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Jun 2017

I'm just surprised with the amount of non mobile friendly comics I found here on tapas
I'm not saying that non mobile format should be completely dismissed, not at all,

But as someone who reads on my mobile, I figure I should mention it here on the forum since the forum is tilted heavily toward creator,
that mobile friendly comic is future proofing your content
cos everything is moving toward mobile internet
and desktop reading will be a thing of the past,
maybe not tomorrow but in the next several years for sure

I'm just surprised to see how many content is still all jammed up together in book format,
not a pleasant experience to read it on mobile, since the screen is alot smaller
thus it's alienating the tapas customer who reads it on mobile,
which I believe is a big chunk

just sayin' :unamused:

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Because I think a lot of creators would want to publish their comic as a book one day. (I know I do for most of my series at least.)
It takes extra time reformatting stuff for either layout and I think creators would rather spend that time just working on their comic.

It is each creator's preference to decide in what format to shape their work.
It isn't weird most creators are considering the possibility of publishing/self-publishing in the traditional medium, so they can receive some revenue for their hard work.
I personally, read on desktop and according to a big poll on twitter, the majority of readers are STILL doing this on their laptops/desktop versions.
As long as a story is legible, I honestly don't think it matters - it's ether compelling enough to make you want to keep reading or not.

Well, you have to remember that not everyone is producing their comic purely for digital. A lot of creators take it to print or want to print it some day. (I sure as heck don't make money off it online so you better believe I'm printing and selling my comic at conventions)

And to be quite honest, I read "book" type comics just fine on mobile? I've never had a problem reading them on my phone. It's just a matter of creator preference--neither side is better than the other.

Honestly I like the comic book format way better. I feel like they have better flow to them.
The mobile formats tend to become a long stream of heads talking to each other with huge blank space between them. Not say all comics are like this, it's just something I've noticed with some of them and didn't like it. There are a lot of really nicely done mobile format ones.

I thought about doing mobile format for a new comic, (because they seem popular) but I don't feel like I could wrap my head around doing it right. Then as people have said, if I wanted to print the comic, I would have to reformat everything for print and that would take a lot of time.

Ohhh nooo....indi artists not conforming to a publishing standard.... how did this happen? Who could have foreseen this??

I actually haven't had too much trouble reading the page by page comics on the phone, tapas mobile set up actually makes it so that page by pages read VERY nicely on the phone, to the point that I like reading those better than the scrolling ones on the phone. Generally what stops me is the font size/type, and this is an issue for a LOT of 'mobile friendly' comics as well.

As an artist I work on both scrolling and page by page comics and the page by page versions do a LOT better on tapastic than the scrolling ones. So clearly people are still reading and preferring that format when given a choice. If the audience and ad rev would start showing something different in regards to the numbers than maybe more artists would be willing to jump on that.

I mean... technically catering to mobile readers only would be 'alienating' the rest of the audience that reads my comics. It just doesn't seem wise.

A lot of people want physical copies of their comics, whether it's the goal of being published or just printing your own. It's hard to scrape together scrolling format panels to make them look good. The composition of a whole page is a skill in itself. Also, to me, a whole page of art is just nicer than scrolling pages, because you can look at it all at once and it's like a piece of art on its own, so it's something I'd rather produce!

Could be just habit tho. The whole history of comics kind of... pushes towards the page format? It's what I'm used to and what I think of when I picture how a comic should look ('cept for like strips in newspaper). Maybe that'll change in time, who knows.

(also for me at least, Tapas isn't the first and only place I post, so I know this place is mobile optimised, but not everywhere is)

I get it, some comics can be hard to read on mobile, and that is where I read most of my comics as well. I can say I don't care either way whether they are mobile optimized or in page layout. Things that concern me the most are legibility. I hate having to keep zooming in and out to read text and I reaaaaaally have to be invested in something to keep with it!

