Where do you put Tapas on your road to success?

[therosesword]

For those of you who have seen me in the forum you know I've already had a writing career (minor) with audio drama and a couple magazine gigs and a book (non-fiction).

But as I'd always written spoken word (plays and audio drama) and a little film I had never tried writing a novel.

For me Tapas is a chance to see if I can actually write novels or not. So far it's working out okay. One of my shorter ones has been optioned for a screenplay (who knows if it will get sold) but that happened prior to putting it on Tapas (like the day I announced on social media that it would be posted here). And, I certainly did not expect to start a multi-volume fantasy story.

So... we'll see.

[ar-ninetysix]

It's a detour tbh I just sorta wound up here lol

As some people might be able to tell, I'm more of music guy than anything else but it just so happens that I wanna try out writing a comic so like.. idk! My heart's really into music, but I'm also loving the process of making a comic (even if it's going painfully slow atm for me), so like who knows what happens afterwards? Maybe I take writing more seriously, maybe I go into the world of producing music, maybe I do both full time or follow another career path entirely.. We'll see how it goes

[alinlaphel]

It's hard to say really. I started my story wanting to make a manga. I want it to be like the Pixiv mangas where you can read it online but be able to make a print run of it. When you look at my story, there are a lot of evidence of this such as consideration for page gutters, imitating release schedules, interactions of panels, and creating anticipation to turn the page. I design my story as manga first and a webtoon second. This will be and always will be my end goal.

I never planned to post on Webtoons or Tapas because I prefer making my story in a book format. I ended up being convinced by my friend to do so, mostly since I was starting from complete zero; I had no following and didn't post my art prior to posting my story. Posting on sites with an audience would be better than striving out on my own. It was a bit rocky start since I struggled to figure out how to convert a manga to a webtoon smoothly and, most importantly, quickly. While I did figure out a semi quick way to do so, I realize my story lost a lot of what made it manga. Vertical comics have a different feel to them and it was hard to do the same without having to heavily edit my story to fit the form. I eventually came to a compromise where I can display it more like a manga, do so in a timely fashion, and fit the vertical format.

In a way, I came to enjoy posting my story on both Webtoons and Tapas. While I continue to make my story like a manga, I am getting the hang of shifting it into a vertical format. It definitely gets more attention on these sites than it does if I made my own site or just post on Pixiv. I would prefer if there was the ability to read it via page viewers but I won't complain about it. It's hard to say where the future takes me. If my story really picks up in terms of popularity, Tapas and/or Webtoons might be main platform with making a print book and site become a second priority. Until then, it is a stepping plateau that I will be around on for quite some time.

[Freemints30]

I see it as just a starting point. I can use it to learn how to draw, format comics and learn how to write prose with nice feed back from the community.

I have to say this community have gave me soo much useful feed back on how to write and draw and I don't think I would have improve without it, since I have 0 formal training in any form. If I manage to get my novel to go premium (as low chance as it is) I would consider that a big step in my creation adventures. But if not then at least I had the practice and skills to get into traditional publication. And I'm thankful for it

[ratscout]

I think Tapas is more of a stepping stone to me. I really love the community here, but there ain't no way the stuff I write will ever be big on here, I think. XD I view Tapas as a platform to make connections and build up a readership, but my endgame is to self-publish/traditionally publish my stories. In the case of self-publishing, I think it really helps to have that built-in fanbase for your work before you go spending tons of money on editors, marketing, and in some cases, coverart.

[saffasas]

Hey, I worked in a literary agency for a while, and honestly submitting your manuscript to an agent is as easy as sending an email. You can find out about what the individual agents are looking for on the agency website, and then it’s just a matter of putting together a list of people who are looking for work similar to yours (and represent people whose work is like yours, usually, though sometimes they rep a range of things. You can also see who the authors you admire are repped by and try to find contact emails for them!) and dropping them an email with the sample that they ask for (you can find that on their website too). You can submit to as many agents as you like, though it’s often best to do it in batches of as many as you can handle at once, say 10 if there are 10 or more you’re interested in. ‘Cause that way you can make changes based on any feedback you get before you submit to your second batch. Then once you have an agent it’s up to them to handle all the business side of publishing, and you just have to focus on writing. Or I guess if you want to be involved you could probably find an agent who would be willing to discuss the business side with you in a lot of depth too. It’s a very mutually respectful relationship!

[domisotto]

The hard part is getting the form rejections, tbh, not the submission process. I think if acceptance was more likely, submitting would have been easier

[scribesunlimited]

Yeah, the submitting part is really easy.
Acceptance is the monumental chore.

[CJYoung]

Thanks for that! Good info to know!! I'll have to take a look sometime soon.

[saffasas]

Yeah, that’s true it’s so hard as well when you just get a generic rejection email with no feedback! I had to send out quite a few of those (maybe it will help a bit to know that they’re not at all fun to send either? ...but probably that isn’t much of a consolation!) I really think though that doing that research and making sure that you’re submitting to agents who are likely to get along with your work will make the whole process better because you’re less likely to get rejections (and you’ll definitely get fewer if you’re only submitting to a select few agents, because that’s fewer people to read it in the first place!) and maybe sending it to an editor and getting it as ... not ‘polished’ necessarily but as tight as you can before you send it. The competition to be noticed is fierce! The agency I worked at got dozens of general, unaddressed, unsolicited submissions a day, and each agent got dozens to their personal inboxes and the children’s submissions got like 70-100 a day! But that doesn’t really matter tbh. You aren’t really competing against those other people. You don’t have to be better than the rest, you just have to be putting the right shaped peg in the right shaped hole.
Also, I know this is what everyone says, but it’s really true that a rejection doesn’t mean that your work is bad! It’s hard to find the right fit, but if you get a rejection letter it just means that that agent wasn’t the right one to rep that submission, so it’s a good thing that they didn’t take it on, because you would have had to work with them to make changes to your book and if their weren’t right then you would have been making your book into something different, something that doesn’t chime with your original vision!

