That's my 10 cents on it.