For my own comic, I have it set up to be printed, but...I also try not to have vertical panels often, and the letters are a bit larger to help with readability.

There is no denying that larger and larger segments of users are accessing the web via phones and tablets. It is important from a creator standpoint to think about the primary medium, and primary audience when creating content. So that means planning ahead and setting up print ready pages or making panels in ways that are optimized for mobile.

ehhhhhhhhmmmmmmmnnnnnnggg i dunno. honestly i dont think print will die. aside from the classique nerd who loves to collect their titles, theres something personally very satisfying about Having the comic. its similar to CDs, which still get shifted almost two decades since the MP3. also, publishing houses have the power to print work, and as comics mature as an art form and begin to be taken more seriously, we'll be less and less limited in publisher choices imo.

similarly, i dont think desktop reading will die. i read all my comics (print and web-) on desktop, and people arent gonna grow out of laptops. laptops are here to stay.

also i feel like theres not as much to do in mobile friendly format? i know you can get very experimental, if youve got the head for it, but i see my work here as practice for uni, and my future career, that could well be very print focused. regardless, uni will be looking at the tried and tested methods of comic artists of the print world. its not in my interest to make my comics scroll-to-reveal style, and its not in my interest either; its boring to me.

that all said, obviously it is a good idea to make your comic palatable on mobile. like you said, it can alienate a large chunk of your audience. but i think for a lot of people, making their comic in the style theyre enthusiastic about, which includes the paneling choices, is a priority over popularity. i think it would be nice if people did more with the scrolling, because its there and can be pretty useful, but if someone wants to print then what can they do?

I just tilt my phone sideways. That pretty much solves it for me. :wink:

I actually have been thinking about this a lot.
Personally I would like to move to a mobile format (I don't think I'll ever actually print my comic) but... I know a lot of the readers are use to how it is now. :confounded: At the moment I just put the Mobile Format on Webtoons and leave it as it is here. Besides, I find Webtoons is more Mobile and Tapas is more desktop >_> Least thats how it is among people I have asked.
This could also have a lot to do with the publication of 1 page per week rather than an 'episode' which is what most mobile comics are in.
Any future comics I do I certainly plan to leave the regular book format for more of a scrolling one. But not sure how I'd want to format it (Future problems lol not important now)

Since every comic that NO-Earth produces is destined for print (our first three are out already), mobile is such a small piece of our market that it would be counterproductive to spend the time and money needed to create a version just for mobile.

Eagle
(and it's confusing enough having to keep up with all of the mirror site formats)

it's truly up to the creators to decide what they want to do. I have originally started with print format because.. well.. it was a school project intended to be printed out and shared to class. After that, I moved to scroll formats, because I personally enjoy reading one smooth scroll. I write my newer webtoons thinking that the screen is a window that lets you see a bit at a time, rather than as a simple "display" for a page.

I happened to come by Scott McCloud's thoughts on using the web as a platform for new comics
http://scottmccloud.com/1-webcomics/icst/icst-4/icst-4.html6

Honestly, the main reason Aiiro No Kunoichi isn't in mobile format is because smart phones weren't really a thing when I started it, heh. #oldfogeylife

I considered adapting it for mobile format when I started posting it here, but it has some creative panel layouts that would be completely lost in such a format, so I opted to just leave it as-is.

because mobile format is dumb and boring and overused

nah haha I kid (not really about the overused part tho. a lot of people use it and because a lot of people use it for the sake of using it, a lot of people don't know how to use it right)

I have the same reasons as everyone else as to why I do my comics in print format - because I want to print my work. For my other comics like Sociowrath and Uzuki, yeah, they're built vertically, because they're a lot easier to stack vertically and I don't really plan on printing them (and if I do, they're made in a way that would be easy to format into a book). Time Gate: Reaper though needs its horizontal planes, its panel variety, its double page spreads, and its formatting for print.