[domisotto]

Yes, I am just resolved to post my work online, until I see success online--and I am saying it as someone who so far has 8 completed on-line novels, not just one favorite story to sell. The only thing I know how to do is to write. So, I will keep on writing in hopes of success instead of putting my time for querying or promotion.

Because in the end of the day, what I truly and actually want is readership. I want to tell stories that people will not skip or skim or ignore.

The chance to get it through pursuing traditional publishing is pretty much nil.

You have to sit on each manuscript for years, pay for editing—and who knows if the editor is truly good?--get rejections, then, even if an agent accepts you and believes in your book, they need to find a publisher. Most books that get published don’t even sell well, despite tonss of time and effrots required to prepare it for publication. So you don’t even get those 100 subs to warm your soul that you can get here... just your book in print (and I can print it for the cost of paper).

It just doesn’t feel worth of the years of being pounded with the faceless rejections. I don’t really believe profitable books get rejected with a form letter. Lol.

[surenlicious]

I would see I consider Tapas as one of the many mediums to get my work seen and build a steady community around it. I've been writing my novel for three years now, and I have an extra bonus that I draw and do my own marketing/networking to get my novel readers.

I've been on many platforms before, starting out n the humble fanfiction community about 15 years ago, to now here on Tapas. My novel will be four years old this year, and I'm happy it's getting fresh eyes every now and then. I still am working on getting it published someday, and hope to provide my first readers with a copy.

[CJYoung]

In the words of the Tim Allen in Galaxy Quest, never give up, never surrender!!

Also, profitable stories do in fact get rejected. Harry Potter was turned down multiple times.
Bet those agents regretted that poor choice after the fact, LOL.
So you never really know, and that's why it's good to keep trying.
But, do it at your own pace and comfort level of course.

[domisotto]

Also, profitable do in fact get rejected. Harry Potter was turned down multiple times.

I think we all have heard that, and about Stephen King, but tbh, it only means that’s it is even more hopeless, because we don’t get to hear many stories of those who failed. There was this bitter guy on Wattpad, who literally tried everything, endlessly querying, and writing more and more, and in the end everyone hated him, because he had tried for decades and did all those things that gives the most pluses.

I don’t want to turn into that guy and earn a black mark on my files by submitting more and more stories to the agents. Once I am shot down, I feel it’s wiser not to persist.

[CJYoung]

Well, again, I'm not saying I think it's right to push for something at the cost of all else.
And if you think it's better not to pursue the option, then that's no one's choice but yours.
Traditional publishing isn't for everyone, and I totally agree that it seems crazy hard to get your foot in the door, let alone succeed.
But tbh, in terms of being afraid to continue submitting, this guy on Wattpad is the first and only story I've heard of where, as you seem to imply, he has been somewhat blacklisted from publishers?
However, I can't help but think there was more at play than just the fact some people might have felt his constant submissions were annoying.
Of course, I don't know this guys story personally, but maybe frustration or desperation played a part in his final outcome as well?
On the other hand, though they are rare, I've heard of more stories where someone who believed in their product kept trying, even if it was at different times, with different tactics, etc.
No, that won't be the outcome for the majority.
No, I'm not saying everyone should do that if it doesn't make sense for their journey.
And I'm not saying that everyone who likes to write will find people who thinks they are good at it.
But I also don't think a few rejections should stop someone from trying again, if they find a time and agency that seems right for them.

[domisotto]

Of course, I don't know this guys story personally, but maybe frustration or desperation played a part in his final outcome as well?

I can’t imagine not growing frustrated and desperate after years of rejections. I dunno. If I get 50K reads on a story naturally one day, without exchanges and promotions, just because people love it, then I will think about querying it—because I have popular appeal to back me up. Until then, I will keep writing and searching for a way to write The Book. I mean, I almost believed I wrote The Book, but apparently not.

[CJYoung]

Yeah, I mean I do understand that frustration. We've all felt it at one point or another.
I think I gave up on the idea of becoming a writer by trade before I even really started my journey.
That way I wouldn't feel too bad if it never worked out.
But things are different for everyone.
I've seen books on Wattpad with a low amount of views win the Watty's, and books with tons of views sit there and go nowhere.
I think becoming an author is a unique experience for everyone. There's literally no one way to do it.
There's not even a perfect genre that equates to popularity or readership.
I think the most important thing is to just do your best and have fun with it.
Once you lose your joy for writing, be it by frustration or bitterness, you ruin the whole journey for yourself.

[domisotto]

I've seen books on Wattpad with a low amount of views win the Watty's, and books with tons of views sit there and go nowhere.

Mine had 6.5K views at the time of winning, but even with the Watty win, it did not snowball like the popular books do. When the Watty winners band was high on the front page in Dec, it showed 100-150 people checking it out, and once that band moved down the page, it halved. So, even with that stellar promo as a Watty winner I still can't push into the growing trend I need to succeed and get exponential increase. My friend actually told me she didn't see it until she had 100K, which is too far out for me.

I've started with fantasy and sci-fi, I moved to contemporary, and I've even just tried a werewolf BL. So far, I hadn't hit the slip-stream. But I will keep looking for it, changing things, until I either get there or don't.

Tapas is an easier place to check the book out right away vs Wattpad. The growth I had seen here on the books that would grow is astounding.