Well this is a headache. Was this just left open because we're not having a serious conversation? Are we not allowed to have serious conversations on what is deemed controversial in fiction? Did the OP even want a serious answer to the question? Did they make the thread to prove we're not allowed? Or because we are allowed? Or that we just can't take it seriously and it's not offensive? This thread gives me so many mixed messages it's the YA protagonist of threads.
Hi -- Mod and long-term user.
I've been a mod here for a year, but I've been a forum user since 2017. @joannekwan has been here since 2015. So that's around 4 - 7 years worth of experience on these particular forums. We have also been in several discord servers catered to Tapas/Webtoons/Webcomic creators (most of them unofficial -- the verified servers for Tapas and Webtoons are brand new).
Within that timeline, it's been obvious that when it comes to these forums and discord, trying to have controversial conversations of any kind have never gone well.
They start out civil, maybe even a bit funny, and then they quickly deteriorate into flame wars. You joined in September of THIS year, and the forums are quieter because most of these threads have been closed off, unlisted, and many of those users have left (or have been banned). There are entire arcs to these servers and forums: the Bitching Threads, the BL threads, politics threads, arguments, policies, webcomic contests, writers vs artists -- the list goes on.
I have seen the OPs of threads and random users dogpiled, even when they've had good intentons. And I have seen people throw out slurs and threats. It was not pretty -- it's still not pretty.
Joanne is correct -- we SHOULD be able to trust users to have good judgment calls and leave conversations if need be. Problem is -- on the internet, that rarely happens. And usually, a mod has to step in, do damage control, and close all threads. In the end, there was an unspoken rule NOT to do these topics because they rarely added anything meaningful or dived into a dumper fire.
And then that became a rule.
It's not that you're not being censored.
There is just a long, drawn-out, tiring history surrounding several discord servers, forums, and any other social media that have made mods crack down.
I also want to point out that these forums and discord servers don't even make a 10% dent of the creators, let alone users, on the Tapas site. This doesn't represent the site and its users. But a lot of people who come to the site have their first encounters HERE -- and when that encounter sucks, they leave and steer clear of ANY Tapas creator or ANY webcomic creator.
Newer users don't know of all that history, and frankly -- they don't need to know. It's craziness, and we're at a point where we're trying to give people a space to talk about their work without stress.
That might not appeal to you, and that's fair. But this is where we're at.
I don't wanna say that people aren't capable of having civil conversations. But like...if you're been here as long as I have, you just know when something will go down and it's better to put up the flame before you have to call the fire department.
I personally left it open to see if OP did want to have a discussion. But they admitted they started the thread out of their feeling of injustice over having their poll deleted in discord.
We allow topics about controversial topics, like I think this thread is a very fair example with excellent discussion points.
but other topics can get shut down pretty quickly depending on the responses of users. I remember one where someone asked for conservative leaning spaces to talk, but people jumped on that one really quickly and forced a closure before things got ugly. I would have kept that one up if it remained civil.
I think it's less about controversial topics and more about whether or not people will be civil, whatever the platform deems as civil, when it comes to discussing these topics. There's no guarantee. Especially for a platform that has a history of people spiraling off topic and becoming toxic due to being upset.
And also your freedom of speech, at least in the US, is protected from the government not private entities. It can become more of an issue when those entities become massive and ubiquitous, like twitter, on what they are willing to allow on their platform. Tapas, on the other hand, is not ubiquitous, and so they have the discretion to remove what they want and the moderators, like any other user, have the right to block who they choose.
* sigh*
I'll bite and actually respond the way you might've expected lol ok, so before I get into it: I was actually debating whether or not I should answer seriously. I haven't been here too long either, but I've seen enough threads go wrong to know that if I answer without being careful in how I word my viewpoints, the door swings open for the potential of harmful discourse. Quite frankly, I just.. don't wanna deal with the risk of it happening. I don't wanna waste time arguing about stuff and trying to defend my point of view to someone who refuses to acknowledge anything I say as a valid opinion. So haha funny answer it is bc it's nowhere near as exhausting
Anyways, to answer your questions. Politics and religion are big no-nos. Not that I go looking for it, but I've never seen conversations about either end in a civil way. Of everything mentioned, I'm almost positive these two have torn apart more families than they've helped unite. That's not to say that civil conversation can't be had, but.. the civil ones are far and few in between.
The question itself is harmless. If it were a poll and nothing else..? Everything would be fine, imo. Is it barebones on feedback?? Ehhhh maybe. I wouldn't blame you from wanting to discuss it further with those who voted, however...
I find asking the question itself is controversial in the sense that all it takes is "I don't see anything wrong with ___" in the comments and someone else to respond with "umm? how could you not see anything wrong with ___?" That's two sides of an argument, right there. Lots of generalizations can be tossed about, dogpiling if the sides are uneven, differing degrees of how strong the beliefs on said topic change the overall nature of the discussion.. and it usually leans towards the loud minority.
These people are generally loud but not bc they wanna have fun so um.. yeah, I'd just rather not. Controversy is exhausting, I'd rather not
To the point, is avoiding a topic a best way to go by?
The key of having moderators is to moderate a conversation.
If the moderators is to shut down conversation, I can make a bot to do the job.
Just make the bot auto delete any conversation that contains the said controversial word or phrase.
Now it can be what IndigoShirtProd said, in the end how civilized the participants of the conversation is.
Also, it can mean how well a moderators able to MODERATE the conversation.
"Shut up" "Don't ask" "Don't tell" are those sounds familiar?
If a moderator tell you to "Shut up" "Don't ask" "Don't tell"...
is it because, there shall be no moderation, just simply discouragement?
I don't think avoiding topics is the best way, but hot damn, is it way more convenient for everyone involved.
For the most part, I think it's fine. Granted, a few discussions on topics I was interested to listen in on have been shut down a little too quickly before they actually got heated in the past. Stuff like that is genuinely upsetting, but I get it. It's better to take those precautionary measures so that they don't have to moderate and be so vigilant of everybody's position. I'd like to think users are capable of moderating themselves too, but of course, you can only assume so much and still be right.
A more appropriate phrase might be "anything that can go wrong, will go wrong."