Would it be beneficial to take business classes for artists who want to sell their own work? I'm thinking about taking classes

[randomladyaj]

Even though our work is a labor of love, if we want to make a profit we have to treat it like a product. No?

I ask this because in my former sculpture class I said this and I got dirty looks, but to me it makes sense if one wants to profit off their work. In my opinion anything can be sold with the right initiative. A rock was sold as a pet back in the day and the guy made millions.

What are your thoughts?

[revisionstudios]

You should absolutely invest in business classes if have the means and you're serious about making money off your art. Even if you only take a couple basic ones, just knowing how businesses run on a surface level will help you take things into consideration that you never would have before. I took a few and they were invaluable. It also makes you go out and network with other types of people who could eventually become clients or buyers (sometimes it's hard to break out of the art scene).

There's this weird stigma around creatives (both people inside and outside the field) that if you're not doing it only for yourself or the sake of passion, you're not a "real" artist or you're "selling out". That's a load of bull. Even people who solely do production work to sell and don't feel a huge attachment anymore are still artists, and can be happy doing it. It's not wrong to want to arm yourself with the knowledge on how best to support your creative endeavors. Everyone needs money to pay the bills, and no one should be shamed into being a starving or struggling artist.

[idontevenkn01]

My biggest question is if it's possible to arm yourself with the best knowledge or expose yourself to approaching art as a business without enrolling in some lengthy business course. Surely there has to be some means of discovering this knowledge on your own. Networking seems to be the trickiest part for me as well. Strangely, I don't think I've had as much of a harder time building a base of people who appreciate my art as much as I've had in building a following for my overall brand or identity as an artist. How do I get people to follow me, and not just those singular fan arts/ art pieces I throw out to the world from time to time. It's exhausting business.

[revisionstudios]

Well, with the advent of the internet, you can certainly find the information on your own! I'm sure there are articles or youtube videos. But like learning anything freeform, it's going to take longer because the info isn't organized for you.

I personally just learn better in a classroom setting with interaction, and I like how I can meet other people with similar goals. You don't have to invest in university classes for it--find a cheap community college and learn there if it's in your means. Some places may offer workshops or certificates for it as well, which are just as useful.

As for getting people to follow your brand... don't use fanart. Generally speaking, the people following you for fanart aren't interested in your original work, and vice versa. They are two different markets. If you want people to follow you personally, make yourself the face of your work--start with local events, meet people, and give them a reason to associate you/your brand with your work. Easier said than done of course, but that's what's helped me.

[Devika]

Well I'm in business economics as a minor at uni (taking a break from Valuation of Companies right now haha) so it's biased in that direction.

I've got to say that it's definitely a good thing to know how the world of money works, even on a surface level, because we're all in it. And if you're (planning to be) a one-man-company, even more so! Even if it's only for a small-scale business, you'll be making your life so much easier by already knowing things that you WILL need to figure out on your own eventually - and that your competitors already know. And if you don't figure them out, you'll be struggling a lot more than necessary! To list a couple of things that definitely will come in handy:

• Accounting basics. Know where your money comes from, where it goes, and it helps when paying taxes. Avoid losing money, and make the most of what you get!
• Basics of marketing: Such as finding out who your target group is, and how to reach them most effectively. As an example, this is useful for merchandising - simply pumping out keychains won't help in the long run if your audience simply isn't interested in them and would rather have, say, iPhone covers. Or they're much more into high quality art books and would pay a premium for that. Also, what's the best way of distributing it, and what cost structure makes the most sense? (Now, Marketing consists of so much more, but let's keep it simple here)
• Branding: Knowing your own product and how to manage your brand.
• Business Ethics and Law: Not only to know what you should and can do, but also how to protect your own work!
• Communication: Essential on all levels, but as a self-publisher the communication with your customers/audience/readers is the most vital. What's important here?
• (A bit more abstract, but) Understanding the economy on a larger scale: You're part of it, like a little boat in a huge ocean. The greater economy affects your market, your job prospects, your readers, your customers. Just look at the 2008 crisis for an extreme example. On a less extreme note, understanding the laws and regulations and their changes in your country/state/wherever you live will help you make smarter business decisions.

I'm not saying you need to be a finance wiz! But taking a short class on accounting/bookkeeping and basic marketing for small businesses will definitely help a lot!

