What do you think of manga?

[legendriders96]

Hello, peeps of Tapastic forum ~~ Alex and Kass here. o3o We gathered you here today to ask a very important question.

What do people actually think of manga?

I've browsed some threads and I didn't run into any discussions like this (Maybe I missed it?), so figured I'd share what we noticed as mangaka.

It seems like there's a lot of people with prejudice against anime/manga. I must admit it myself, with really good reason in almost all cases, it tends to have huge flaws which get irritating. However, legit as it may be, it might make an actually well done manga have to prove itself far more than a western looking comic would, because a western audience might not give it a chance. This seems to double for eastern looking comics done by western people (still with good reason).

Our experience is decent feedback on the art, but a few cases when a reader is turned away by the style or reading right to left. Also, so far, we got more attention on coloured pages than black and white (even though black and white is the "traditional" manga look).

Any thoughts on it, agree, disagree? Or advice? If you're a mangaka as well, how do you feel about reception you got?

[AnnaLandin]

I read tons of manga, and I love it. But, like with all "styles" (it's hard to define the style that is "manga", since that label would have to include both Sailor Moon and Blade of the Immortal), there are a lot of bad comics. Just as there are a lot of bad American comics, and a lot of bad Franco-Belgian comics.

The issue, I think, that a lot of people have with manga is that for a lot of us in the West, we were introduced to it during the manga-boom, when Tokyopop just published anything that they could get their hands on as long as it was manga. There was a LOT of bad manga translated and published in the West. Not all of it was Blade of the Immortal, is what I'm saying. And if your first impression of manga is of terribly drawn, badly plotted crap, well, it's going to take some effort to get over that impression - and a lot of people don't want to make the effort.

I'm kind of in the same spot with American superhero comics. They've never really been my cup of tea, art-wise, and I've found it really hard to get into the stories themselves, so I have to make an effort to get over that prejudice, and I can't always be bothered. So if someone shows me a comic that looks and feels like a traditional American superhero-comic, I'm probably not going to jump on the chance to read it.

It happens, and not everyone can like all things - the same way you as creators can't please everybody.

As for black and white vs. colour... Colour is going to get more attention, yeah. I adore black and white comics when they're done well - they can be super-powerful! - but a lot of people prefer colour, and it is more attention-grabbing in general. The established black and white look of manga is due at least in part to the fact that b&w comics are faster to produce and cheaper to print - and webcomics usually don't have the same production-speed as manga, and you don't have to worry about how pricey it is to print (unless, of course, to plan to print), so a lot of readers "expect" colour. I'm putting "expect" in quotation-marks because it's not like people go around thinking "Oh, I'll only read colour-comics!". It's more like there are so MANY full colour webcomics that it's become the norm.

[joannekwan]

Manga was the only form of comic I read for years.
I was usually turned off by western comics because the ones I had seen always had very full text bubbles and seemed like a chore to read.

Nowadays I don't read as much manga because I have become harder to impress. And I get tired with the way of dialogue writing in a lot of manga (then again it could also be the translator's responsibility). It's hard to describe the feel of it... but for example I hate the lines "You're the worst!" and "Eehhhh?" just uuuuuuuggggghhhhhh. I'm tired of that.

Then again, it's not like I read a lot of western comics now either, save for the webcomics on Tap.

[legendriders96]

True enough on the style, I have to agree since ours is some strange hybrid, but probably still falls under manga section cause of the right to left arrangement, so we feel we belong there. XD

Anyway, that's exactly my point why it's legit to be reserved towards it, hell, I rarely read manga myself because of that. But that's what I'm wondering, are peeps objective towards western too. Cause superhero comics are pretty irritating as well, in their own way. I've noticed a lot that peeps prefer western looking illustrations over eastern ones (not through us, other artists), but that might be cause we live on dA. 8'D

Fair enough, you can never please everyone. Usually not even a very wide audience.

