When Should You "Info-Dump"?

[cherrystark]

As I was working on one of my pieces, I realized that the prologue and first chapter or so straight worldbuilding. Usually, that's considered a major no-no. Heck! I've even rolled my eyes at a story where the prologue is obscure references to the magic systems and monarchies. While I could cut out info-dump prologue, it's a grabber. It sets the stage for the world and gives insight into the MC's motivations without openly saying it.

So, this leads me to my question - when do you think it is appropriate to "info-dump"?

[darthmongoose]

Oof... that's a tough one...

I think print books have a lot more freedom for this stuff, because generally somebody already bought it, so they're committed and will sit through an opening lore dump. On Tapas though... It's like how modern youtube movie trailers start out with a teaser of the "best bits" and then go into the actual trailer that has buildup and atmosphere because they're worried about people clicking "skip"... You have to open with something punchy or readers just go "Ugh, stop wasting my time!" and go look at another novel or comic.

I've seen a lot of successful works get around this by opening with an exciting scene, the inciting incident, and a very brief explanation of the premise, and then they backfill the necessary lore or backstory in the next few chapters.

[Katzalcoatl]

It depends on the target audience and the format you will publish your story.

For example, I don't recommend world building right at the start of an online novel that publishes chapters each week except maybe talking about gods and such things in the prologue.
Instead I recommend doing it when you sell it as a book.

The main difference is that in books readers already bought it so it is more likely they will finish the story while in 1k word chapters users many times don't have the patience to give anything a try.

I have to clarify that not all readers are like this. That's why at the start I mentioned that it depends on your target audience.

[Nugtown]

I've definitely learned my lesson about cutting the fat too much, and i've found the dreaded "info dump" will be inevitable at points. Maybe what matters more is how tastefully it gets handled. The details need to stay relevant to the time and place, and the information should be as to the point as you can make it, in other words if you want to talk about magic systems (guilty) ask yourself "Is the reader going to benefit from knowing this? Or is it flavor?" Cause if it's flavor, then save it for another time. Above all I think it's more important to avoid giant slabs of text looming over the panels, just keep it entertaining, you know?

With magic systems in particular, if i've decided the reader doesn't have to know about it to understand the story I make a small extra comic about it. That's where I can talk about whatever I want but it keeps the reading entirely optional (literally just 5 pages or less)

[moontokkym]

It's more a question of if you feel like you're in a spot where you have to info dump, make it interesting. If you've already worked out what doesn't have to be explained right now this minute, what can be just suggested and readers will pick up on with subtext and allusions, and what doesn't really need to be explained at all and you're still in an "info dump" scenario... make it interesting.

I'd personnally say avoid it if possible in the prologue because it does put readers off if they are immediately slapped in the face with a politics lesson with nothing really relatable to them (and I say that as someone who starts their comic with "date, location, this is the 5th world war", imo it's not the best) unless you know you're really good at giving a general outline of the things so that readers can understand what you're talking about within a few sentences, and then if needed you can deepen the meaning/subject later.

I'd actually recommend looking at how the Hunger Games does it. It introduces a lot of concepts within the first few chapters (the districts, the games themselves, the political and economic situation, the Capitol, Panam, the Reaping, the odds that Katniss' sister gets picked, etc...) almost entirely through internal monologue, but it stays interesting because the way it's presented and talked about tells us a lot about Katniss,

Basically less info dump more "info as salt", you can make a really varied and delicious meal with salt in everything.

[cherrystark]

You have to open with something punchy or readers just go "Ugh, stop wasting my time!" and go look at another novel or comic.

I've definitely been in this boat before. You did remind me of an important point when it comes to info-dumps as openers. The opening scene has to be immediately relevant to the rest of the story. Like in the first new Star Trek movie, Hemsworth's death scene plays a major role in Kirk's life. Storytelling wise, it's a smart love.

But openers like dream sequences or a random battle scene lose their impact because the writer might never reference them again.

I've definitely learned my lesson about cutting the fat too much, and i've found the dreaded "info dump" will be inevitable at points.

While I totally agree that every writer needs to learn how to cut the fat when it comes to their precious work, I'm also curious if the stigma comes from 1. online internet writing culture 2. writing wanting to be perceived as more clever than they really are. I remember beta-reading this one piece where the writer gave an in-depth analysis of their world in all four directions. It would have been incredibly interesting had they written the story as a story within a story or maybe a fictional reference guide to the world. But no, it was their opener. There are so many sources telling you that info-dumps are bad, but they never tell you when they're right.

[cherrystark]

Basically less info dump more "info as salt", you can make a really varied and delicious meal with salt in everything.

I love the analogy. My mom's biggest writing advice came from her old college professor. The piece should be long enough to cover the important stuff and short enough to be interesting. But in general, my rule of thumb is to let the character provide the world building.