It would be foolish to believe laptops and such are gonna disappear anytime soon though, at least within our lifetime. You wanna write a novel on a Samsung Galaxy S5?

I think this depends on the comic. If you have a heavily detailed style or lots of dialogue, I would say your readers shouldn't be reading you on a tiny screen.

Actually maybe you guys can settle an argument. My comic is two panels wide and has an incredibly simplistic style and colour scheme with minimal dialogue. It's ultimately supposed to be for English language learners both as a study tool and as reading practice. I think it's OK as it is now on a smartphone screen but my room mate keeps telling me to make it one panel wide.

He double checks my strips on his mobile. He should wear glasses but doesn't.

What do you guys reckon? Gombik Comics7

Desktop reading a thing of the past? Not in my household, buster!
Those little screens are not ideal...no sir.
I get irked when I see people out in public with their faces glued to their phones, especially when it's a group of friends together. It's a silly sight, real kodak moments. The notion of catering to that habit makes my blood boil a little bit. I refuse. Scrolling format doesn't do it for me anyway. If this limits my audience then so be it.
Old school, baby. I was bummed when theaters went to digital projectors.
Starting to feel old sucks.

I think it is important to note that just recently mobile internet usage surpassed desktop usage, and the trend will only continue. This can be seen from a web developer standpoint in that there is a focus on responsive design, progressive apps, and web apps.

From a user standpoint, laptops aren't going anywhere because it is difficult to do work without a keyboard! But it does seem as though laptops are being relegated more and more to work related functions and less leisure time functions. Even from a commerce perspective, now that web stores are making their sites more mobile compatible users are doing most of their shopping through their mobile.

I think about my own habits, and I only trot out my laptop when I can't accomplish something on my phone or tablet. I even notice this among my parents who only have an iPad and iPhone, and don't even own a laptop. So, whether you like the trend or not the fact is that it is only going to continue to grow.

I think it always important to think about how the end user is consuming your content, and realize with attention spans what they are these days if things are inconvenient to view an audience will go elsewhere. Just something to consider as one tries to balance building a web audience with printing a final product.

Yes I completely agree with you on this. Lately people have been gearing their website more toward a mobile user friendly because mobile usage is in fact becoming bigger and bigger by days. A lot of people I know don't even have a laptop/desktop and do everything they need on their little cellphone. (Some do have laptop, but don't bother to use it because cellphone is just that more convenient) On web design standpoint, we are required to do mobile adaptive and some of our customers don't even care much about the desktop side of thing and focus more on mobile adaptive along with all sort of social media because those are the big thing nowadays.

In the end, it's just a creator's preference to which side of the spectrum they want to gear more toward. Comic isn't as easily mobile adaptive as a website with flexible coding, so sometimes it's a choice of either or, can't be both.

Me personally I find vertical scrolling format has been great for me, and even those readers that seem to only enjoy manga page seem to be okay with mine. (Granted I don't overuse the white space and I still work on my comic page - by - page, each page just has less panel than an average manga page) I think with this method, if I want to print my comic in the future, it shouldn't be too much of a problem (Maybe it will be a tad more page than the average comic, but hey)

First of, I'd like to thank everyone who chime in on this topic,
I definitely more enlightened after reading all the different opinion

@DMBrigman Your responses definitely put together my preference for the mobile format much better than I do here. When I posted this thread, I'm not trying to force creators to do it all in mobile, it really is up to the creator what format they wanna make it, but I sincerely believe that in the next few years, the shift to mobile will become more and more obvious that it is not something you can ignore like it is right now.

@Kimoisempai that Scott McCloud's comic is excellent!!

@GombikComics I would say one panel per line is better, I'm all for mobile
my phone is bigger than the regular galaxy/iphone and your comic still looks small to me, I mean it was still fine and readable but I think it will be better as one panel per page.
I agree with your opinion on if it's a highly detailed comic with dialog, reading it on tiny phone probably not ideal.