Getting dirty looks for wanting to be smart about your money is plain naivete if you ask me.What's the point in making your life harder than it needs to be? Knowledge is power! And saying "I don't want to know about money" is shooting yourself in the foot, frankly. So go for it!

(Just make sure that 1. The class has decent credentials and isn't some sort of get-rich-quick-promise; 2. it's geared towards your scale, and isn't a class about international management of giant conglomerates or whatever. It doesn't need to be for artists specifically though, the basics are the same.)

Edit:

Well, with the advent of the internet, you can certainly find the information on your own! I'm sure there are articles or youtube videos. But like learning anything freeform, it's going to take longer because the info isn't organized for you.

Absolutely a viable option! The trouble here is in one part that you won't have anyone to ask questions or get feedback from, and not knowing what to look for. It's still much better than nothing though!

Oh and have a look at university courses' reading lists! Even if you're not enrolling, you can still look at what books they're reading and borrow them at a library. Some are available in part or whole on google scholar or google books too.

[J.Z.Castillo]

I actually HAVE to take business classes at my school. I am getting a BFA in Illustration and I have to take 1 business management classes, 1 art management class, 1 gallery managing class, and 2 portfolio preparation classes. They teach you how to create and accept contracts and how to price your stuff, it's really REALLY important for artists to know how to do their taxes and how to declare their earnings so the IRS (in the US) doesn't come and grab your ass straight to jail.

[randomladyaj]

@revisionstudios @Devika Thank you so much for your advice. Devika That list is really helpful, because I wouldn't have known where to start!

@mrjonzap See, I didn't learn anything about doing taxes when running your own business in any class that I've ever taken in my life. You're very lucky!

@idontevenkn01 I agree with @revisionstudios You can find information on the internet on your own, which I do. I love that but I get overwhelmed sometimes and the structure of a classroom just helps me stay focused. Also being around like minded people also helps with motivating me to keep with the program and discipline. I personally learn better in a classroom setting too. I also agree that you don't have to invest in a university and can just take a few classes at a community college, or maybe go to a free seminar, or workshop etc. But all in all the information is out there on the web and even the library, just gotta have that discipline if you do the by all means please use the internet (or books) to learn it. Yes building a base is very difficult.

[Devika]

Glad it helped! It's by no means a complete list or anything, but I think those things are useful to know! I have thought many times how these things shouldn't be locked behind a uni degree but be more widely accessible, maybe in high school as extra voluntary classes or something. Because many of us will be active in smaller businesses at some point, or even start our own!

To list a few helpful resources:
http://www.investopedia.com/ This one might seem a bit overwhelming, but the have more basic articles too, on a wide range of topics, and just as important, they explain all kinds of terms, such as ROI, and have very helpful videos for many of them too!

If you want a book to sit down with, Kotler's "Marketing Management" is a heavy tome, and not only for small businesses, but answers a lot of questions you didn't know you had. It's pretty much the book on marketing. Plus, it gives you a bit of structure. It might require some googling of certain terms (perhaps on investopedia), we didn't read it until we had the basics down. The best option would be if you could get it at a library! Here's a preview on google books.

Unfortunately most of the books I had on accounting were in German, and might be limited in distribution...

[Mari]

I'm just going to chime in that taking any kind of class is usually beneficial (unless it's on a subject you already know).
Even if it turns out to be something you might not need in the present it might give you an inspiration/insight for a webcomic/story/whatever in the future.

I used to go to art schools (like, with entrance exams and preliminary assignments and low rate of acceptance kind, not free-to-enroll ) since middle school up until Uni (I major in 3D art and animation so technically still art) and usually the people who will give you shit for wanting to profit from your work are in the free to enroll type of schools :x I ran into couple when I had extra curricular art at a free-to-roll class and it can be super annoying. They'll say shit like "I just have this longing to create!!! I don't care about the money!!" and then you're just there like well I mean I like to draw and shit but man I got medical bills yo. I mean obvi I would still draw even if there was no chance of gaining income that way but anyone who says they don't want to get paid for the hours of work they put in is a liar. Simple as that.