The "problem" with this particular story is that I love the opener (prologue). It has remained largely unchanged since I scribbled it down onto a sheet of notebook paper years ago. It's been cleaned up but it's still fire. I still have more cleaning up to do on the later chapters, but it doesn't feel realistic for the MC to provide all the background. He can clarify things, like the stakes for himself and his family, but general worldbuilding - nope.

[harlan]

I think info dumps should generally be avoided and such information sprinkled out so that the reader's knowledge about the world comes out gradually and organically. That said, in Elf Noir, I start out in chapter one breaking my own rule. I agree with moontokkym that using an inner monologue can be a good way to get the information out, while at the same time building the character of the inner monologuer through the way they think through the information.

I think it's important to be objective with ourselves and ask why the reader needs the information at the time you want to give it. Your cool back story as to the world may not be immediately necessary for the plot and may impede the reader's interest rather than hone it. Trust me, I know; I've spent hours working on exactly such a prologue, only to discard it as not engaging the reader fast enough in the actual story. If you're like me, you love world-building - it's so cool - but it's not necessary or helpful to share all parts of it and overwhelm the reader with it, because sometimes you will lose the reader and then you're defeating the purpose of drawing them into your amazing world.

I have read some amazing "info dumps" in other novels and comics on here where I comment how much I love the information and the author says they are worried about info-dumping but the truth is they did such an integrated, subtle job of it that I didn't think of it as an info dump as I was reading at all. I think that is what you want to aim for. Providing information in such a way as it is immediately relevant, doesn't break the flow, and people are happy to learn it.

[river121693]

maybe the sources telling you infodumps are bad specifically use the word to describe when the author give a massive amount of information when it isn't needed (yet). That's what I thought the term meant, otherwise, it's just "giving information"

Large history prologue are needed in some stories I think, but only enough to contextualize important parts of your story. When done well, it feels brief, integrated, and sets you up for what to come. When done wrong, it feels like someone plop a random scientific journal on top of the fun book you're reading.

There are a lot of strategies to give info without dumping a massive amount of info on readers. You can sprinkle it in clever dialog, descriptions, and plot. Instead of having a prologue that describes how an asteroid crashes into earth and gives everyone magic, you can have a strong start in a mysterious world of wizards, and once the adventure gets going, have your character traverse a giant crater and casually drop the line "where the comet Bubba crashed into the land and gave everyone magic." You can couple the info with an exciting sequence-- during a battle, "the desperate paladin hero prays to the forsaken god, Jeff, crossing into a darker realm of magic to gain more power" You can even have brief self indulgent wolrdbuilding "chapters" that readers can skip.

[Nugtown]

It could be that, though i'm moreso willing to bet people just don't want to be bored. But I whole heartedly agree though people should be talking more about how to parse information or how to tastefully attack a lengthy exposition rather than avoid it entirely. I once read a manga that tackled chatter scenes between two characters by every so often splicing the dialogue with random depictions of animals (Wanitokagegisu) There are so many ways to keep things interesting.

When I first began I had something of a prologue, it wasn't too bad but I later felt like something was missing when I decided to start over without one. The thing I learned with opening expositions like that is understanding their utility other than telling readers stuff. You can use it to set the mood and general tone or theme of the story. So now not only do I really like it, I think it's especially valuable for all those reasons.

I saw a comic that had a magazine styled opening and while it was a neat way to present the exposition, it was so enormous I immediately checked out because when you boil it down, it was just this massive threatening text wall. I just hate giant blocks of text lol.

[Mallory]

I'm currently pitching a project to trad publishers, so I hang around in a lot of spaces for people who exchange professional writing advice and reader responses and stuff. And there was an interesting survey that asked a giant group of readers (of all genres) why they read and what makes them stick with a book. The answers were
1) Character building (overwhelming top response)
2) Plot, which tied with Prose (for most of the remaining fraction)
3) World-building (from a very small fraction of respondents)

So basically while writers certainly love to world-build, it seems like readers don't actually care that much. They'll appreciate the world-building, but mostly only in the context of good characters and writing.

That being said, I personally HAVE enjoyed books with heavy info-dumps, but they usually did something clever in terms of disguising the info-dumps as things that were directly relevant to plot and character development. For example, I really like Cyteen, which is a 600-page sci-fi book about a woman who embarks to clone herself and raise the clone in as close of an identical environment as possible (so that the clone will continue her life's work; she's very much a narcissist). The original scientist dies, and for the rest of the plot we are exposed to snippets of interviews with her, or her own recordings of significant life events, which the her loyal followers are referencing in raising her clone. But we get to see important elements of the plot, or the original scientist's character (which we can compare to the clone), even as she info dumps about the world and the cloning process. And it's embedded in the book as "raw footage" that makes sense within the plot, so it doesn't feel jarring to go from plot to info-dump.

So... I think it can be done well, and it's definitely not a definite "never do this" rule for me. I also just think it's important to remember that your readers don't care about your world if they don't care about the other stuff. So where you can info-dump depends on where you think the other things are (or have already been) established.