For those of you who advocate for book format in desktop/laptop viewing, I have a question:
Were you already webcomic readers from way back before smartphone era?
I feel like reading from the responses here, you would have to be comfortable reading it in a laptop because it was something you're already used to.

I mean I get it, a well made book format have a certain beauty to it,
I still read manga in print and digital format, although for the latter, I only read it on a tablet, not a phone, from official licensed publisher app like viz, crunchyroll, or comixology,
I find it highly uncomfortable if I have to go to a webpage to read something one these mobile devices, since most of those webcomic sites arent mobile friendly at all.

Reading is one of my entertainments, and the last thing I wanna do when I want to be entertained is sitting on a chair with a laptop on the desk, it just feels like I'm working, doesn't feel like leisure activity.

With the smartphone, I can be laying around on the sofa/bed, waiting for a friend inside a car, sitting in the waiting room of a doctor/vet, etc etc,
basically the consumption of that entertainment is much more flexible.
So if I wanna check out something new on webtoon/tapas, these are the times I browsed around looking for new things.

My tablet, however, is not something I carry everywhere, so I reserved the tablet to read something I know for sure is worthwhile, like really good manga that I've been following or kindle books,
because these products that I bought are usually have met my standard that worth my time sitting down and read, instead of on the fly entertainment.

Self published webcomics have extreme variation in quality, very few out there I personally invested in, so I'm less likely to allocate specific time to sample new ones, I just do it on my phone in different time of day to fill time.
I guess I should install tapas app on my tablet if I care enough to sampler all the book format webcomic,

Smartphone is a more widely used, and while book format still great for a tablet, it is usually too cramped and small for a phone.
If you have to sample how many of the internet comic reader population own mobile phone vs tablet, I think the numbers would be greatly tilted toward phone.

The laptop just can't compete with the comfort and convenient of phone and tablet.

I agree, it is all up to the creator whatever format you wanna make it,
but seeing all the complaints out there about visibility etc etc, and the amount of work involved making a webcomic, I think it is fair to say that deep down all creators want their work to be found and read, and being popular is some kind of acknowledgements that your work is well received.
Otherwise, why even bother to put it on the internet at all?

What I'm trying to say is, that more and more internet users are going mobile and while it may not seem like it today, this number will implode considerably in the next few years that mobile format is not something a creator should ignore.
The number of webtoons readers vs tapastic or hiveworks is a proof of how many people are reading on mobile,
they may not chimed in on this forum because this forum is not on the app, and it seems like only creators bother going out of their way to take out their laptop and type in here, so it seems like the responses here are tilted toward pro book format more than mobile.

However, not trying to contradict my previous points about mobile format,
while mobile does expose your work towards more internet users which now growing up with smartphone,
these users consume things differently than those who going out of your way to sit down and read something in book format.
They kind of consume it like disposable fast food most of the times. So your chance of getting these kids opening their wallet and fund your print version through kickstarter etc is probably quite slim.
It's a different kind of reading habit.
I included myself in these crowd, but once in a while I found a free webcomic from my phone that I thought was great and I'm willing to open my wallet for them, and I would never have found them if it weren't from webtoon/tapas on my phone.

Thank you for this :slight_smile: I understand you're trying to look at this industry practically, and honestly, I agree with you in many ways. I read manga and webtoons on my phone mostly. Sure I have a physical manga collection (which I love), but I've also spent money on webtoon sites like Lezhin or supported people on patreon. I want to make comics and help the industry grow, and if it means printing my comic is a lower priority then so be it.

I appreciate you posting a more comprehensive reply about your feelings on the subject!

Personally, while I do use my smartphone like you (lounge on the couch and read, check social media, etc.), by and large I am sitting at my desktop because it's where I work as an artist. I prefer using the internet on my desktop overall because it's not as clunky feeling to me. I feel like mobile versions of websites are often really squished and cluttered and kind of a pain to navigate.