So enroll, read, whatever that makes you succeed in your goals

[Aspie_Gamer]

In the age of social media and the type of marketing involving it, I'd say its beneficial for anyone regardless of what their niche is to learn the ins and outs of online marketing. I know on these forums, the one thing everyone's always griping about is "how do I get more (x) be it subs or views". Part of getting your comic off the ground without a Staff Pick or already having a huge fanbase from Tumblr or what have you is networking with your fellow artists. Particularly people on your level who are also starting out. Some of my most active fans are also creators whos works I followed from finding them in the fresh section one day and the thing is I didn't expect them to check out my comic and follow back after I checked out theirs and subbed if I liked it. Consider it a relationship if you will. By putting on my best social face, I was able to get the readers I currently have even though my art was lackluster compared to my writing for my comic Life of an Aspie

The other thing that can be related back to online marketing is "What am I providing of value?". "What's my niche?" True for any business, part of succeeding as a web cartoonist is knowing the kind of value your comic gives to others that in some cases, would make them want to buy any official merch you offer if it were to come up. And not just that, but also what your comic can offer that no one else can. Going back to my comic, I've found that several people who are either autistic or knew somebody who is have found an affinity for the main lead, Susan Graham. I honestly didn't expect that to happen. I just wanted to write a good story where the main lead happens to have Asperger's after seeing a lack of it being represented in anime and manga. (And off topic for a moment, but yes, I've since heard of "With The Light".)

[animeatru]

no,

--my name is animeatru, and what i can tell you from taking some art classes in college, look you need to learn digital drawing art and regular drawing, them assholes dont teach you that in college , i had to go on deviantart and read books to learn that myself, so

--i suggest you hit the pavement and look for art clients and work on a portfolio, and then apply for art jobs, fuck going to school for it, they dont teach you anything you need to know, like how to draw without looking at something, like look, go to the book store and then teach your self how to draw, look for clients, work on portfolio, and apply for art jobs, the art jobs dont care about education, they care about talent and digital art shit, pay attention because this apply to you, change your major to accounting or writing, thats what office jobs look for, you need to adapt to the times, forget about going to school for art, art is a business, but nobody cares if you go to school, go to school for office shit, office shit, or medical shit, hope it helps

[LCT_m_a_d]

I bought and read a lot of business e-books that fit my business style. From personal experience it definitely helped a lot with my freelancing and understanding little things. I didn't take any formal business courses per-say but I do infact recommend investing in learning business in its own right and continuously

[Alyssa]

I know so many people who have had the same experience as you! I find fine arts culture (painting, sculpting, drawing, etc.) often have an anti-commerce perspective, while design culture (illustration, graphic design, etc.) tend to have a far more business perspective. There are exceptions for both, of course. As it was mentioned, some smart art schools make this sort of thing required. Marketing, public speaking, accounting, branding, and law (contracts and copyright specifically) are all topics I wish my school taught - we didn't have ONE business class, and boy was I sore about that. Luckily I had a marketing major before art school, but I still got so frustrated when my classmates struggled. And I would have LOVED to learn many of those things through an artists perspective.

I went to a workshop and met this lawyer, Katie, who lives in Portland and she was AMAZING at teaching the dryer stuff for artists. Look on her website, as I believe she does workshops at conventions and things. The Right Brain Business Plan is another resource to look into, as it too goes into budgeting, business, and numbers but through an artists perspective. There are also several online courses for artists in business, but they cost $$$! Drawn and Drafted Art Business Bootcamp was one such course I bought (affiliated with Kyle T. Webster, that guy who does the amazing Photoshop brushes), but I haven't had a chance to go through it all yet. Looks good though, if you have some money to spend! There are so many free resources out there too, they just aren't wrapped up in a convenient little package for you. Finally, this book is important if you are freelancing and such, as it goes into contracts and pricing, and I reference it every time I take a new job or to get an idea of what to expect as an artist.

This might not be what you're looking for, but they've helped me out. And you are so right, selling a rock is brilliant! Selling what people want isn't selling out (unless it's destroying your soul), but many artists still don't understand that.

[IdiotWithPencil]

it would be beneficial for life in general so yes take them

[Jenny-Toons]

@ratique -- I think a new thread needs to be made. This one's 3 years old so it ought to be closed.

[DarJodo]

This one was spending likes on the posts of long-time forumgoers.

[ratique]

Spam account removed, will close the post.

[ratique]