Oh of course, everything about manga is to lower the cost, it's printed with black, on cheap paper, with minimal use of screentones, which, even in digital time, built a "tradition" for a manga. I don't approve of the last one, I like well done black and white shading. (We went for that, screentones aren't that difficult to use, but they seem kinda unnatural and off-putting)

In any case, I agree with you on all and you make great points. XD

[legendriders96]

It's true, first thing I was taught about when drawing manga is to reduce the text maximally. XD

That's true too, bad translations really know how to kill the mood. And those precut lines. <_<; Especially in "Senpai, no... O//n//O" area. 8'D

[lizm]

The anime/manga style (weird to define it--it varies, just like Western styles vary) suffers just as much from prejudice and clichés as pretty much every type of art style or medium does. Most people are probably very neutral about this, as in they either like the style or don't and simply ignore it, but as usual, the people taking it to the extreme are the ones creating a problem in the first place. And let's be honest, the people trashing every single thing labeled "manga" are just as bad as the people glorifying anything Japanese and blindly defending everything ever created there.

The extreme "anti-manga" side seems to just hate it because it's gotten very popular. Note that I'm not talking about people who say "it's not my cup of tea so I don't read it," (that's totally fine!) but the ones who repeatedly bash it and refuse to accept that manga isn't just about sparkly magical girls with gigantic eyes or cliché-ridden BL and go on and on about how Western comics are always better. I've never understood the "I dislike something, better go trash it and spoil everyone's fun!" mindset anyway. Discussing flaws and disliking things is fine--just be mature about it and treat other people's works with the same respect you'd like to receive for yours/the things you enjoy.

As for the extreme "pro-manga" side... Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking manga, but--and I say that as someone who loves almost every second spent in Japan--acting like anything Japanese is automatically a gift sent from heaven and can in no way have flaws is the worst kind of naive. Accept that manga has flaws. Accept that some people won't like it. Accept that Western comics aren't inferior to your precious manga, they cover just as many genres and styles. Accept that Japan is not a magical country where everything is perfect, and please actually go there before you talk about how you're going to be a famous 'real' mangaka there.

tl;dr Like with many things, I don't think this would be a problem in any way whatsoever if everyone was mature about it. (I get the feeling that this community is very open-minded and mature in general, but I definitely haven't been here long enough to know how manga is "treated" here--but boy, have I seen some style wars on other websites...)

My style is definitely 100% anime, but my comic is read from left to right and in full color--I don't know if that makes it more accessible to people who usually don't read manga-style works, it's just a personal preference. It's probably too early for me to talk about reception in regards to the style, I just assume my readers are mostly people who like the style in general.

[Stellamari]

Just like what @AnnaLandin mentioned: There are good and bad manga just like in other form. Personally, I like manga and have been reading them since I was 7. Western comic on the other hand, I only started around 5 years ago and that's just a few DC stuff. As for manga, probably because I grew up reading it so I don't mind the reading style or black and white colouring. My biggest gripe about manga is probably some of the extremely exaggerated anatomical proportion like in some shoujo manga. There's a difference between it being an art style and just plain wrong and sadly, that's enough to put me off.

[zetina]

"Manga" is "comic from Japan".
"Manga-ka" is a word for "comic author" in Japanese.

I think that there is a distinct cultural difference between manga and other comics, hence justifying using the Japanese word for it. There are a ton of manga series and, as with anything like that, most of it is mediocre at best.
I don't like it when people essentially talk about it with Doraemon and Berserk in the same breath without even realizing they're doing this. It's not a "genre" or a "drawing style". I believe with certainty that anyone who even remotely likes reading comics can find at least one or two manga they'd like.

I have... Unkind feelings about people calling themselves "manga-ka" while speaking in English. Your comic looks just like a manga? No prob. Won't call it a manga though. It reads right-to left? Heavens, why!
I've been heavily influenced by the styles of the manga I've read over the years and I constantly wrestle with the stigma I've internalized. Generally, I don't get crap for it though. I believe that my drawings can still change in the future and for now I'll gleefully mix everything there is in me. My comic doesn't look like a manga, imo, but the influence is undeniable.

Animé is a joke/meme by this point. But it's usually the really sketchy stuff that gets brought up in that context so shrugs Gotta wade through the mud to get to the nice stuff. Unless you like mud. I know I do like a bit of mud.

[legendriders96]

Again, completely agreed on the style thing. XD

Ah yes, we encountered both groups, the haters and the Weeaboos (the second one much more, being an actual anime artists) and honestly one is just as bad as the other indeed.

I agree, it's sadly too widely spread, the "It's popular, so it must suck" mentality. No, it's not really a rule. Fine, I'm not too fond of ridiculously popular stuff either, but I'm not going to bash it until I give it a try. ~__~; Don't like Yugioh or SnK? Ok cool, it's really ok to dislike it, but please, please give me a reason more legit than "It's too popular", we probably won't change each other's minds, but hey, maybe we can have a calm, civilised convo about each other's interests and why do we think they're good. I'm trailing off a bit. X'D But no, manga is not all about sparkly eyed preteen girls getting naked and wrapped in ribbons or overly feminine guys in dresses. Just as not every western is about superheroes.