And when it comes to Tapas, the mobile app just doesn't have all the same functionality. They closed the gap a little recently, but the app still doesn't have notifications, wall posts, or the forums... so by default I just prefer using the desktop version if I'm interacting with the community or finding new things to read. I mostly just use the app when I'm out and a comic I'm subbed to updates.

But, I also am old enough to be one of those people who remembers webcomics before there were platforms like Tapas or Webtoons. So that could be part of my preferences as a reader. To be fair though, I also didn't read many webcomics back then because of how tedious it was having to click "Next" for every page and had to remember to check the sites for new updates. Finding Tapas changed that for me and made it easier to read, even on desktop. I read more webcomics now than I ever have.

I came across Lezhin a week ago, I have not spent much time in it yet because it seems like it is heavily geared toward BL and sexually explicit content? or am I wrong?
What's your thought on Lezhin?

as far as print format, I've seen that webtoon featured artist Jason Brubaker who made Sitrah draw everything in book format and converting it to webtoon afterwards11, so that if you ever get to have to print it one day, you already have it in print format
If you read Sitrah on webtoon on a mobile app, you would see how beautiful it is and it is not a lesser artistic medium than book format.
I can't say the same for most other webtoon/webcomic in mobile format.

I realized it is extra work and creator would rather spend time on making the comics instead, but considering the amount of extra market you can tap into in the future, it might not be a bad idea.

@revisionstudios tapas app seems to notify me when a series get an update, it might be in the setting?

No no, not notifications of a series updating. I get those. I'm talking creator-end notifications about new subs/likes/comments on my series and when other creators post something on their wall. I hate having to wait until I get home to check all that.

oh from the creator POV, that make sense,
that explains why the creators prefer the desktop vs the app

Ahh I love Jason Brubaker~ And Lezhin didn't used to push BL but it started doing really well in the past year so they've been marketing it more, think Killing Stalking. Lezhin does have more sexually explicit content (though it does have other genres like action, comedy, etc), that's one of its main differentiating features with LINE which is their main competition overseas. They target older readers. Also, it only allows a certain amount of free chapters until you have to pay, but this also means the quality is kept rather high. Very few Lezhin comics have dissapointed me.

They did a few contests and they do take in submissions from creators (4 episodes I think) but they have to me mobile friendly and usually around 70 panels long. So rather high standards and it would take a creator a significant amount of time to create the submission. It's more exclusive than the free-for-all that is the Discover section on LINE, but the art and story have to be good. Personally, I don't mind the paywall (their readership isn't as young as LINE probably and so more willing to pay), though I think english readers will take time to get used to it since we're spoiled :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: I've also heard that Lezhin artists are paid or treated better and so many Korean artists have moved there.

Ahhh sorry for rambling, but Lezhin doesn't get much love in this forum but I like it and wished people pursued publishing there more.

oh wow! Lezhin sounds like a pretty good company, I shall check em out!
on a glance, they seems to be pushing sexual BL stuff, so I was a bit put off by the first impression.

I love reading seinen manga, but I don't specifically look for violence and sex as main selling point, if it's supporting the story, I welcome it very well.:slight_smile:

I wouldn't mind the paywall if the quality is higher, I got so mad sometimes when spending time to read something and it turns out to be really sucky, even if it's free, which becomes my main deterrent to invest time to look for new self publish stuff, the market is so oversaturated with junk, make it difficult to find the hidden gem.:unamused:

Thanks for your thoughts.

I guess if somebody is really committed, they'd have the option for mobile format and wide screen format. But Tapas doesn't offer that so I guess artists just have to make the decision they think is right for them.

I designed mine specifically for print because I plan to actually print it and sell at cons, its also drawn mainly traditional so I don't want to make any kind of weird chopping edits to some parts, and I don't feel like going back almost 70 pages already just to reformat it for mobile when I could be working on a new page instead.