[vapidink]

So, the rule I try to follow is to info dump when it's absolutely necessary and not in the first chapters. Those first chapters should focus on building up the characters and giving readers a reason to stick around. Readers, for the most part, aren't going to care about the world you've built if they don't care about the characters. I get it, you love the world you've created and you're excited to share it, but readers don't have a reason to care about all that. They want to know who they're reading about and then they'll be excited about the world as your characters experience it.

A lot of times, I find that the info that might seem important for readers to know from the start isn't really. There's no real damage done if things are explained as the story moves along.

[cherrystark]

The thing I learned with opening expositions like that is understanding their utility other than telling readers stuff. You can use it to set the mood and general tone or theme of the story. So now not only do I really like it, I think it's especially valuable for all those reasons.

I agree. If you are opening the story with any type of cut scene, the cut scene needs to relate to the main action in the book immediately.

Many people have brought up having the characters explain the worldbuilding, which I agree but I think it needs to done smartly. I am not a fan of those stories where the 16-year-old, illiterate protagonist who has never left her family farm except to go to the market once a year, has an intricate knowledge of the world's socio-political structure.

So basically while writers certainly love to world-build, it seems like readers don't actually care that much. They'll appreciate the world-building, but mostly only in the context of good characters and writing.

I have been saying this for years!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually think I may have hurt a few writers' feelings in another forum by saying that no one cares about your story as much as they did and that our job as writers was to give them a reason to care about the story. They could have volumes of worldbuiling but it's ultimately meaningless without good characters and a solid plot.

[IndigoShirtProd]

I was always under the impression that info dumping should be saved for when the reader has a lot of how and why questions saved up. Things happen, not without some explanation, but nothing too concrete or detailed. You can gleam the story from the bits of explanation but, like most people at the end of a mystery, they want to know how and why what happened happened. If you can build up some form of anticipation, then readers are more willing to sit through a scene of explanation.

Now the scene can't be boring, and it's better to not have the information be given the same in every instance of info dumping. In a manuscript of mine there are two or three "info dumping" scenes in the middle chapters. One scene is a series of journal entries that is explaining the origin of a character, another is a flashback that's explaining the background of another character, and one more is a conversation explaining the motivations of yet another character and ends in a dramatic moment. As long as there's something for the readers to chew on before the scene, in the scene, or after the scene (and they get some form of question answered), they're going to be willing to sit through it and feel like they got rewarded for putting up with an informational dump. It also helps of the info dump is related to a character, like all my examples have shown. If it's just information for information's sake, is it really informative?

[moontokkym]

In that case I'd say send it out to beta readers, even better, send the first 2 chapters without the prologue to some, and send with the prologue to others, and ask them for feedback specifically about the flow and if they understand everything, how they felt reading the story, etc... that's the only way to work out if what you're doing is working or if you're going to have to murder your darling for the good of the book.

[TheLemmaLlama]

it's a grabber.

Now that's different - usually I hear writers say 'I know it's boring but I have to tell readers all this background info or else they won't understand the plot!'

If you yourself feel your intro is a grabber (and it has remained largely unchanged for years), I'm inclined to believe there really is something there. I'm kind of interested in reading this intro (though I only check these forums twice a week so I might not get back to you that quickly). And I have a pretty short attention span for info dumps in prose form in particular, so trust me, I'll tell you if I think your info dump doesn't work (and why) XD

[cherrystark]

And I have a pretty short attention span for info dumps in prose form in particular, so trust me, I'll tell you if I think your info dump doesn't work (and why) XD

I may take you up on that. This particular project has been really slowly especially since I decided to throw out the majority of what I had prepared and rework it.

Now that's different - usually I hear writers say 'I know it's boring but I have to tell readers all this background info or else they won't understand the plot!'

If you yourself feel your intro is a grabber (and it has remained largely unchanged for years), I'm inclined to believe there really is something there.

I like to think there is something there. In the earlier drafts, the main action happened like 10 years prior to the start of the story, so a lot of the background you HAD to know upfront to understand the main point. I moved the story 100 years into the future and it still tracks. You need the backstory to understand why this man's 6 and 8-year-olds are technically enemies of the state, even though they're babies.

[TheLemmaLlama]

Just read it; I don't actually think it was very info-dumpy My attention strayed a few times, but not due to info-dumpiness - it's just backstory that is vividly described like any scene should be! I don't think that makes it more info-dumpy than any other scene narrated in a similar way, just because it's backstory rather than what's happening 'currently'

[blakestackman]

Giving information isn't the issue, it is how you deliver that information. Dumping everything in one huge heap makes the reader work harder, and often it takes away from the story because you've put the entire story on hold to lecture your reader about specific topics relating to your book. And the thing is...it isn't necessary if you have the skills to make it part of the story, and only introducing the information when it's necessary. Sometimes, too much information can ruin a story - takes away the mystery and sometimes may come off as condescending, as though you think your readers aren't smart enough to work it out for themselves.

That was my version of info dumping - thanks!