The Weeaboos... I've met so many. It's immediately fantastic cause it's anime. Even though it blows. And then they get angry when you disagree. <_<;; You can't like all manga, man, it's not natural.

Either way, it'd be awesome if everyone was being adult about their opinions. It's true, peeps here seem really cool. That's why I figured it'd be a good place to ask, cause even if someone disagrees with me, they won't be a bitch about it. >_> You must be talking about deviantArt. XDD

Of course, man, it's about preference. And I'm always up for weird merges. 8D They're more fun and give more space for originality.

[legendriders96]

I know, biggest issue there is trying to develop your own style without a minute of actually studying art. I don't mean going to classes or anything, not everyone has the money, but there's the internet for tutorials and tips. Which then ends up in creating distorted drawings. Probably not everyone agrees, but I'm really more up for knowing the basic anatomy. :T

[legendriders96]

Nah, man, I used the terms so peeps would know what I'm talking about better. Manga is actually Japanese for caricature. If you notice, I usually refer to our thing as "comic" and to myself as "comic artist". It was a manner of speaking in this thread. Sorry if that bothered you.

[zetina]

no, don't worry. sorry if it seemed like i was snarking at you haha
i meant in general. it comes up with the topic /o/

[YamamotoRyuunosuke]

Well, we have here two different conflicts, the terminology and the product. And of course, the combination of these two creates another issue.

First, the origins and the actual meaning of the term "Manga" differs quite widely from what westerners call manga. But who cares!? C'mon! If you what to call it manga, call it manga. If you want to call it Japanese style comic or whatever, just do it and relax.

Second, the actual product. Manga is more than just a drawing style, many people think that is the only difference. But panel layout, scene direction, themes and almost everything is different. And as everything in this world, there are good examples of product and bad ones. That is just inevitable.

Now about how society sees it. We have the haters that think all manga and anime is about is about gianormous eyes, crazy hair styles and tentacles porn or just kid cartoons. And on the other side, we have the weeabos that loves every singles anime just because it's anime and the one that never watches the popular stuff because he's too fantastic for that mainstream shit.

Finally, I want to say my personal opinion on this. I have my comic/manga, how you want to call it is up to you, I'll not get offended or anything, but I like to call it manga. Why? Well, I try to make look like an actual manga published in Japan, I even use Japanese sound effects. I hope to one day make it into the Japanese market so that's it (please, don't comment in this unless you have something good or helpful to say, I know how barely possible it is). And if you like something, watch/read it. Who cares if it's mainstream or nobody knows about it? After all it's you the one who's watching it and it's no one's fault you have shit taste (just joking).

[legendriders96]

No, no, don't worry. XD I get your point. We're not the types to fanatically separate the two, and when I can speak freely, I refer to anime/manga as cartoon/comic. However, after you've been around the fanbase long enough to see that meme about a hundred times with
"I love anime"
"Oh, you mean those cartoons?"
And the a pic of a girl shooting another girl in the head, you kinda get cautious about the terminology. <_<;

[legendriders96]

YEP, encountered both too many times, they both suck. It'd be really nice if we could all just get along. =3=; And agree to disagree if necessary.

Pff, I actually have family members that thought "anime" is Japanese for "porn". They wouldn't even believe me when I said they're wrong, it just stands for "animation".

..... 8'D I'm not gonna say anything mean, man, I actually wish you all the luck and I think it's a great goal. We have a right to left system too, AND sfx in Japanese. Although it's more an aesthetic thing for us, doubt we'll ever get near posting in Japan.

Also, please, we should all be proud of our shit taste. 8D

[DavidDaneman]

In my opinion, manga is for girls.

Men read mango.

[legendriders96]

Yea, but REAL men only read lemon.

[Menbung]

I must be somekind of weird creature then, coz I read Mangu, and.... I love it !

[scythe]

Meh. I could take it or leave it.

[Dingbat1991]

I was into anime/manga when i was younger (Ghost in the Shell and Rave Master mainly, the Pokemon manga I remember being really good too despite the anime making me gag.) but today I don't have much interest in it.