There are a few comics that are obviously made JUST for mobile and they are impossible to read even on a tablet. Scrolling for inches just to find a panel is UGH.

you don't have to convert to mobile, and this is a valid reason.
when it comes down to it, story and art is most important, and those things already took so much work already,
it is understandable that creator dont want to waste time doing extra work for mobile.
Besides, it seems like there's still plenty of people these days who prefer book format.

I'm just merely pointing out that future trend are showing signs of moving toward mobile,
in the future, digital will have more exposure than physical book ever be,
and the more people can discover your hard work, the more chance you'll get more readers, that's all :slight_smile:

May I suggest that tablet and mobile phone may not be the same target audience
People usually buy tablet for reading book format or watching movies,
those things are too small to be done on phone

it would be hard to nail both mobile phone and tablet at the same time
if you go mobile, I'd suggest focusing on phone, more people own phone than they do tablet

with how fast technology change these days, it is another challenge for creators to present their work :expressionless:

it would take enormous change in the writing of the app and websites for Tapas to offer both book and mobile format
I highly doubt they have the time, $$$ and resources to do it
and honestly, it's not worth it for tapas,
their app should just stick to mobile
your specific comic would work on either platform even if you leave it as is

if anyone should do it, maybe hiveworks who has large enough audience who are used to read in book format should do app version of book format webcomic, kinda like what viz, crunchyroll and comixology
somehow I doubt they have the money and resources to pull that off :pensive:

To answer this question, yes, I was reading webcomics long before I ever had a mobile device, so I'm definitely more used to reading them on my computer. In fact, I find that most websites in general are clumsy on mobile devices (as someone else mentioned) to the point that I find the idea of reading comics on a mobile device slightly absurd. XD But that's just me and my old fogey-ness, lol.

Yeah, I think most series post book formatted pages because they intend on print/publishing them. There are a handful of creators though that offer both a mobile version and a page format version. That's a feature I've offered for years with my series, and a lot of reader appreciate the option of both. Some just prefer it one way over the other. :shrug:

However, I do agree with your points that when reading on a mobile device it's more convenient when it's already formatted to be read easily there. And honestly, Tapas shares that feeling as well since there was an announcement a few years back that mobile friendly series get featured and highlighted more than non-mobile friendly series. I'm not sure if this is still the case since that was a while ago, but it's suck with me at least so I continue to offer my series both ways.

As a creator my main goal has always been to create something I enjoy making, so I chose my format to suit my personal taste and not what will get me most readers. I know it's smart to have a mobile friendly comic these days, but I personally find the format to be very limiting. I like the flow of a regular page format and the size gives me more space to work with.

I've been reading online comics for who knows how long (since 2003 maybe?) and I've had an online comic before this one that I hosted on a site of it's own. So, actually for me it was quite a new experience to post my comic on a hosting site. Anyways, I've been a fan of online comics for a long time and I still read on desktop rather than on mobile. I only use mobile for checking comic updates when I'm out of town. I can understand why a lot of people use mobile to read comics, but I don't think it will replace desktop reading completely any time soon. Especially since so many creators still prefer the print format.

This is a good reason, because at the end of the day, you have to enjoy ot if you put that much work into something like webcomic.
If you don't enjoy making it in mobile version, then it's best not to.

You can always downsize print res 300 dpi to 72 dpi mobile version later if you ever want to
but you cant upsize from mobile 1000px wide 72 dpi to a nice 300 dpi printable version
so starting with print format is best if you think about it, since conversion can always be done anytime later
the beauty of the internet is that things doesn't go out of stock in the shelf,
once you put it up there, it still can be found years later

I think for a fan of desktop reading, mobile is not something that will replace desktop/laptop reading
All it does is reaching new potential reader who download app like tapastic/webtoon/lezhin etc on their mobile phone

But I gotta admit, your engagement ratio will be higher with those who read it on something that has a real keyboard, than virtual ones on tiny phone :expressionless: